On topic, I disagree. Although my reason as to why (Bungie, Blizzard and Valve aren't short for cash) has already been mentioned.
David Jaffe: "F**k" Being Nice in Game Development
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
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On topic, I disagree. Although my reason as to why (Bungie, Blizzard and Valve aren't short for cash) has already been mentioned.
Only the PC community though. Good luck if youre one of the poor saps that bought the orange box on 360 and missed out on all the updates.Onyx Oblivion said:
Anyway, I do not like any game this man has made. Perhaps he does need to be nicer and it will reflect in the quality of his games[footnote]Opinions, opinions, opinions[/footnote]
Also can I ask why you starred out asshole in article but not fuck?
There's a fine line between being nice and being firm. Any good leader knows this. Likewise, there's a fine line between being firm, and being an absolute jackass. Anyone that works under a BAD leader knows this.
Subordinates should not be coddled or pandered to. They're there to do a job. They're being paid to do said job. That should be all the coddling and pandering they need. If their quality or productivity suffers, the rest of the team suffers. A pep talk at that point in time is needed. 'Fall in line, or get off the bus.'
At the same time though, the efforts of yor subordinates should not be completely discounted just because that's what they're paid to do. When an underling does an outstanding job, they should be recognized for it. If an underling doesn't necessary excelt, but consistantly performs their duties as expected, they too deserve a little recognition now and then.
Subordinates should not be coddled or pandered to. They're there to do a job. They're being paid to do said job. That should be all the coddling and pandering they need. If their quality or productivity suffers, the rest of the team suffers. A pep talk at that point in time is needed. 'Fall in line, or get off the bus.'
At the same time though, the efforts of yor subordinates should not be completely discounted just because that's what they're paid to do. When an underling does an outstanding job, they should be recognized for it. If an underling doesn't necessary excelt, but consistantly performs their duties as expected, they too deserve a little recognition now and then.
Welp he's a dick. I got into steam and valve games because their customers prior talked about how good a developer they were and how awesome the sails and pricing was. So because valve was NICE they attracted customers. Likewise I refuse to buy the next game this guy ever makes because he's a dick.
I am now going to make a gaming company where the programmers have to sit with a shotgun at the back of their heads while coding. Just to encourage them to work faster, I'll kill one of them each week randomly.
Oh wait, Activision already does this...
I have no problem with how games are made, even if the developer is a little aggressive. A lot of art and literature were made by amazingly anti-social or sociopathic assholes, and that turned out pretty well. Attitude has nothing to do with the end product.
Oh wait, Activision already does this...
I have no problem with how games are made, even if the developer is a little aggressive. A lot of art and literature were made by amazingly anti-social or sociopathic assholes, and that turned out pretty well. Attitude has nothing to do with the end product.
Does anyone miss the old days where you had to be nice in order to avoid a hatchet to the forehead? Probably overrated.
This is good advice for any aspect on your life. Being nice gets you invited to hang out when your "friends" have nothing better to do. Being right and assertive and demanding is what gets shit done. And if you value a continued paycheck or if you hope to accomplish anything meaningful with your life you want to work with the guys who get shit done even if you don't want to invite them to your BBQs.
I respectfully disagree with your assessment of management, Mr. Jaffe. If you feel a need to be a total asshole to get shit done, that just means you're not a competent enough manager to get your team invested emotionally into the success of a project.
Yes, sometimes you have to "be the boss" and make executive decisions (and lord knows it's a skill I need to improve as a manager), but if your team likes and respects you and gets included in the decision-making process as much as the circumstances allow, they'll be far more likely to say "shit, he's really serious, better do this for him" rather than "that fucker, another fucking order, better do this so I don't get shit-canned in this economy."
Don't cover up your incompetence by making your team hate you, David. Learn how to fucking manage before you get a reputation as someone nobody would want to apply for a job to work with.
Sadly, in game development there seems to be an endless stream of willing suckers to put up with abusive fucks like Jaffe because "I get to make games, it's something I love!" No wonder industry satisfaction is among the lowest for educated workers.
