David Jaffe: "F**k" Being Nice in Game Development

[Tom Goldman]

Being a jerk and giving people a stern talking to when needed are two completely different things. If you can do the second without doing the first, you're on the right track.

Basically this. This is why group leaders exist: the manager is the person to be feared, and the group leaders are the ones that encourage you and are allowed to be nice to you.

You are right in general... but not this time. Read his(Jaffe) post, he don't want to be a jerk but does it when needed. What the escapist slander party didn't mention is this line from Jaffe:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Dude, chill out. Did you miss the part where I quoted Jaffe as saying -- "Never allow your desire to be nice and liked to get in the way of the vision because the game will suffer. And the team will suffer as well because a failed game means the studio is at risk." ??? It's about the vision, yeah, and I put it in the post.

I fail to see how I somehow twisted Jaffe's words to make him look like a complete ass in the least, or slander him. Did you not read where I wrote this is "actually a decent piece of advice for most walks of life," too? I'm not going to re-post an entire blog, but I feel I quoted what was necessary to get the point across.

 

[zehydra]

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

No, he isn't. For Jaffe's blog that you didn't read:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Edit: He would be the guy that make you work hard but at the end of the day will invite you to a bar for a nice refreshing beer!

yeah, but that's not being a jerk. You can be nice AND stern. Jaffe's version of the word "nice" is equivalent with "submissive" and you can be nice without being submissive.

No, you can't be stern without being look like a jerk.

No, yes you can. Trust me. besides, "Jerk" is to some degree subjective.

 

[oppp7]

Didn't we hate on Kotick for this?

 

[littlewilly91]

Depends what you value most. I bet there are n00b modellers or whatever struggling to keep up with demand who he takes aside and is horrible too, even when they already understand the pressure. Sounds like an excuse for bullying to me. I mean I'm sure there is some simple laziness that can be chastened, but largely employees just need inspiration or the right advice. Having a 'go' at them about it may make them work harder and hash through the problems their own way, but it's also a hacky way of doing things that spreads discontent through the studio instead of a share and share alike atmosphere. Maybe if you're making a game with Kratos as the lead this sort of thing helps?

I don't think the game should be at the expense of everything else- it might make the game fast but it either burns out the talented employees or turns them into soldiers. I don't believe there's any prerogative to make soldiers out of the people making games. What kind of industry are you trying to design? Each designer/producer has to find the level of sacrifice they think is right.

 

[Akalistos]

Being a jerk and giving people a stern talking to when needed are two completely different things. If you can do the second without doing the first, you're on the right track.

Basically this. This is why group leaders exist: the manager is the person to be feared, and the group leaders are the ones that encourage you and are allowed to be nice to you.

You are right in general... but not this time. Read his(Jaffe) post, he don't want to be a jerk but does it when needed. What the escapist slander party didn't mention is this line from Jaffe:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Dude, chill out. Did you miss the part where I quoted Jaffe as saying -- "Never allow your desire to be nice and liked to get in the way of the vision because the game will suffer. And the team will suffer as well because a failed game means the studio is at risk." ??? It's about the vision, yeah, and I put it in the post.

I fail to see how I somehow twisted Jaffe's words to make him look like a complete ass in the least, or slander him. Did you not read where I wrote this is "actually a decent piece of advice for most walks of life," too? I'm not going to re-post an entire blog, but I feel I quoted what was necessary to get the point across.

Than, your news was ambiguous at best. Did you see that there a lot of people that didn't get it? I fought people so they would check the source. Did you see the comment? Let me sample some:

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

And yet, as far as I know, no one in Blizzard treats any of their people like that. AND OH MY GOODNESS, BLIZZARD HAS A HUGE FAN-BASE AND MAKES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR!

Yeah, being a jerk can take you far in life, but people will hate you and eventually want to plot your downfall. As soon as the people start working against you because you're an asshole, that's when you've gone too far.

Welp he's a dick. I got into steam and valve games because their customers prior talked about how good a developer they were and how awesome the sails and pricing was. So because valve was NICE they attracted customers. Likewise I refuse to buy the next game this guy ever makes because he's a dick.

