Dawn of war 2: Why I hate windows live

[Zykon TheLich]

So, um...how do I get this DoWII 'beta' and decide for myself if I like it and what is this 'steam' thing...and what's Windows live? Anyone?

 

[Jandau]

So, um...how do I get this DoWII 'beta' and decide for myself if I like it and what is this 'steam' thing...and what's Windows live? Anyone?

1. Go to http://store.steampowered.com/app/15660/. Click "Install Game", the popup windows will guide you through the installation (if you don't have Steam installed and set up). After Steam is installed and you make an account (all this is free), the game will start downloading.

2. Go to http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-GB/Live/Pages/livejoin.aspx and make a LIVE account (ignore the X-Box signs, the account works for PC as well).

3. If you already have any version of LIVE older than 2.0, uninstall it. Start the game when it downloads from Steam

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Cheers

 

[Mikaze]

Ok, I see some people throwing around wierd rumors they heard about the game. I'll attempt to clarify, since I've actually played it.


DoW2 is an RTS game. It's not the first game to take the focus off base building, and if you define an RTS by base building, I am forced to disagree with your definition of the genre. Especially since such a definition means that Homeworld series, World in Conflict, Myth series, Kohan series and Ground Control series are not RTS games. Are you saying that those games are not RTS games?

P.S. When I say "take the focus off base building" I mean exactly that. Some of the games I mentioned do away with bases altogether, others just streamline the entire thing (DoW2 is in this category).

Those games are RTS games, but they're a different variety of RTS game, and they're not what many of the people who really loved DoW1 would want to play, people expect that because it's called Dawn of War that they're getting what is essentially an improvement and/or continuation of a successful series. What we DID get is a completely new game with the same name and the same idea source.

That's why I'm not buying the game, I didn't even bother to make a LIVE account for the beta.

If you're interested in the game, why not get the beta, tolerate the throwaway live account in order to credibly send THQ beta feedback in which you say "The live account creation and login process felt awkward and superfluous to my requirements." thus getting the message across in a constructive fashion?

The rusty hinge gets the oil.

Because there is, and excuse my French here, FUCK ALL! THQ can do about it, they don't own Windows Live and can't get DoW2 out of GfWL because they've already sold the rights to Microsoft.

*Edit* Wait, just remembered the other thing I detest about it, the complete lack of supply lines. In CoH you had to maintain a route of supply to all your resource points, in DoW2 bots (haven't played online yet, only got it working a little while ago after much strife with Windows Live)will just take whatever point they want, this is ridiculously annoying for someone realistically trying to form and hold a front line, when all of a sudden there's enemies taking all my shit from behind me.

*Edit2*

No, it's caused by idiots with 400+ ping that ruin it for the rest of us. Especially for their team, since when they get kicked, they are replaced by dumbshit stupid AI that likes to rush alone using only the commander and ignoring everything on it's way.

Their high ping is often caused by them having way too high graphics and sound settings. At least that was my problem originally (the game kept telling me that my graphics settings was too high) and when I lowered them everything ran much smoother (big surprise there). Of course some high ping might be because of a slow connection or them running somesort of p2p but most likely it is people wanting to run the game on highest settings in multiplayer when their machines can't handle it.

The settings people run the game on have no effect whatsoever on ping, ping is the time it takes you to send a packet to the server and recieve a packet from the server and is thus based entirely on internet speed and physical distance, this is why I can't play American servers from Australia despite having my beast of a PC. If you run the game with settings your system can't handle, you wil lag but it will have no effect on anyone else.

 

[Mikaze]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Jandau]

Those games are RTS games, but they're a different variety of RTS game, and they're not what many of the people who really loved DoW1 would want to play, people expect that because it's called Dawn of War that they're getting what is essentially an improvement and/or continuation of a successful series. What we DID get is a completely new game with the same name and the same idea source.

Well, that post was directed to people who keep saying DoW2 isn't an RTS game because it doesn't have base building. Though, I am happy you agree with me that base building isn't mandatory for a game to be a proper RTS.