Yes, sometimes you have to "be the boss" and make executive decisions (and lord knows it's a skill I need to improve as a manager), but if your team likes and respects you and gets included in the decision-making process as much as the circumstances allow, they'll be far more likely to say "shit, he's really serious, better do this for him" rather than "that fucker, another fucking order, better do this so I don't get shit-canned in this economy."
Don't cover up your incompetence by making your team hate you, David. Learn how to fucking manage before you get a reputation as someone nobody would want to apply for a job to work with.
Sadly, in game development there seems to be an endless stream of willing suckers to put up with abusive fucks like Jaffe because "I get to make games, it's something I love!" No wonder industry satisfaction is among the lowest for educated workers.
Bullshit, not being to some people crucial in making the game will result in the game not being made or only partially being made. I'd love to see his face then. Douche.
There is no "one size fits all" management style. You have to find a style that works for you, that fits your personality.
Jaffe's personality is the ass, thus the ass management style works best for him personally. YMMV.
Disclaimer: I do not claim to have any idea what I am talking about.
Jaffe's personality is the ass, thus the ass management style works best for him personally. YMMV.
Disclaimer: I do not claim to have any idea what I am talking about.
I don't think he means "asshole for the lulz" but rather "asshole to get the job done.". As in rather than ask for a task to be completed by a certain date, he'd say do this by then or else all hell breaks loose.
Still being an asshole, even for efficiency reasons, can still be worse overall.
Still being an asshole, even for efficiency reasons, can still be worse overall.
Remember when your Mom asked you to clean your room? Do you remember that it was never done if she didn't start threating you? Why would that change?
Bullshit! The more the employees feel like they don't need to work hard, the lesser they are to work hard. That human nature and by nature we are lasy bastarddanpascooch said:
That what his post said, but did your read it before posting? May that be a lesson: never take what someone you don't know says for gold.danpascooch said:
Yet, at some point they all had to come down onto a employee at some point. Being nice is one think, letting the job goes to hell is another.Dark Templar said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
So you worked for Blizzard? You've been there? How do you know? Are you 100% certain your source are true? No? Then why said that?Alar said:
Yeah, if your a jerk 24/7. The fact is that this thread use small bit of his blog without context sure make him look like a ass!Alar said:
Wow! Just how much to show that picking something out of context can make the masses act like bots. I read all that his post and if he said he's mean when needed, that ok. Like people said, shit need to get done.o0pwnman0o said:
Wait did they just censor ass? They failed to censor fuck. Lol. Anyways... Yeah I think you should do a little of both sometimes. Being super nice can get in the way of important decisions. Being an a**hole all the time can really get on someone's fucking nerves and make them hate the boss and not work at all.
Quoting someone out of context make for better news, but then where the truth. HERE IT IS: THE FULL TRANSCRIPT OF JAFFE'S BLOG:Tom Goldman said:David Jaffe: "F**k" Being Nice in Game Development
David Jaffe's latest public service announcement encourages the nation's youth to be jerks.
David Jaffe, known for his work on the Twisted Metal and God of War games, wants everybody to know that being nice is underrated. According to him, game development success can't be reached by making it a priority for everyone to like you.
In a blog post [http://criminalcrackdown.blogspot.com/2010/05/milestone-crunch-game-makin-lessons.html] today, Jaffe explained that he's "had a reputation for being kind of a hard ass to work with." He often focuses his anger on the technical frustrations of developing games, but admits he hasn't hesitated to give people a stern talking to when necessary.
Jaffe evidently decided that he'd go with a change of pace recently, writing: "As of late I've tried to be nicer, kinder, more inclusive." How did it go? "Fuck that. Doesn't work," he says.
The ban himself from the internet [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91115-David-Jaffe-F-k-the-motherf-king-PS3] is thankful "no real harm was done" to his current project by being too sugary sweet. Most importantly, he writes: "Never allow your desire to be nice and liked to get in the way of the vision because the game will suffer. And the team will suffer as well because a failed game means the studio is at risk."
So to all you aspiring developers out there, you'd better start practicing being a**holes if you want to make it anywhere in the business. David Jaffe is known for making, shall we say, "interesting" statements, but this one is actually a decent piece of advice for most walks of life. Thankfully, he still included expletives.