Hell, i fought with danpascooch and in the end he read Jaffe's blog. He message me about reading it and changing his own first comment. Here:

Employees that feel appreciated work that much harder, you need to find a way to be a decent person without compromising quality of work.

I don't agree with Jaffe. If he overdoes it, he'll get the game developing equivalent of a fast food worker spitting in your food because you were an asshole.

EDIT: I just read the blog, this news story is really biased and out of context, it paints him as an asshole when what he said was:

"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Read the blog, and please don't make any more news stories that twist words Escapist Contributers, it's wrong and it confuses people

If it wasn't the message you wanted to pass. You failed, but i can forgive. Just make it more clear before you attack people that really don't deserve it.
Edit: Wrong word... Just make sure your post doesn't attack an innocent or being misinterpreted.

 

[Akalistos]

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

No, he isn't. For Jaffe's blog that you didn't read:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Edit: He would be the guy that make you work hard but at the end of the day will invite you to a bar for a nice refreshing beer!

yeah, but that's not being a jerk. You can be nice AND stern. Jaffe's version of the word "nice" is equivalent with "submissive" and you can be nice without being submissive.

No, you can't be stern without being look like a jerk.

No, yes you can. Trust me. besides, "Jerk" is to some degree subjective.

When you force someone to do something, your a jerk. That the bottom line. I got once a nice boss, he was a ass during the work time. All on the account to run a company. But at the end of the day, when work was over, his personality change and he was the nicest guy. That is what he call a WORK FACE and a NORMAL FACE because, like you surely know, you can't be love by all. That doesn't mean we couldn't count on him.

 

[zehydra]

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

No, he isn't. For Jaffe's blog that you didn't read:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Edit: He would be the guy that make you work hard but at the end of the day will invite you to a bar for a nice refreshing beer!

yeah, but that's not being a jerk. You can be nice AND stern. Jaffe's version of the word "nice" is equivalent with "submissive" and you can be nice without being submissive.

No, you can't be stern without being look like a jerk.

No, yes you can. Trust me. besides, "Jerk" is to some degree subjective.

When you force someone to do something, your a jerk. That the bottom line. I got once a nice boss, he was a ass during the work time. All on the account to run a company. But at the end of the day, when work was over, his personality change and he was the nicest guy. That is what he call a WORK FACE and a NORMAL FACE because, like you surely know, you can't be love by all. That doesn't mean we couldn't count on him.

Uh, no? Forcing someone to do something doesn't automatically make you a jerk. If you're unjustified in making someone do something then, yes, you'd be a jerk.

 

[Akalistos]

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

No, he isn't. For Jaffe's blog that you didn't read:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Edit: He would be the guy that make you work hard but at the end of the day will invite you to a bar for a nice refreshing beer!

yeah, but that's not being a jerk. You can be nice AND stern. Jaffe's version of the word "nice" is equivalent with "submissive" and you can be nice without being submissive.

No, you can't be stern without being look like a jerk.

No, yes you can. Trust me. besides, "Jerk" is to some degree subjective.

When you force someone to do something, your a jerk. That the bottom line. I got once a nice boss, he was a ass during the work time. All on the account to run a company. But at the end of the day, when work was over, his personality change and he was the nicest guy. That is what he call a WORK FACE and a NORMAL FACE because, like you surely know, you can't be love by all. That doesn't mean we couldn't count on him.

Uh, no? Forcing someone to do something doesn't automatically make you a jerk. If you're unjustified in making someone do something then, yes, you'd be a jerk.

Even then, that you miss the point. When your old enough, you'll understand that shit don't get done if you give cookies and milk after nap time.

 

[Akalistos]

Honestly if you want to be competitive in any market you have to be a fucking dick. It doesn't matter if its employees, competitors, or even some customers there is a point when you gotta say enough is enough or get the fuck out.

Of course that doesn't mean we have to like or agree with them, but that's why they are successful so i don't think they give a shit.

He does. He leave the internet for a while because people bash him like crazy. Do you know why he came back... because of that video from Keven Smith
But your right; When shit need to get done, you got to be mean!

