David Cameron calls for all teens to do community service.

[The Long Road]

Personally, I am for some form of National Service: Germany and the Scandinavian nations have it and those who don't want to join the Armed Forces can do EMT or Police work.

Whoa, they can do EMT work? Even as a member of the American armed forces, I would totally have done a year or so of EMT service before anything else.

But anyway, it does seem like everyone is using this to express their leftrage that conservatives exist by pouncing on something that was very creatively misquoted by the OP. I think everyone should do some kind of volunteer work, too. Force it on them? Nah, that blurs the line between people who care and people who couldn't be bothered to give a few hours a week in the summer.

In this new 'age of austerity', a better idea might be to put those who do volunteer work at the top of the government benefit pecking order. They put in some work and are guaranteed benefits (Social Security in the US, not sure what the program are called in the UK). Then you allocate an amount of money that works in your federal budget. If you can't be bothered to do some community work, you aren't guaranteed anything. After the fund runs out, you're SOL. "Oh, you didn't do any community service? Well it's clear you don't give two fucks, so we'll serve those who do first."

Community service requires no special skills and everyone can find the time to do some, especially the unemployed and students who need it most. All it takes is the willingness to give something back to your community.

 

[Esseff]

So, annoyingly some more news related to the riots. David Cameron (The PM of England) has called for every teenager in the country to undertake community service, probably after seeing what us teens did in the riots. He said that it was a response to the so called "broken society" that we have here in England. He has called for every 16 year old to have compulsory community service as a rite of passage.

That was only a very brief summary of what i read in the article I saw, but if you want to read some more into this heres my source http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/265305

IMO: I think that this is a wrong way to fix britain. This is basically putting jobs meant for criminals in the hands of teenagers, most of which havent done anything wrong. I think that the government should be revising all the cuts its been making and actually do something to fix the poverty that probably caused these riots. They should make these jobs open to adults and actually pay them for doing it, thus lifting the unemployement rates.

[EDIT] Just mentioning this is the first time a thread I made went in the hot threads section! Dont think I did this thread just for that though.

...poor kids... poor... suburban kids... having to help clean up the community. That's just awful. Will you listen to yourself?

Community service is not necessarily punishment. All teenagers in my area have to do at least 40 hrs before they can graduate secondary school. I personally think it's great. Some kids won't take anything from it (and still be no worse off), but some will, and maybe they'll gain some perspective while they're at it.

I did my hours at a local elementary school for a week during spring break. I helped in the classrooms of the lower grades and it was fine.

Helping your community or volunteering for something isn't the end of the world. Get the fuck over it.

I think that's the most progressive thing he's said about the riots so far. Forcing kids to volunteer in their community may give them a larger sense of ownership... that doesn't address the racism or lack of paid employment opportunities, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Baneat]

I don't see that. I watched his whole speech online and I thought Cameron meant exactly what our politicians meant when they made it mandatory here.
.

I wasn't referring to David Cameron's speech.

 

[FernandoV]

Oh yea, poor him. What a bother it must have been to have to address the situation after it's been going on for days. You praise people for the good they do and scold them for the bad. The government is expected to provide the service of containing and controlling events like these.

....

And this is the kind of bullshit that lead to the riots happening in the first place. "The government is expected to do this..." "this is the government's fault..."

No. You cannot expect any organisation, whether it be a part time security business or the governance of the United Kingdom to be able to automatically contain wide spread rioting. You would do no better than they have in this situation. This is a deep seeded problem, but ultimately the blame goes to those who are lighting people's houses on fire. The blame does not fall on the polititicans.

People don't take responsibility for their actions anymore, and your post is complete proof of this. Even when confronted with outrageous crime and reckless disregard for ownership and value - you still say it's the governments fault. You ignore the scumbags who are out doing this to get new televisions, and you say it's all the fault of some average politician.

Maybe these people should look in the mirror and evaluate themselves, instead of lighting houses on fire saying "LOOK WHAT THE GOVERNMENT MADE ME DO".

With this kind of attitude, nothing would ever be accomplished. It's a repeat cycle of selfish nonsense and no one will ever stand up and take responsibility.

But you know what really upsets me about your rhetoric? It's the fact that you fucking believe these rioters. You believe them when they say "It's because of the rich!" or "it's because of the government and the conservatives!". You fall for that?

I tell you why they are rioting. Because all their friends are and they want a new plasma TV. These people are idiots. They are not like V from V for Vendetta. They are not like John Trumbull. They're opportunistic div kids.

You want to know what these people are like, take a look:


(If you can't see the video, this gang of people beat this kid up, broke his jaw, pretended to help him back up and rob him again).

