Dark Souls PvP - The original vs the sequel and why I'm pretty disappointed

[lapan]

90% of the weapons in DS1 were unviable.

I'm purely speaking from a PvE perspective, you could make pretty much everything viable.

If that is your idea of good gameplay we have very little common ground to tread on

It's my idea of having fun.

Just using the optimal everything makes for boring gameplay for me.

I was only ever speaking about personal preference anyways, your milage may vary

 

[Riotguards]

i prefer DK1 in every aspect except combat

combat in DK2 is slightly better in that you can now duel wield and powerstance

DK1 just felt fairer all around when it came to weapon choice, bigger weapons did more damage in backstabs because they have the stats, none of this BS where a dagger will OHK in a parry / backstab

some weapons were unreliable but that's also the case in DK2 but more weapons are much more unviable

for instance a majority of slow bulky weapons are just unviable against faster weapons which doesn't help when the DPS is higher as well

for example i was rocking a powerstance pursuer build at around 45% equip burden, i would win against sorcerers and anyone who just didn't know how to roll

however when it came to long swords or hell even a dagger i had to resort to trying to get the lucky hit in, it was a fact of either swinging too early and they could easily dodge or swing slightly late and they get a free shot on me

it doesn't help that because poise no longer works properly my attack is stopped (and this is rocking 30+ equip burden


the biggest problem i have is how they utterly destroyed armor in this game

 

[default]

Just a bit of an update. I had the day off today and played Dark Souls 2 PvP for quite a few hours, and I did actually have a lot of fun. I went into it and promised myself I wouldn't compare it to DS1 at all, and as its own game it was actually quite enjoyable. Sometimes you need to roll with the punches (the current meta) and adapt. That being said, it's never going to stand up to DS1 PvP in my mind for the reasons above, but when played for what it is it can be quite enjoyable... Until you come up against some level 700 Havel mage with a lightning buffed halberd, fuck that shit.

 

[joest01]

Just a bit of an update. I had the day off today and played Dark Souls 2 PvP for quite a few hours, and I did actually have a lot of fun. I went into it and promised myself I wouldn't compare it to DS1 at all, and as its own game it was actually quite enjoyable. Sometimes you need to roll with the punches (the current meta) and adapt. That being said, it's never going to stand up to DS1 PvP in my mind for the reasons above, but when played for what it is it can be quite enjoyable... Until you come up against some level 700 Havel mage with a lightning buffed halberd, fuck that shit.

I hear you on that one.
Profound still is your friend.
And shield break.

 

[Demonchaser27]

I like the combat in Dark Souls 2, except for 2 things.

1. You can't combo from heavy attacks into light attacks anymore.

2. You can't dead angle.

I feel like these two things in dark souls 1 separated the more hardcore players from the more casual players. The hardcore PvPers knew how to take advantage of the full capabilities of their weapons, whereas people who were just playing PvE mostly didn't know to properly use many of these techniques since they aren't super useful against AI.

Hell I'd add that the movesets were more unique on weapons in Dark Souls 1 as well. There were some replications of moves in DS 1 but literally every axe in Dark Souls 2 has almost the exact same 3-4 attacks and no unique moves. That makes weapons feel impersonal. Most weapons felt like you got to know them, like they were they're own little class in the game. I liked it. In Dark Souls 2 that seems to be only amongst actual weapon class names, not actual weapons.

 

[gigastar]

Well my main problems with DS2 lie with Poise (or lack thereof) and Soul Memory. Not that i need to explain why at this point.

 

[Skin]

DkS has the best PvP of the series by far in my opinion.

Demons Souls had a really, really limited number of builds due to how stunningly overpowered a few weapons were, but it also had some good pacing and provided a solid base for Dark Souls. Mechanically, it is a sound and arguably superior game, but the balance is a God damned mess.

Dark Souls comes along, and I might get flack for this, but even pre-patch, it still had alot of variety in builds (since so many things were "OP", it provided some variety). Post-patch, it becomes a arguably more balanced and varied game that caters to people of all skill levels. I have had fun playing this game from a cheesy mid-rolling Falchion spammer, to a fast rolling quality fashion, to a knightmom Tryhard. Of course it is going to suck when you lose and its much easier to blame the game than question your own skill.

Dark Souls 2... It's a mess. The controls feel sloppy, the combat is a boring, the variety in weapon movesets has been completely annihilated and replaced with shitty powerstance (powerstance is just a moveset with varying damage output). The hitboxes are terrible, the lag compensation is terrible, the balance is not even worth discussing and then Soul memory sits atop of this shit mountain mocking everyone.

It simply lacks the longevity that DkS and DeS had. People will get bored and move on because there is only so much you can learn from the game. You will reach a point and won't really get better after that, whereas in DkS you can tell the exact moment where the fight went wrong or the exact thing that you need to improve upon. DkS2 just requires an understanding of spacing and good stamina management, and you will win almost every fight.

