The lost sinner is a girl and in new game plus when you kill the lost sinner you get the old witches soul which is the witch of izalith and the rotten drops old dead ones soul gravelord nito the dukes dear freja drops pale drake soul seath the scaleless and old iron king drops old king soul probably gwyns or four kings
You place the Lord Souls into the Lord vessel to unlock the gate to Gwyn. I imagine the reason for the King venturing to the land of giants was to claim the lord vessel which contained these souls (Yes you still have the souls on your person gameplay wise but we visually see the chosen undead placing the souls into the lord vessel. These souls keep on chugging along through history and seem to have a destined fate or will(as all those who own these souls end up in a similar manner)(people have already brought up the whole Cycle jazz).
The lord vessel thus would be the "prize" the giants seek to reclaim, we see the shattered remnants of the vessel in the manor in Majula.
I'm more interested in what the deal with the Emerald gal is. Does she say anything interesting when you kill the ancient dragon at all?.
Also whats the deal with Majula? it must have a history or importance similar to the nexus. It just has that sense.
I went back to the Throne after wrapping up optional stuff like:
Boss spoilers
The dragon- I died soooo many times from that damn flying attack. I almost killed him 5 times and EVERY run ended as soon as he took to the air. Every time I died it was from that move. I could avoid instant death maybe 1 in 13 times when he did it by blind luck. Once I even refused to try and run as I was resigned to my fate and he missed me... Finally had a run where he didn't even do it and killed him easy. I poked his right arm, avoided the swipe, poked his left foot, avoided the stomp and repeated. That easy. He didn't even rear up and flame at all.
I would have been fine if he did. I'm fine with all his moves except the "flap, jump, FIRE EVERYWHERE YOU DIED" move. I went in naked with a stamina shield on my back, I ran for his tail the moment I knew he was gonna nuke me and 85% of the time I was already dead. The rest of the time I guess he forgot to track me and I ended up like 20 feet away from his ass end. Then he would prompty fly again as soon as I got under him again and I died 100% of the time. I tried no fewer than 50 times to kill that thing in the last 24 hours, 7 of them consisted of me entering the fight and he instantly jumping up and one shotting me even though I ran straight for him the exact same way as the other runs which always makes him use his forward flame attack. I think his AI is bugged. Like his default mode is "flying one shot nuke attack" and any other attacks are like 10% chance of occuring.
As in I can be wedged between his toes and he will either try to stomp me (the logical attack) or spam flying death attack (90% of the time). I can attack his front leg, and sometimes he will swat me with it (logical). Sometimes he will try and hit me with his OTHER front leg...which I'm nowhere near (illogical). 7/10 times he will fly up and kill me.
And rather than use his belly burn attack when I'm directing under him but not humping a particular limb...you guessed it he flies up and kills you.
I think I managed to avoid it entirely during my miracle run be twiddling the stick around in small movements when I was between attacks and dodges near his feet. As in, I would attack his arm, dodge, attack his foot, make small movements like I'm humping his leg as my stamina regens, this caused him to stomp rather than fly, repeat. Simply standing near his limb no matter the position or proximity usually resulted in flying death. Pretending to be scurrying about seems to work.
Vendrick - So easy...like Allant easy I probably didn't need all 5 giant souls since I literally just walked behind him and beat him to death the whole fight. I had read nothing but nonsense about it taking 30 min to kill him, and he will one shot you with each hit. It took maybe 7 minutes and the 2 times he did manage to hit me they weren't too bad. Mastodon Halberd + 10 just wrecks everything.
Darklurker - It was my second try and I was REALLY concerned that I might use up my remaining 30 or so effigies on this bastard considering how bad the first run when. I got lucky with firestorm when they split and killed them both ^_^
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Anyways, Shanalotte was standing there this time when I opened the King door so I learned all she had to say in one final bit of plot exposition.
It wasn't much. Basically that she was created by men trying to deny fate, and that they failed when she didn't turn out the way they wanted and so they still got cursed. She is made from, or was raised by, dragons. I assume Aldia and Vendrick's experiments with souls and transmutation created her for the purpose of...who the fuck knows?
