Dark Souls 3 story discussion (spoilers obviously)

[EvilRoy]

I haven't finished the game yet, but I feel the need to take a moment and ***** about the architecture in Anor Londo. The shifting spiral elevator was always hugely impractical, but they broke the fucking walk up off! You can see buttresses supporting nothing! Its like some asshole just decided to take the sims demolish tool and just blow up chunks of the castle and throw residential down.

Do we know what NPC is most likely to have acted as the city engineer for Anor Londo? Cause I kind of want to take words with them.

Well, Pontiff Sulyvahn was running the show in Anor Londo but you probably killed him already, so not much use in blaming him, lol.

There is no excuse for poor architecture He had it coming. And the giant died! I loved that guy!

 

[Mahorfeus]

One thing I found interesting was that the Chaos Flame is dying, hence why the demons are slowly going extinct.

But at the same time there is this newer, sinister "Profaned Flame" that was called down to destroy the Profaned Capital. Considering its influence was what apparently drove the Pontiff insane, it is pretty important. History repeating itself again, I suppose? Though this time around it seems like something that might have been caused or influenced by the Abyss. The creatures that called it down were supposedly related to "a certain oracle," and for that matter, Irithyll is not the first frozen kingdom to have a raging inferno underneath it. Granted, I don't think we ever actually get to see the Profaned Flame, assuming that it is still burning.

 

[Silence]

So the one thing I found weird: Basically all the Dark Souls 1 references should have been in 2, not 3.
Because having follow-ups to the legends makes perfect sense.

It's only weird now because you have 2 in the middle without the big connections, while 3 has them more.

I found the endboss cool, and it has nothing to do with Gwyn, aside from musical theme in phase 2. Different weapons and completely different moveset, as well as looks - it's basically the DS1 and 2 protags you are fighting, NOT Gwyn. What is funny about that: Before 2 came out, there was speculation of how cool it would be to fight the protag of 1 at the end of 2. They did not do it - but in 3 they did. I found it cool.

Endings: Normal Ending seems the same as DS1 at first glance, but there are quite important differences - the flame is much weaker. I would this interpret as that this is the last cycle. The dark ending seemed hopeful in comparison - I did it, and I found it awesome.
And then there's the secret ending, which actually shows wtf a dark lord is - also the dark ending and before show what the dark ending is, while in 1 it was so vague I did not even really understand it. 1 did not even really make sense: If it is dark, how can you be lord? These are two different possibilities.

The Chaos Flame dying also fits to the "this is pretty final for now".

I would have liked Cutscenes for Yhorm and Aldrich, and a different fight than Aldrich more - he was pretty underwhelming in presentation, even though I had most trouble with fighting him.

Btw, also interesting: The gods did also fight with the dragons, not only against them - that is new.

Finding NPC questlines was also too hard imo, but DS1 was the same - I hated it there already. In fact, 3 made a lot of faults of 1 obvious: Like how underwhelming DS1 late game is - how vague some things are, which are repeated in 3 (if you like or do not like that is taste), but it explains them so much better.

 

[Fappy]

I found the endboss cool, and it has nothing to do with Gwyn, aside from musical theme in phase 2. Different weapons and completely different moveset, as well as looks - it's basically the DS1 and 2 protags you are fighting, NOT Gwyn.

Soul of Cinder's phase 2 is supposed to be the essence of Gwyn. His theme starts playing and he adopts Gwyn's moveset. He has the same melee attack strings, including the lunge attack and he also uses lightning miracles like Gwyn uses in the opening cutscene for DS1. He also doesn't change fighting styles for the rest of the fight when phase 2 starts. It's not Gwyn himself as Gwyn is dead, but it is the part of him that the flame absorbed when he linked it. Same applies for the chosen undead (and whoever else) you fight in phase 1.

I would have liked Cutscenes for Yhorm and Aldrich, and a different fight than Aldrich more - he was pretty underwhelming in presentation, even though I had most trouble with fighting him.

Yhorm does get a cutscene if you have progressed a certain NPC's questline to a certain point.

 

[Mahorfeus]

I would have liked Cutscenes for Yhorm and Aldrich, and a different fight than Aldrich more - he was pretty underwhelming in presentation, even though I had most trouble with fighting him.

I don't know, I personally thought that Aldrich's presentation was excellent. The game builds you up to expect an encounter with the "Saint of the Deep," but in one of the series' more blatant plot twists, you're instead pitted against the "Devourer of Gods." He might just be my favorite new boss of the series.