 

[Danpascooch]

Being a jerk and giving people a stern talking to when needed are two completely different things. If you can do the second without doing the first, you're on the right track.

Basically this. This is why group leaders exist: the manager is the person to be feared, and the group leaders are the ones that encourage you and are allowed to be nice to you.

You are right in general... but not this time. Read his(Jaffe) post, he don't want to be a jerk but does it when needed. What the escapist slander party didn't mention is this line from Jaffe:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Dude, chill out. Did you miss the part where I quoted Jaffe as saying -- "Never allow your desire to be nice and liked to get in the way of the vision because the game will suffer. And the team will suffer as well because a failed game means the studio is at risk." ??? It's about the vision, yeah, and I put it in the post.

I fail to see how I somehow twisted Jaffe's words to make him look like a complete ass in the least, or slander him. Did you not read where I wrote this is "actually a decent piece of advice for most walks of life," too? I'm not going to re-post an entire blog, but I feel I quoted what was necessary to get the point across.

Than, your news was ambiguous at best. Did you see that there a lot of people that didn't get it? I fought people so they would check the source. Did you see the comment? Let me sample some:

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

And yet, as far as I know, no one in Blizzard treats any of their people like that. AND OH MY GOODNESS, BLIZZARD HAS A HUGE FAN-BASE AND MAKES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR!

Yeah, being a jerk can take you far in life, but people will hate you and eventually want to plot your downfall. As soon as the people start working against you because you're an asshole, that's when you've gone too far.

Welp he's a dick. I got into steam and valve games because their customers prior talked about how good a developer they were and how awesome the sails and pricing was. So because valve was NICE they attracted customers. Likewise I refuse to buy the next game this guy ever makes because he's a dick.

Hell, i fought with danpascooch and in the end he read Jaffe's blog. He message me about reading it and changing his own first comment. Here:

Employees that feel appreciated work that much harder, you need to find a way to be a decent person without compromising quality of work.

I don't agree with Jaffe. If he overdoes it, he'll get the game developing equivalent of a fast food worker spitting in your food because you were an asshole.

EDIT: I just read the blog, this news story is really biased and out of context, it paints him as an asshole when what he said was:

"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Read the blog, and please don't make any more news stories that twist words Escapist Contributers, it's wrong and it confuses people

If it wasn't the message you wanted to pass. You failed, but i can forgive. Just make it more clear before you attack people that really don't deserve it.
Edit: Wrong word... Just make sure your post doesn't attack an innocent or being misinterpreted.

Damn straight I changed my mind, I can admit when I'm wrong, and this guy should too.

 

[zehydra]

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

No, he isn't. For Jaffe's blog that you didn't read:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Edit: He would be the guy that make you work hard but at the end of the day will invite you to a bar for a nice refreshing beer!

yeah, but that's not being a jerk. You can be nice AND stern. Jaffe's version of the word "nice" is equivalent with "submissive" and you can be nice without being submissive.

No, you can't be stern without being look like a jerk.

No, yes you can. Trust me. besides, "Jerk" is to some degree subjective.

When you force someone to do something, your a jerk. That the bottom line. I got once a nice boss, he was a ass during the work time. All on the account to run a company. But at the end of the day, when work was over, his personality change and he was the nicest guy. That is what he call a WORK FACE and a NORMAL FACE because, like you surely know, you can't be love by all. That doesn't mean we couldn't count on him.

Uh, no? Forcing someone to do something doesn't automatically make you a jerk. If you're unjustified in making someone do something then, yes, you'd be a jerk.

Even then, that you miss the point. When your old enough, you'll understand that shit don't get done if you give cookies and milk after nap time.

I totally understand that (don't assume my age, I haven't told you it), but not giving milk and cookies after nap time doesn't make you a jerk. Being a jerk means doing things uncalled for. If being stern and hard was necessary to get things done, then he wasn't being a jerk. It's not black and white, like (jerk/nice), there's a space in between.

 

[Fearzone]

People should listen to this guy. I've played some games coming out of studios with nice guy bosses and can feel the lack of direction.