Yeah, Viva La Revolution! Fuck those politicians!

--

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you about the fact that there are serious problems in this country. And yes, part of the blame does fall on the way the government has seemed to disillusioned the youth of the country. But the real people to blame are the idiots who think it is okay to light local business on fire and murder people because they don't like David Cameron.

And they my friend, are idiots. We cannot ignore this. We cannot pass the book. We cannot pass the blame.

You yourself assumed that I am solely blaming politicians, and assumptions only make you look silly if they aren't correct. My expectations of government aren't some romanticized ideal of what government should provide to us, it is actually what they're put in place for. This isn't some "bring down the man" speech, I'm all for government, especially when they are capable of doing what is expected of them.

 

[intheweeds]

I don't see that. I watched his whole speech online and I thought Cameron meant exactly what our politicians meant when they made it mandatory here.
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I wasn't referring to David Cameron's speech.

Ah I see. You meant OP? If you did, though, I still think the same thing. Of course fixing the damage should be part of their punishment. That is IMO a no-brainer, I don't think anyone would debate that.

This part of Cameron's speech has nothing to with that though. These are two separate issues. This part of the speech is about a greater societal problem. We aren't talking about 'jobs meant for criminals'. He's talking about community service for teens. The OP says:

"I think that this is a wrong way to fix britain. This is basically putting jobs meant for criminals in the hands of teenagers, most of which havent done anything wrong. I think that the government should be revising all the cuts its been making and actually do something to fix the poverty that probably caused these riots. They should make these jobs open to adults and actually pay them for doing it, thus lifting the unemployement rates."

OP is right in saying they should look at the governments role and I don't think anyone is arguing that either. What he is very wrong about is that these are jobs meant for criminals and/or that they should pay adults to do it. Other people in this thread are very wrong when they complain angrily about being 'forced' to do community service. It's two very different things.

Of course 'adults' will get paid to fix damage, but burned buildings will be fixed by private companies paid for by business/property owners with insurance money. City damage will be paid for by the city and will also be carried out by adults. It shows a lack of basic financial understanding to suggest that we just pay adults for damage to 'lift unemployment rates'. The damage will be fixed by people who have jobs already with private companies or the city, I hate to break it to you. If you could raise unemployment rates by simply inventing work for the city to pay for, there would be no unemployment already. Where do you think all this city money is going to come from?

Community service for teens has nothing to do with riot damage and everything to do with societal breakdown.

 

[nick2150]

snip

[EDIT] Just mentioning this is the first time a thread I made went in the hot threads section! Dont think I did this thread just for that though.

David Cameron can fuck off. That Eaton educated hypocritical (see property damage in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullingdon_Club) fuck-tard is going to lead this country back into a socially tiered hierarchy.

Teenagers don't need to do community service for no reason.

People on the dole need to do it. they get given money for nothing. there is no association with work=money. it might cost a little more to fund but it would mean that people would associate working with receiving things, i.e. money, and community service means people who did the work probably don't want to see it destroyed/defaced because they just have to re-do what they spent the day doing. It would also mean that people who 'cant be bothered to work' (actual quote from a scumbag I knew) wont get supported. Win win.

If teenagers want to go on the dole they should do community service. If they want to focus on their education, they should be allowed to do that. if they want to focus on sports or music or art or literature or computer games design, they should be allowed and encouraged to. What they should not do is associate all teenagers with criminals by forcing them to do free labour because they need keeping busy or they will burn stuff.

And finally, as for Cammeron, he is a dithering, incompetent idiot, looking to score as much public favour as possible while trying to make sure the rich retain as much power and money as possible (like Milliband and Clegg.......WHY THE FUCK ARE WE VOTING FOR THESE PEOPLE AND NOT THROWING THINGS AT THEM?!)

[/rage]

 

[funguy2121]

So, annoyingly some more news related to the riots. David Cameron (The PM of England) has called for every teenager in the country to undertake community service, probably after seeing what us teens did in the riots. He said that it was a response to the so called "broken society" that we have here in England. He has called for every 16 year old to have compulsory community service as a rite of passage.

That was only a very brief summary of what i read in the article I saw, but if you want to read some more into this heres my source http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/265305

IMO: I think that this is a wrong way to fix britain. This is basically putting jobs meant for criminals in the hands of teenagers, most of which havent done anything wrong. I think that the government should be revising all the cuts its been making and actually do something to fix the poverty that probably caused these riots. They should make these jobs open to adults and actually pay them for doing it, thus lifting the unemployement rates.

[EDIT] Just mentioning this is the first time a thread I made went in the hot threads section! Dont think I did this thread just for that though.