I agree about the cutscenes, and kind of wish more of the bosses talked, though. Lothric was cryptic, while Oceiros was just plain unnerving. Lots of lore implications, in both cases.

 

[Silence]

I found the endboss cool, and it has nothing to do with Gwyn, aside from musical theme in phase 2. Different weapons and completely different moveset, as well as looks - it's basically the DS1 and 2 protags you are fighting, NOT Gwyn.

Soul of Cinder's phase 2 is supposed to be the essence of Gwyn. His theme starts playing and he adopts Gwyn's moveset. He has the same melee attack strings, including the lunge attack and he also uses lightning miracles like Gwyn uses in the opening cutscene for DS1. He also doesn't change fighting styles for the rest of the fight when phase 2 starts. It's not Gwyn himself as Gwyn is dead, but it is the part of him that the flame absorbed when he linked it. Same applies for the chosen undead (and whoever else) you fight in phase 1.

Still kind of what I meant - it's the soul, not Gwyn.
And when I fought phase 2 the soul did the fire explosion thing a lot, so I never got the impression it's copy paste of Gwyn (which it obviously is not, even though it takes the moveset and stuff deliberately).

I would have liked Cutscenes for Yhorm and Aldrich, and a different fight than Aldrich more - he was pretty underwhelming in presentation, even though I had most trouble with fighting him.

Yhorm does get a cutscene if you have progressed a certain NPC's questline to a certain point.[/quote]

Huh ... well, shows what I missed by not looking things up (I'm repeating the game now, one time with new character, one time in NG+, so I should be able to find that at least).

 

[Fappy]

Huh ... well, shows what I missed by not looking things up (I'm repeating the game now, one time with new character, one time in NG+, so I should be able to find that at least).

The cutscene (and resolution of the NPC's questline) is pretty awesome too. Make sure you don't miss it!

Adds a lot to Yhorm as a character.

 

[omega 616]

I know this is off topic but I didn't want to make a thread asking one question but it dark souls story related.

You as the protagonist, did you die and then get revived in a place like hell? You die in hell and you just respawn in hell kind of thing or what? From what I am seeing and know, in this world people seem to die and it's like "Frank died? Aw, hows he doing? I will have to go and speak to him, make sure he's ok", maybe that's 'cos bonfires respawn enemies nearly 100% of the time.

I am a total noob, I am playing through DS1 for the first time and struggling, despite watching northernlion, epicnamebro, looking at wiki's etc (I just cheesed the fuck out of the capra demon by throwing dung pie's over the fog barrier). After all my watching this isn't explained.

 

[Silence]

So, could Aldrich and the Deep Sea thing be a metaphor for Lordran/Lothric literally sinking into Ash Lake/the Deep Sea, which was peaceful at first (Ash Lake) but then more and more monsters got thrown down there and it got to be a place of horrors?

Food for thought.

Also @Dirty Cop James funs: thought of that, so I am gonna mention him because I don't have a reddit account to post that thought and steal the idea completely.

 

[Willinium]

So the one thing I found weird: Basically all the Dark Souls 1 references should have been in 2, not 3.
Because having follow-ups to the legends makes perfect sense.

It's only weird now because you have 2 in the middle without the big connections, while 3 has them more.

I found the endboss cool, and it has nothing to do with Gwyn, aside from musical theme in phase 2. Different weapons and completely different moveset, as well as looks - it's basically the DS1 and 2 protags you are fighting, NOT Gwyn. What is funny about that: Before 2 came out, there was speculation of how cool it would be to fight the protag of 1 at the end of 2. They did not do it - but in 3 they did. I found it cool.

Endings: Normal Ending seems the same as DS1 at first glance, but there are quite important differences - the flame is much weaker. I would this interpret as that this is the last cycle. The dark ending seemed hopeful in comparison - I did it, and I found it awesome.
And then there's the secret ending, which actually shows wtf a dark lord is - also the dark ending and before show what the dark ending is, while in 1 it was so vague I did not even really understand it. 1 did not even really make sense: If it is dark, how can you be lord? These are two different possibilities.

The Chaos Flame dying also fits to the "this is pretty final for now".

I would have liked Cutscenes for Yhorm and Aldrich, and a different fight than Aldrich more - he was pretty underwhelming in presentation, even though I had most trouble with fighting him.

Btw, also interesting: The gods did also fight with the dragons, not only against them - that is new.