She also said that Nashandra was waiting to beat our asses for challenging her rule. No shit.
Nashandra was an awesome final boss though, at least in comparison to the previous two.
I summoned both npcs and even knew going in that the thingys around her were to be dealt with or avoided asap. They died pretty fast and I got cursed repeatedly, but prevailed on the first try. Next time I'll definitely pick up that cursebite ring..
Ending spoilers
The ending...sucked.
It really sucked.
It is what I would call the bad ending if there were a choice, because who in the hell would choose that?
Knowing that it is meaningless? I assume that you link the fires again, but it isn't shown. No serpents either. You just walk on the backs of some golems over to the little room with the stone throne. You sit on it, the doors close. Leaving you sitting in a tiny room way under the castle, in the dark.
*roll credits*
I mean seriously...what the fuck was the point of this game? If you hadn't been down on the plot and lore of the previous game you would NOT KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT LINKING THE FIRES!
Bonfires are barely even a thing in this game, the lord souls hardly mentioned.
Its just "hey you might want to go to Drangleic, cause...reasons."
Then "oh look another undead, here is your free res. Everybody gets one."
"Are you the next king? Here is your Estus. Everybody gets one. Right Spiderman?" *nods*
"Seek out souls, and the king." (or collect over 1,000,000 mob souls to open the Shrine of Winter anyways)
You get to the castle and Nashandra (who we haven't heard of at all beforehand) says "I'm ruler here, the king left, find him if you want."
You grab the King's ring and Shanalotte says "if you want to be the next king you will probably want to head east, without ever knowing why."
You get to the Dragon Eyrie and she says "go see the Dragon for...reasons."
You fight your way past several dragons and smash many of their eggs which you are never even told why they exist in the first place.
Dragon says "about time you got here. take this. have fun figuring out what the hell it is or why you need it without consulting the internet.
You enter the memories of a few trees, possibly alter the past, pick up the "giant's friendship" for...killing their leader...in a memory...yeah whatever.
This lets you activate some golems to use as stepping stones over a small ravine so you can...sit on a stone chair alone in the dark after killing the queen. Said queen apparently didn't need the giant's friendship, or even chose to sit on that throne as she had a perfectly good one above ground.
The end.
THE OPENING CUTSCENE OF DARK SOULS ONE HAD A BETTER PLOT THAN THIS SEQUEL!
Gwynevere can't fight. The strength of a being's soul is directly correlated to their strength.
I already mentioned this in the original post, but Old Dragonslayer is Ornstein after having been corrupted by the Abyss. How he encountered the Abyss is explained near the end of the game (and is in that spoiler in my first post)
Your whole theory is based on the idea that Drangleic isn't Lordran, which IMO is disproven by dialogue with Straid.
Also plenty of strong beings don't drop their souls, was Kalameet weak?
Aiddon said:
Why do the Silver Knights (who ARE illusions) drop souls? It is definitely an interesting topic for debate though. What really interests me is why the Old Dragonslayer is shooting darkness instead of lightning.
Ok so here's my thoughts if it actually is faked. Old Dragonslayer in DkS2 is the REAL Ornstein after Gwyn took HIS actual soul and gave it to the illusion (Ornstein in DkS1). Therefore losing his sunlight powers and being corrupted by the abyss and becoming hollow (either by some failure on his part when fighting it or a punishment cause he directly disobeyed Gwyn) and he either learned the powers of darkness or possibly rose from a low position to one of the highest in all of Lordran and got his dark powers replaced by light and sun. Although the Old Dragonslayer in DkS2 doesnt have his soul its still the shell of the actual Ornstein. But if it isnt faked Ornstein just went mad depressed and became hollow after his masters and Smough fell and decided to reside in a palace from his past (cathedral of blue) and became more and more deprived, finally being released in DkS2. But I dont know, nothing can be confirmed from what ive gathered, FROM just pulls legs..