You may file all of the below under the heading of "with respect." And feel free to correct any misconceptions that I, as a Yank, may have about your country, such as what constitutes "community service" across ye pond.

I find that a lot of the good information I absorb comes from shitty sources, but is still good info nonetheless, such as accurate criticism that is conveyed in a non-constructive way. I don't really know much about your current PM, but if he's anything like his recent predecessors I wouldn't fault you for thinking he's a dick...which in no way means that he is not correct here. First of all, your society is broken. I don't say that as a snobby American, as our society is broken as well and seems just a few months behind your own on the timeline/spiral. Compulsory community service is definitely a bad idea. But encouraging teens to do community service is not.

"Jobs meant for criminals." This is not right, at all. Cleaning up highways and feeding the homeless and working at an animal shelter - these are all jobs that would exist even in a criminal-free utopia. Many teens and young adults volunteer for community service, and not as part of a sentence for being naughty. They do it for themselves. They do it for their church. They do it because it looks kick-ass on a college resume. They do it to remind themselves that there are people out there who are facing real adversity and suffering, and that the fact that they can't afford XBL and Netflix/LoveFilm this month isn't really something to ***** about. Unfortunately, your PM may just have the same view of community service as you do, and if he is successful in forcing all teens to do community service as a chore, there will be considerably fewer who actually do it for charity or self-betterment or anything resembling a noble reason.

 

[Arbi Trax]

I thought of a test to do, to determine what kind of "Nice Guy" you are. Imagine this scenario:

You're at work/school. You have spent a couple of hours doing a nice thing for a female friend. Let's say, decorating her desk for a surprise birthday - whatever. You wanted it to be a surprise, so you've been careful to make sure she won't know it's you.

She is delighted with the surprise, and before you know it, the office/class douche is leaving hints that it was him who organised it all.

What do you do?

 

[Verlander]

Spoiler: NEWS JUST IN!

DAVID CAMERON SPOUTS SOME ELITIST CRAP THAT WIDENS THE GAPING DIVIDE IN THE BRITISH CLASS SYSTEM!

Ahem, sorry about that. Yeah, this isn't surprising. He would send the poorer classes up chimneys if he could. He'd ship them abroad if it weren't for the European government. It ain't nice living in a country dominated by the political right, and unfortunately intelligence is a rarity, so they're democratically going to keep winning. Oooh, it feels like the 80's again! Thank fuck I'm not a teenager.

Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, as a teenager, I'm going to end up having to live through his nightmare. I narrowly escaped the mandatory sixth form thing (although I'm going into it anyway, because I'm not so stupid as to think I can get anything more than a supermarket/fast food job without it. (I don't know a "trade", as it were.) He's essentially trying to pack as many people into higher education as possible, even though it isn't for everyone. Things like University used to just be necessary for the people who were going to do the big stuff. Over the past few years (admittedly before he came into his administration) everyone has been encouraged to go off to Uni. Now suddenly "Oh, too much financial risk, let's triple the cost to students and get rid of the 21k salary repayment scheme!" Pick one, mate. And even then, tripling is a bit much. Or you could just leave it as is and stop trying to give everyone Diplomas that a lot of people don't need.

The difference is, the job market is now saturated. You can't get ANY job without some sort of specialisation.

The big thing that all of the newspapers are dodging, is that many students don't graduate. There is no guarantee that you'll like the Uni, the subject, the city, the people etc. And then, there is the big thing that no one, not even UCAS tells you, which is that Universities govern themselves. Which means the grading system is corrupt as hell outside of the top 10 institutions. Oh, there are independent examiners and reviews, but those essentially mean dick all. This means that some students get far higher, or far lower grades than they deserve. This becomes an issue because the job market is well aware of this inconsistency, and so good degrees rarely get much bonus over bad ones.

I'd say go for the University thing if you like, but be prepared to work in a supermarket anyway (and if you're lucky, most big supermarkets are hard to get a job in, and they prefer to hire older women, as it gives them a "better" atmosphere for families and women doing the daily shopping... I shit you not).

A trade is the best way to go if you're after a job and money, but be prepared to be woefully underpaid and treated like shit for at least two years, and potentially taught nothing because your boss only subscribed to the apprentice scheme for tax breaks and cheap labour... that's common too.

God bless Britain, and all that shit.

 

[Trivun]

Cameron's days are numbered. There's no way people will keep putting up with his blind idiocy.