Finding NPC questlines was also too hard imo, but DS1 was the same - I hated it there already. In fact, 3 made a lot of faults of 1 obvious: Like how underwhelming DS1 late game is - how vague some things are, which are repeated in 3 (if you like or do not like that is taste), but it explains them so much better.

I would like to note that I think there is a reason that there arn't all that many references to Dark Souls 2 lore. King Vendrick never light the fire and since the land of Dark Souls 3 is a amalgamation of the lands that did light the fires (note I am unsure of the Catacombs but considering what lies beneath them I can let it lie). Since King Vendrick never lit the fire nor claimed the Throne of Want Drangleic isn't only mentioned in passing and in the barest of Item descriptions.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

I would like to note that I think there is a reason that there arn't all that many references to Dark Souls 2 lore. King Vendrick never light the fire and since the land of Dark Souls 3 is a amalgamation of the lands that did light the fires (note I am unsure of the Catacombs but considering what lies beneath them I can let it lie). Since King Vendrick never lit the fire nor claimed the Throne of Want Drangleic isn't only mentioned in passing and in the barest of Item descriptions.

Not to mention that given the proximity of Drangleic to Lordran (appears to be pretty far, at least), it's not that far-fetched to not see too many references to shit that went on in Lordran/Lothric. The most important thing for me to come from Dark Souls 2 to 3 is that hollowing no longer afflicts undead without a dark sigil, leading me to believe the player character found a way to prevent hollowing altogether (apparently the DLC for 2 hints at this; I never played it, so iunno). But other than that, Dark Souls 2 is rather self-contained as its own story.

 

[Samechiel]

You as the protagonist, did you die and then get revived in a place like hell?

In DS1? No, you're a bearer of the Curse of Undeath. Your souls and humanity are being siphoned out by the First Flame to keep itself burning, causing you to become a soul-hungry zombie. As such, when your affliction was discovered you were picked up and thrown in an asylum -until you escape and make your way to Lordran in the hopes of finding a cure. Lordran is the throne of the gods, basically, and time/space are a little wonky there.

 

[Willinium]

I would like to note that I think there is a reason that there arn't all that many references to Dark Souls 2 lore. King Vendrick never light the fire and since the land of Dark Souls 3 is a amalgamation of the lands that did light the fires (note I am unsure of the Catacombs but considering what lies beneath them I can let it lie). Since King Vendrick never lit the fire nor claimed the Throne of Want Drangleic isn't only mentioned in passing and in the barest of Item descriptions.

Not to mention that given the proximity of Drangleic to Lordran (appears to be pretty far, at least), it's not that far-fetched to not see too many references to shit that went on in Lordran/Lothric. The most important thing for me to come from Dark Souls 2 to 3 is that hollowing no longer afflicts undead without a dark sigil, leading me to believe the player character found a way to prevent hollowing altogether (apparently the DLC for 2 hints at this; I never played it, so iunno). But other than that, Dark Souls 2 is rather self-contained as its own story.

Speaking of distance that does intrigue me a bit, as far as I know there is no known map of the world of Dark Souls and the fact that we learn of so many nations and people is fascinating. The Giants for example seem to be from a land across the sea from Drangleic and yet we also see them in Alor Londo and the Cathedral of the Deep. And their appears to be differences for every species split in twain, the lords and the rest of the races. The Giant Lord and the Giants, The Lords and the Humans subsects of two different species. Whether Yhorm is a proper Giant or not, Eyes and all, is something else entirely. I wonder what the World of Dark Souls, does the world have a name?, looks like does it look like ours or . . . ?

 

[Sleepy Sol]

Speaking of distance that does intrigue me a bit, as far as I know there is no known map of the world of Dark Souls and the fact that we learn of so many nations and people is fascinating. The Giants for example seem to be from a land across the sea from Drangleic and yet we also see them in Alor Londo and the Cathedral of the Deep. And their appears to be differences for every species split in twain, the lords and the rest of the races. The Giant Lord and the Giants, The Lords and the Humans subsects of two different species. Whether Yhorm is a proper Giant or not, Eyes and all, is something else entirely. I wonder what the World of Dark Souls, does the world have a name?, looks like does it look like ours or . . . ?

Yeah, I am kinda bummed that we're not likely to ever get an explanation for the existence of currently existing or long-passed kingdoms in the Dark Souls universe. Stuff like you said, with the split between the two different kinds of giants (the ones common in 2 and the ones that more commonly appear in 1 and 3), but also the state of nations like Astora and Catarina. We get answers in text or through the mere existence of certain characters that seem to elaborate on the state of those places, but are likely never going to get a game where we travel to them.