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MILESTONE CRUNCH & GAME MAKIN' LESSONS!
Hey ya'll- sorry been away for a few days. Game is in milestone crunch on all fronts and there is just no time to breathe.
Wanted to pop in and say hey and share 2 things that have come up in recent days that have really struck me as important lessons about making games or making anything creative or...hell, perhaps living life in general? Dunno. I will elaborate more when I have more time but for now, here goes:
1. BEING NICE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS BEING A PUSHOVER...AND OFTEN TIMES EVEN BEING NICE CAN BE MISTAKEN FOR BEING A PUSHOVER SO SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN- At times I've had a reputation for being kind of a hard ass to work with. Demanding, basically. I'm not a yeller or a shouter unless I'm yelling more at the tv or the game and something's not working. Then I'm all like, "FUCK THESE MOTHERFUCKING SWORD ATTACKS! NOT TRANSITIONING FROM ATTACK TO ATTACK DAMMIT!"...but It's rare that I deal with people that way. I DO sometimes, but not often.
Again, I can be demanding and very protective of a game's vision and I can be relentless in pushing myself and pushing others to improve that vision. And the people I love working with are the same in that they push me and force me to improve the vision too. Nice thing about that is, the game gets better. But you do take on a reputation for being a pain at times.
So as of late I've tried to be nicer, kinder, more inclusive.
Fuck that. Doesn't work.
Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision. Thank God no real harm was done to our current game because of it. Nice wake up call tho. Grateful for the lesson.
Here's the reality: on a creative project there's the vision that once it's locked, we all must be slaves to. Protect that vision at all costs. And sometimes that means you open the doors a bit to let the vision grow and be improved by the right members of the team who 'get' it. But not everyone on a game will always get it and so it's key to know when an idea improves and when it takes away from the game's core.
And never allow your desire to be nice and liked to get in the way of the vision because the game will suffer. And the team will suffer as well because a failed game means the studio is at risk.
2. AH-HA MOMENTS ARE RARE WHEN STARTING A GAME- Been thinking about future games to make as of late and as we're head deep in this current one and it's taken on its own life and it's come together as it's own living, breathing thing, I caught myself thinking that a new game idea should have the same sense of purpose and meaning and locked vision that a game as far along as our current game should have. I felt the same after GOD OF WAR when looking for new game ideas: that the game idea should feel solid and locked and I should just 'know it' when the idea came to me or was pitched to me by someone else. But I only recently realized that it rarely works that way. Often times you just start the journey of a new creative project confident or semi confident in where you are going but until the team comes in and adds their amazing talents, before you get the- hopefully- great ideas that you contribute and see come to life, your game really is this lifeless thing. And so as I search for new ideas it's key to remember that a lot of faith is needed in knowing what idea to pull the trigger on because it's very rare that the idea itself is a slam dunk.
Ok- back to it. So slammed no time to proof read so hell if I know if what I just wrote even makes sense!
Sure there is a shit ton of typos!
Talk soon- later ya'll!
David
YOU might need someone to stick a cattle prod up your ass to work hard, but as for me, and the people I know, we work harder in our classes when our teacher is reasonable and appreciative, rather than a hard ass.Akalistos said:
There is a big difference between being an asshole and being strict. My Statistics teacher served in the military (went to West Point, she flew helicopters) she is very strict, but she is also very nice, we work hard because we know she expects us to work hard, but we also appreciate how reasonable and kind she is, and we work harder for it.
Of course I can, but I deserve free time, that is hardly the point here, nor is the point that human nature is to be lazy.Akalistos said:
The point is that you get better results by being kind yet strict, than being an asshole, that has nothing to do with how human beings are naturally lazy, it's about how being an asshole is not the best method to foster productivity. Your post was aiming to prove something that is completely irrelevant.
Also, when you first quoted me, you said "did you even read his post" I was the first commenter, and I didn't quote anybody, I was voicing my opinion, so what the hell were you talking about?
Look, I can attempt to prove something totally irrelevant and pretend it makes me right too:
Exactly like I said, the sky is big, try to wrap your arms around the whole sky, can you do it? Nope. See, I'm right about David Jaffe because of that!
(See how useless and annoying that is?)