Actually, though I do agree with you on that point, I reckon it's heading the right way. Not completely, I think community service for all teens is a bit much, but I've long believed that the government should bring back National Service (it's hardly outdated, there are plenty of other countries that still do it), to instill discipline in young people, and I say that as a young person myself. As for this 'community service' idea, I reckon the people out there on the dole who aren't bothered about finding work need to be brought together and told "either do these jobs, like cleaning litter or graffiti or whatever, or we'll stop your dole payments". I was in town today and got accosted by two guys who were asking for change to get back to Telford on the bus or train, and they explained that they had no money because they'd gone to get their dole payments and they'd been refused. Well, if they were actually trying to find work, then they wouldn't be in that situation, right? To be completely fair, by the way, these guys did mention they weren't looking for work properly, so I feel justified in my comments here.

My point is, David Cameron has screwed up in a lot of places, but we're all too quick to judge him when really some of his ideas are actually not that bad, and could work with a bit of tweaking and changing. He's still an idiot though, and I have no doubt he won't last the next General Election. Ah well, I never voted for him anyway...

 

[ChaoticKraus]

And David Cameron keeps acting like a bad stereotype of a british conservative. Well done Mr. Cameron.

Also, people riot because they are angry over something (racism, poverty, governmental opression etc.) not because they are lacking in "Moral Fiber". Fucking retard.

Yeah. You know what makes me a lot happier about social injustice or - as the rioters initially claimed - a suspicious death involving an armed man against armed police officers?

A new pair of trainers. Really helps me sleep at night.

OT: The whole concept is ridiculous. As someone who's done voluntary community service - it's great when you're into it. Wonderful, and the people can be lovely.

The best way to ruin that nice feeling is forcing people to do it. Way to break it, Hero.

You know, i didn't say the rioters were the good guys. I just simply said that claiming some "moral breakdown" shit caused it is stupid. When people get angry over something they vent their anger. That's just how stuff works, right or not.

I feel sorry for the people who lost their shops/stuff but the reaction from your goverment just makes me roll me eyes so hard they fall out of my skull.

 

[yman15]

I see a lot of people bitching, but what exactly is wrong with helping your community?

The problem isn't that they have to help the community the problem is they're punishing people for something they haven't done. Its like imagine you live in a neighborhood of about 50 people with a park in it. Then 5 guys go out and trash the park. So then the entire neighborhood is forced to clean up the park for what the two jerks did. Sure your helping your community but you will still feel cheated for having to clean it up.

Maybe I didn't read the original article closely enough, but it just seemed like he was encouraging people to do community service, not requiring them to.

No he's requiring teens to do it, there's nothing wrong with encouraging it lol

 

[The Funslinger]

Spoiler: NEWS JUST IN!

DAVID CAMERON SPOUTS SOME ELITIST CRAP THAT WIDENS THE GAPING DIVIDE IN THE BRITISH CLASS SYSTEM!

Ahem, sorry about that. Yeah, this isn't surprising. He would send the poorer classes up chimneys if he could. He'd ship them abroad if it weren't for the European government. It ain't nice living in a country dominated by the political right, and unfortunately intelligence is a rarity, so they're democratically going to keep winning. Oooh, it feels like the 80's again! Thank fuck I'm not a teenager.

Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, as a teenager, I'm going to end up having to live through his nightmare. I narrowly escaped the mandatory sixth form thing (although I'm going into it anyway, because I'm not so stupid as to think I can get anything more than a supermarket/fast food job without it. (I don't know a "trade", as it were.) He's essentially trying to pack as many people into higher education as possible, even though it isn't for everyone. Things like University used to just be necessary for the people who were going to do the big stuff. Over the past few years (admittedly before he came into his administration) everyone has been encouraged to go off to Uni. Now suddenly "Oh, too much financial risk, let's triple the cost to students and get rid of the 21k salary repayment scheme!" Pick one, mate. And even then, tripling is a bit much. Or you could just leave it as is and stop trying to give everyone Diplomas that a lot of people don't need.

Snip

Well university has been needlessly glorified. My point was that for the people like me who want to go to university for reasons aside from the fact that it's been encouraged as the best thing for me, it now will suddenly be three times as costly as before.

 

[Ickorus]

And David Cameron keeps acting like a bad stereotype of a british conservative. Well done Mr. Cameron.

Also, people riot because they are angry over something (racism, poverty, governmental opression etc.) not because they are lacking in "Moral Fiber". Fucking retard.

To be honest though a lack of 'Moral Fiber' is half of it, people saw it happening and saw that the police weren't doing much to stop it so they figured they could do it too and get away with it, of course when the police started arresting them all the Riots suddenly stopped because they realised they weren't going to get away with it.

Admittedly though the initial Riot, regardless of how misguided it was, quite likely had something to do with people being angry and being set off by opportunists and anarchists.

 

[lacktheknack]

Gee, the wrong people aren't going to take THIS personally.

Anyways, I don't see this actually happening.