 

[Willinium]

Speaking of distance that does intrigue me a bit, as far as I know there is no known map of the world of Dark Souls and the fact that we learn of so many nations and people is fascinating. The Giants for example seem to be from a land across the sea from Drangleic and yet we also see them in Alor Londo and the Cathedral of the Deep. And their appears to be differences for every species split in twain, the lords and the rest of the races. The Giant Lord and the Giants, The Lords and the Humans subsects of two different species. Whether Yhorm is a proper Giant or not, Eyes and all, is something else entirely. I wonder what the World of Dark Souls, does the world have a name?, looks like does it look like ours or . . . ?

Yeah, I am kinda bummed that we're not likely to ever get an explanation for the existence of currently existing or long-passed kingdoms in the Dark Souls universe. Stuff like you said, with the split between the two different kinds of giants (the ones common in 2 and the ones that more commonly appear in 1 and 3), but also the state of nations like Astora and Catarina. We get answers in text or through the mere existence of certain characters that seem to elaborate on the state of those places, but are likely never going to get a game where we travel to them.

There is a reason why I wanted a codex of sorts for the enemies we face in Dark Souls. I would love to know the backstories of all of our enemies from the Beast men of the Swamp, to the Gargoyles, and all our favorite enemies. Dark Souls 2 showed us more of the backstory with its enemies we know the how and why of the Allonde Knights and the Ironclad soldiers. We KNOW the backstory of the Duel-Greatshielders in the Catacombs. We KNOW the story of King Vendrick and his brother. What we lack in Dark Souls 2 are the stories of our less then major foes. I would also LOVE info on the nations as well. How am I to rule Londor if I know nothing of its people or traditions. All I know is that they are worshippers of the Dark and seek to bring an end to the Age of Fire to bring about the Age of Dark/Men . This nation of Hollow's choose US as their Lord and yet we know little of them.

 

[Souplex]

I think it should be noted that Siegward (he has a name, people! D is an entirely different individual than Siegmeyer. While the existence of Catarina in this timeline itself is weird, the character's presence, not necessarily so. Given his relationship to Yhorm however, we can definitely surmise that they aren't the same person. But the fact that Catarina exists at all in another Lord of Cinder's cycle is kind of odd, and like many things, contradicts Dark Souls II. Though Drangleic was just plain weird in many respects, so that might not be saying much.

Well the reason people from various eras are around this time is simply because the dead from various eras are rising.

Lore-wise this one seems the most straight-forward.
Gameplay wise I don't like it as much as 1. It seems to have taken a lot of cues from bloodborne with blocking being very ineffective, everything hitting harder and having less HP, and poise being much less of a factor.

 

[omega 616]

You as the protagonist, did you die and then get revived in a place like hell?

In DS1? No, you're a bearer of the Curse of Undeath. Your souls and humanity are being siphoned out by the First Flame to keep itself burning, causing you to become a soul-hungry zombie. As such, when your affliction was discovered you were picked up and thrown in an asylum -until you escape and make your way to Lordran in the hopes of finding a cure. Lordran is the throne of the gods, basically, and time/space are a little wonky there.

I mean where does this place exist? Is your mother in this world or is this the after life or what?

 

[EvilRoy]

You as the protagonist, did you die and then get revived in a place like hell?

In DS1? No, you're a bearer of the Curse of Undeath. Your souls and humanity are being siphoned out by the First Flame to keep itself burning, causing you to become a soul-hungry zombie. As such, when your affliction was discovered you were picked up and thrown in an asylum -until you escape and make your way to Lordran in the hopes of finding a cure. Lordran is the throne of the gods, basically, and time/space are a little wonky there.

I mean where does this place exist? Is your mother in this world or is this the after life or what?

Based on shit that happens in DS1 and convos between characters, the world of DS1 is attached to the real world, but in the region of the game proper there is some kind of warping that allows different worlds to cross over briefly with each other (summoning/invasions). Basically the undead asylum is geographically accessible by the surrounding nations, but you are ferried from the asylum to firelink which is more remote, but still accessible. We know it is still accessible because onionbro's daughter is able to travel to the game world to talk to him, and then presumably return home.

You got found out as undead, then dumped in the asylum, then carried by crow to the main game world by crow.