Only game from him I played was GoW 3 and thought it was okay but not great, just not my cup of tea, doubt I would get GoW 4 were it to happen, but it was well done and, as a game, it knew what it stood for.

 

[Paksenarrion]

Being a jerk and giving people a stern talking to when needed are two completely different things. If you can do the second without doing the first, you're on the right track.

Basically this. This is why group leaders exist: the manager is the person to be feared, and the group leaders are the ones that encourage you and are allowed to be nice to you.

You are right in general... but not this time. Read his(Jaffe) post, he don't want to be a jerk but does it when needed. What the escapist slander party didn't mention is this line from Jaffe:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

I apologize, when I said fear, I meant you fear to disappoint the manager. You cannot do that if you do not respect the manager.

Ok, then. I've been working hard to make people realize that what the escapist says isn't 100% true. I Misinterpreted your post.

And I misinterpreted yours. No harm done.

 

[Irridium]

If his game is good I'll believe him.

God of War was great, so who knows.

 

[Akalistos]

Being a jerk and giving people a stern talking to when needed are two completely different things. If you can do the second without doing the first, you're on the right track.

Basically this. This is why group leaders exist: the manager is the person to be feared, and the group leaders are the ones that encourage you and are allowed to be nice to you.

You are right in general... but not this time. Read his(Jaffe) post, he don't want to be a jerk but does it when needed. What the escapist slander party didn't mention is this line from Jaffe:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Dude, chill out. Did you miss the part where I quoted Jaffe as saying -- "Never allow your desire to be nice and liked to get in the way of the vision because the game will suffer. And the team will suffer as well because a failed game means the studio is at risk." ??? It's about the vision, yeah, and I put it in the post.

I fail to see how I somehow twisted Jaffe's words to make him look like a complete ass in the least, or slander him. Did you not read where I wrote this is "actually a decent piece of advice for most walks of life," too? I'm not going to re-post an entire blog, but I feel I quoted what was necessary to get the point across.

Than, your news was ambiguous at best. Did you see that there a lot of people that didn't get it? I fought people so they would check the source. Did you see the comment? Let me sample some:

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

And yet, as far as I know, no one in Blizzard treats any of their people like that. AND OH MY GOODNESS, BLIZZARD HAS A HUGE FAN-BASE AND MAKES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR!

Yeah, being a jerk can take you far in life, but people will hate you and eventually want to plot your downfall. As soon as the people start working against you because you're an asshole, that's when you've gone too far.

Welp he's a dick. I got into steam and valve games because their customers prior talked about how good a developer they were and how awesome the sails and pricing was. So because valve was NICE they attracted customers. Likewise I refuse to buy the next game this guy ever makes because he's a dick.

Hell, i fought with danpascooch and in the end he read Jaffe's blog. He message me about reading it and changing his own first comment. Here:

Employees that feel appreciated work that much harder, you need to find a way to be a decent person without compromising quality of work.

I don't agree with Jaffe. If he overdoes it, he'll get the game developing equivalent of a fast food worker spitting in your food because you were an asshole.

EDIT: I just read the blog, this news story is really biased and out of context, it paints him as an asshole when what he said was:

"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Read the blog, and please don't make any more news stories that twist words Escapist Contributers, it's wrong and it confuses people

If it wasn't the message you wanted to pass. You failed, but i can forgive. Just make it more clear before you attack people that really don't deserve it.
Edit: Wrong word... Just make sure your post doesn't attack an innocent or being misinterpreted.

Damn straight I changed my mind, I can admit when I'm wrong, and this guy should too.

You sir are a breath of fresh air in the putrescent water that is the internet.

 

[Akalistos]

Jaffe is just like my current boss, and guess what? We dominate all of the competition.
Jaffe shall always be my hero for proving that being a jerk can get you far in life.

while leaving a trail of hate

No, he isn't. For Jaffe's blog that you didn't read:"Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision."

Edit: He would be the guy that make you work hard but at the end of the day will invite you to a bar for a nice refreshing beer!

yeah, but that's not being a jerk. You can be nice AND stern. Jaffe's version of the word "nice" is equivalent with "submissive" and you can be nice without being submissive.