I think people like DkS2 PvP because the barrier to entry is much lower. Everyone basically started at the same place since the mechanics were very different and people who couldn't catch a break in DkS were able to compete on some level in DkS2, and it is just more forgiving to stick with DkS2 than crawl back to DkS and expect to get good at it.

 

[joest01]

DkS has the best PvP of the series by far in my opinion.

Demons Souls had a really, really limited number of builds due to how stunningly overpowered a few weapons were, but it also had some good pacing and provided a solid base for Dark Souls. Mechanically, it is a sound and arguably superior game, but the balance is a God damned mess.

Dark Souls comes along, and I might get flack for this, but even pre-patch, it still had alot of variety in builds (since so many things were "OP", it provided some variety). Post-patch, it becomes a arguably more balanced and varied game that caters to people of all skill levels. I have had fun playing this game from a cheesy mid-rolling Falchion spammer, to a fast rolling quality fashion, to a knightmom Tryhard. Of course it is going to suck when you lose and its much easier to blame the game than question your own skill.

Dark Souls 2... It's a mess. The controls feel sloppy, the combat is a boring, the variety in weapon movesets has been completely annihilated and replaced with shitty powerstance (powerstance is just a moveset with varying damage output). The hitboxes are terrible, the lag compensation is terrible, the balance is not even worth discussing and then Soul memory sits atop of this shit mountain mocking everyone.

It simply lacks the longevity that DkS and DeS had. People will get bored and move on because there is only so much you can learn from the game. You will reach a point and won't really get better after that, whereas in DkS you can tell the exact moment where the fight went wrong or the exact thing that you need to improve upon. DkS2 just requires an understanding of spacing and good stamina management, and you will win almost every fight.

I think people like DkS2 PvP because the barrier to entry is much lower. Everyone basically started at the same place since the mechanics were very different and people who couldn't catch a break in DkS were able to compete on some level in DkS2, and it is just more forgiving to stick with DkS2 than crawl back to DkS and expect to get good at it.

There were issues in Demon's but until they got patched we just put rules down and banned dual Uchi's or cursed DBS or whatever the problem was at the time. And the game made it possible to engage in tournaments like that.

I think it wouldn't be too hard for them to introduce a hosting mechanic for covenants with rules and requirements. Problem fixed.

And the next time I hear about broken hit boxes I will jump attack through the screen. Learn to roll.

 

[default]

DkS has the best PvP of the series by far in my opinion.

Demons Souls had a really, really limited number of builds due to how stunningly overpowered a few weapons were, but it also had some good pacing and provided a solid base for Dark Souls. Mechanically, it is a sound and arguably superior game, but the balance is a God damned mess.

Dark Souls comes along, and I might get flack for this, but even pre-patch, it still had alot of variety in builds (since so many things were "OP", it provided some variety). Post-patch, it becomes a arguably more balanced and varied game that caters to people of all skill levels. I have had fun playing this game from a cheesy mid-rolling Falchion spammer, to a fast rolling quality fashion, to a knightmom Tryhard. Of course it is going to suck when you lose and its much easier to blame the game than question your own skill.

Dark Souls 2... It's a mess. The controls feel sloppy, the combat is a boring, the variety in weapon movesets has been completely annihilated and replaced with shitty powerstance (powerstance is just a moveset with varying damage output). The hitboxes are terrible, the lag compensation is terrible, the balance is not even worth discussing and then Soul memory sits atop of this shit mountain mocking everyone.

It simply lacks the longevity that DkS and DeS had. People will get bored and move on because there is only so much you can learn from the game. You will reach a point and won't really get better after that, whereas in DkS you can tell the exact moment where the fight went wrong or the exact thing that you need to improve upon. DkS2 just requires an understanding of spacing and good stamina management, and you will win almost every fight.

I think people like DkS2 PvP because the barrier to entry is much lower. Everyone basically started at the same place since the mechanics were very different and people who couldn't catch a break in DkS were able to compete on some level in DkS2, and it is just more forgiving to stick with DkS2 than crawl back to DkS and expect to get good at it.

Got to say, you pretty much nailed it there. Dark Souls 2 from what I've seen has a very low skill ceiling compared to how technical Dark Souls 1 was. Yeah it's pretty fun summoning and bashing away at each other for a bit, and the stability and speed of summoning is a godsend, but it just doesn't have the technical finesse a duel in Dark Souls 1 has.

I would really love to play Demons Souls someday, the atmosphere and visual design looks amazing.

 

[his1nightmare]

I actually broke the disc with my bokken because I couldn't handle a sequel of this magnitude of amaurotic worthlessness.
After I wasted 100 hours to see everything no less.

 

[Skin]

but it just doesn't have the technical finesse a duel in Dark Souls 1 has.

Agreed, and I am sad to say I doubt any future Souls game will ever have the depth that DkS does. I play with the best DkS players on a daily basis and it is pretty stunning that we are still discovering new strategies and perfecting old ones.