I have a theory about the boss The Lost Sinner. Could it be possible that he is actually Artorias? He wields a greatsword, he does crazy acrobatics, I could be wrong (as I never got to play the abyss dlc in dark souls 1) but Artorias did succumb to insanity in the abyss did he not? Maybe he escaped and was imprisoned on the Sinner's Rise? The bug crawling into his eye doesn't make any sense but I think it's a possibility.
Notice how the bug that crawls into her eye looks a lot like the Bed of Chaos? And how in NG+ she is helped by pyromancers and drops the Old Witch Soul?
The Lost Sinner is a reincarnation of The Witch of Izalith, or at least is in possession of her soul.
Really awesome speculation so far! I have just one question for you guys, since you seem to be a lot more knowledgeable about the overall lore than I am.
There's a lot of talk about the Giants, who they are or might have been, and where they came from. I notice that no one seems to have linked this to the "Tomb of Giants" area in Dark Souls, in the Catacombs down in Nito's realm. Any thoughts on how that might tie together? Or do you think the name is just coincidentally similar? (I have my doubts about that, considering how meticulous everything else is laid out.)
I'm also surprised that there's been no link to Hawkeye Gough or the other giant blacksmith dude in Anor Londo.
Notice how both the Giant Blacksmith and Gough wear masks/helms that cover their entire face? It is entirely possible that their faces look like the Giant faces from DKS 2.
Okay so I beat the game 2 days after it came out and i'm on my second playthrough but this one i'm exploring everything.. From what i've gathered all of the great souls you acquire are reincarnations of the foul bosses in dark souls one.. The lost sinner actually inherited the Izalith soul... Freja is DEFINITELY Seathe reincarnate.. I'm pretty sure the rotton is Nito and The Iron King I can't really think of who he could be.. I know for a fact that The queen is the remains of Manus.. She came across the see and she is actually what the giants were after... I need to read more descriptions on items and what not but that's what i've come up with.. Not very good at describing stuff I usually just read the forums but i've managed to piece a lot of stuff together... Never thought about Solaire though.. If you look closely at the king of the giants though he has the same crown as Gwyn, I find that kind of interesting also.. His sword is not as awesome as gwyns though.. But when I hear land of the giants I think of anor lando.. I'm just trying to figure out how the lost sinner obtained the witch of izaliths soul.. Aldia is also an interesting character, I for some reason think of big hat logan but who the hell knows this game is like crack I want the third to come out... This games story put into a movie saga would pooh all over lord of the rings though.. Thanks for all the posts it's a joy to read hope to hear more from you all.. If you took the time to read this, hope it helps.. Forgive my spelling.
In the Mansion in Majula, there are fragments of what appears to be the Lordvessel from the first game. I, and others, speculate that one of the reasons the War with the Giants started was because Nashandra convinced Vendrick to steal the Lordvessel from the Land of the Giants (presumably where Lordran was), and break it in Drangleic, unleashing the Four Great Souls into the world.
Nashandra's motivation for all this... a little hazy to me as I am still on NG (My gf is on NG+)
I can't really disagree with your examples, but they weren't the primary focus to begin with. Defeating Manus is pretty much the main reason I say the Chosen Undead is the strongest; especially since Manus had already subjugated figures that were legendary for their ability such as Artorias.
Makes sense. Though if the whole "Humanity is actually a fragment of the Dark Soul" theory is correct, then the Dark Soul which Manus holds is actually the most fragmented Lord Soul of all, dispersed among all humans (and nasty rats that feed on humans, haha).
Also assumes that Manus is the Furtive Pygmy, which some people dispute.
I guess that Artorias was relatively easy to corrupt because he was not human, but a knight of Gwyn, who are all presumably fashioned from either Gwyn's power or shards of his own soul.
Heide's Tower of Flame cannot be the remnants of Anor Londo. To reference VaatiVidya: The architecture and colour scheme is somewhat different, it is reminiscent because it is possible that this is where the real Gwynevere fled to with her husband Flann, the god of war, after having enough of Lordran and her father, settling in what was to become Drangleic and creating a city, Heide, that is reminiscent of her old city.