No, you can't be stern without being look like a jerk.

No, yes you can. Trust me. besides, "Jerk" is to some degree subjective.

When you force someone to do something, your a jerk. That the bottom line. I got once a nice boss, he was a ass during the work time. All on the account to run a company. But at the end of the day, when work was over, his personality change and he was the nicest guy. That is what he call a WORK FACE and a NORMAL FACE because, like you surely know, you can't be love by all. That doesn't mean we couldn't count on him.

Uh, no? Forcing someone to do something doesn't automatically make you a jerk. If you're unjustified in making someone do something then, yes, you'd be a jerk.

Even then, that you miss the point. When your old enough, you'll understand that shit don't get done if you give cookies and milk after nap time.

I totally understand that (don't assume my age, I haven't told you it), but not giving milk and cookies after nap time doesn't make you a jerk. Being a jerk means doing things uncalled for. If being stern and hard was necessary to get things done, then he wasn't being a jerk. It's not black and white, like (jerk/nice), there's a space in between.

Your now where i wanted you to be. I can't make the point if the conversation doesn't turn about what is and isn't call for.

Read his post: he clearly said he don't do it to be a jerk, but just when needed and he don't like it. In his original post he said:"Again, I can be demanding and very protective of a game's vision and I can be relentless in pushing myself and pushing others to improve that vision. And the people I love working with are the same in that they push me and force me to improve the vision too. Nice thing about that is, the game gets better. But you do take on a reputation for being a pain at times.

So as of late I've tried to be nicer, kinder, more inclusive.

Fuck that. Doesn't work.

Can I still be nice? Always. But not at the expensive of the game's vision. Thank God no real harm was done to our current game because of it. Nice wake up call tho. Grateful for the lesson."

That what i call, being a jerk for the sake of the group instead of being a jerk to be a jerk. The difference is that only one feel remorse afterward!Please read my post where i transcript (more like just copy/paste) Jaffe's blog. It at the beginning of the second page.

 

[UberNoodle]

YOu don't need to be an arsehole to make 'command decisions'. The best leaders command loyalty through respect, but Jaffe seems to think that he can get it through fear. Well, he isn't getting loyalty and soon enough he'll experience mutiny. Anyone who has to lower themselves to 'arsehole' tactics is just doing the equivalent of a hissy fit, except with authority.

 

[Fuloqwam]

My current employer supports Jaffer's argument. My boss is a brilliant business man, and anything he touches turns to gold, but he's got no teeth when it comes to employees. He's the nicest guy in the world, and the workers have taken this as an opportunity to walk all over him. They've turned the workplace into their own personal clubhouse. Nothing gets done. We've lost literally millions because an employee was supposed to finalize a contract, but "didn't get to it".

We have exceptional workers as well and they're rewarded often, but in a tight-knit gossipy office, anyone who's not rewarded takes it as an insult.

It takes skill to be taken seriously and still liked. Not every entrepreneur can do it. I don't hold it against Jaffer that he has to bring the hammer down now and then.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

*points at Valve, Blizzard, and Bungie*

Being nice is good for business and development.

Be nice to employees, and most importantly, your community.

Being nice to your customers is a good thing, yes. Having strong community involvement is something that these three companies do well (and more should start doing). However, note that this also means that they're able to take the full brunt of the force when the fans get pissed-off about something. If they fudge-up in even the slightest way, BAM! the front page of their forums will be filled with it (and no doubt a bunch of fanboys defending it, which brings me to my next paragraph).

Over-all I agree with Jaffe 100%, but the message shouldn't just go out to developers, it should go out to fans. Too many fans are all-too-eager to instantly defend their company (and/or game) of choice without pausing to consider that the person bashing on them actually has a point. As Yahtzee quite accurately stated: "They don't need you to defend them, they have lawyers to do that." The whole DRM debate is a perfect example. Goto any forum for a game that has DRM and state that you haven't purchased the game yet because of the DRM and I guarantee you that someone will rush in there so they can defend the DRM with a level of fervor that would make you think he was on the company payroll.

Gamers too easily forget that our job as the consumer is to question the product, not defend it.