I can't really disagree with your examples, but they weren't the primary focus to begin with. Defeating Manus is pretty much the main reason I say the Chosen Undead is the strongest; especially since Manus had already subjugated figures that were legendary for their ability such as Artorias.
Makes sense. Though if the whole "Humanity is actually a fragment of the Dark Soul" theory is correct, then the Dark Soul which Manus holds is actually the most fragmented Lord Soul of all, dispersed among all humans (and nasty rats that feed on humans, haha).
Also assumes that Manus is the Furtive Pygmy, which some people dispute.
I guess that Artorias was relatively easy to corrupt because he was not human, but a knight of Gwyn, who are all presumably fashioned from either Gwyn's power or shards of his own soul.
Why is it presumed that the knights of Gwyn aren't people? I mean yeah, all of the knights of Gwyn have pieces of Gwyn's soul, but that doesn't automatically mean that they're golums. Gwyn did just give away pieces of his soul to people who he thought were worthy, like the 4 Kings of New Londo, and his children, so it's completely possible that he would give pieces of his soul to his elite knights. The knights of Gwyn also definitely wouldn't have been human, since Gwyn, his children, and all the other people in Anor Londo weren't human, but the fact that they aren't human doesn't mean that they aren't people.
Heide's Tower of Flame cannot be the remnants of Anor Londo. To reference VaatiVidya: The architecture and colour scheme is somewhat different, it is reminiscent because it is possible that this is where the real Gwynevere fled to with her husband Flann, the god of war, after having enough of Lordran and her father, settling in what was to become Drangleic and creating a city, Heide, that is reminiscent of her old city.
Heide's Tower of Flame cannot be the remnants of Anor Londo. To reference VaatiVidya: The architecture and colour scheme is somewhat different, it is reminiscent because it is possible that this is where the real Gwynevere fled to with her husband Flann, the god of war, after having enough of Lordran and her father, settling in what was to become Drangleic and creating a city, Heide, that is reminiscent of her old city.
Great discussion but what bothers me I guess is why Vendrick husk is as tall as the giants? Wasn't he a human? Why is he so big?
Also the undead asylums like the Undead Asylum in DS1 and Lost Bastille in DS2 are on whole different islands/land/what ever... because like in the first game the crow takes you there and back.
In all honesty though I find the story in this game really confusing so far, and if I dare to say not very planned out... hopefully when all the three dlc release we will have a better idea.
What do you guys think about the new dlcs, they are about some 3 lost crowns, maybe those who hold the crowns are replicas of the 4 kings from the first game? I don't know... but the first dlc is about a city buried underground, just like the flooded Londo. I don't know I'm going on a stretch here really. Any thoughts?
Great discussion but what bothers me I guess is why Vendrick husk is as tall as the giants? Wasn't he a human? Why is he so big?
Also the undead asylums like the Undead Asylum in DS1 and Lost Bastille in DS2 are on whole different islands/land/what ever... because like in the first game the crow takes you there and back.
In all honesty though I find the story in this game really confusing so far, and if I dare to say not very planned out... hopefully when all the three dlc release we will have a better idea.
What do you guys think about the new dlcs, they are about some 3 lost crowns, maybe those who hold the crowns are replicas of the 4 kings from the first game? I don't know... but the first dlc is about a city buried underground, just like the flooded Londo. I don't know I'm going on a stretch here really. Any thoughts?
Come to think of it, we're never strictly told that Vendrick is human. We know that he's an undead, since he goes hollow, and it's assumed that only humans can become undead, but that may or may not be accurate. In Dark Souls 1 Seathe is described as a "true undead" by Big Hat Logan, and we know that Seathe was driven to madness so it's possible that Seathe actually went mad due to hollowing, which would imply that creatures other than humans are susceptible to the undead curse.
If that's actually true than Vendrick may not be a human at all. After all, his throne room in Drangleic castle clearly looks to be built for someone gigantic, as do the King's Doors, which shows that Vendrick as been his size for at least as long as his castle stands, so probably since the creation of the Kingdom of Drangliec.
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