Also, I agree that just calling it Dawn of War 2 might be a bit misleading considering the large changes made to the game. But I don't consider it a big deal myself. It was stated quite clearly during the entire development phase that they were taking the game in a new direction and anyone who bothered to read anything about the game before joining the Beta knew what he was getting into. Granted, there's the separate problem that a lot of people don't read much, which leads to ranting on various forums...

 

[Jandau]

Months back I did up a nice article about this very subject. Got buried faster than a Yahtzee praise thread, but if you wanna dig it up it would be worth a read. Basically though, I stated a need to reclassify the RTS genre and subdivide it into new types. By taking base management out of RTS games, they aren't strategy games anymore. Tactical yes, strategic no. Thus:

RTS (Real Time Strategy) - Literally Star Craft or C&C Original. Base construction, real time play, bird's eye view (or angled top-down). Also worth mention, Evil Genius and Dungeon Siege could fit under RTS.

RTT (Real Time Tactical) - Myth, Homeworld, etc... No constructable bases, in some cases not even the ability to recruit new units in a level, real time, played from the same top-down or angled view as an RTS.

TBS (Turn Based Strategy) - Same as an RTS, but not real-time. Games of this sort would be like X-Com or UFO:E. Worth mention, the Heroes of Might and Magic series could be seen as a TBS game.

TBT (Turn Based Tactical) - Turn-based gameplay without the construction or designing of bases. This subgenre would include the Famicon/Advance Wars series, Battle Isle, and Chess.

That's quite fair. Subdividing a genre to better explain its many facets is welcome. Also, your division is quite nice and workable. However, the "Is DoW2 an RTS?" question isn't so much related to the question of "RTS vs RTT" and more related to the "DoW2 sux! It's not a real RTS! rofl, it's for noobs" reaction that so many people have as soon as they see Relic changed the game...

 

[scotth266]

I've never had any problems with Games for Windows Live, and to be honest I don't expect to. Besides, when Windows 7 comes out MS will probably fix this service up good. It's also free to use now, so there's no real need to complain. As for Xfire not working with it, that's Xfire's problem to deal with, as I'm sure they will in order to support this game. Besides, it works with Halo 2, so it's just a matter of updates.

Also, the first game was what introduced me to the Warhammer 40k universe, so I don't see the problem with the game not being a proper use of the world... I always thought that it was awesome. The only parts I didn't like were the engine-based cutscenes that replaced the awesome intro movie, and how the expansions from DC on just threw plot to the side in favor of the Risk-style format.

 

[Bretty]

I have been playing the BETA every night after work since it was made available.

To join a friends game, it takes my 4 clicks. Home, Messages, The "Wants to play message", and "accept invite"

I have a good connection and it take 15 seconds on game launch to get into the join game and in a search.

People, if you dont like DoW2 fine, if your computers have an issue with Live, fine, but where do you think these issues lie? I will tell you more often than not it is your systems or Microsoft's issues with certain countries. I have had little to no issues with either the game or MSL. Minus the obligatory retarded child.

I dont see why people think this is an issue. It is wierd having the Overlay AND Live. But both are cool and one click away from closing?

 

[Deathbird]

I sadly didn't enjoy the combat in DOW2 beta, i found it less tactical than dawn of war one.
I found i could win by not even really looking at what abilities i was using and just attacking with all my units from one direction.
I understand they wanted it to be tactical and about the battle but i don't enjoy it when you take more out then you put back in, at least give us a REAL size map, the maps are too small.. this isn't Warcraft 2 people.
Make a decent size map if you want to have armies fight, look at medieval 2 total war for their battle maps you can actually have a battle or even supreme commander for what a map made for an army should be sized like.

 

[WickedSkin]

Hold on a sec... Dow2 is going "Games for Windows Live"?

1 - Does that mean it's going to require Vista?
2 - Does that mean I have to have a Live account?
3 - If yes to #2, does such an account cost money?
4 - If yest to any above, are they trying to drive away potential buyers, or were they just beaned in the head with the eTard stick?

1. No, just another user name and password to go on the pile.
2. Yes, even if for offline play.
3. No, there is no subscription fee for a PC LIVE account (that I'm aware of.)
4. Microsoft wants to be your all-in-one, your one-stop-shop, your wallet's best buddy. This mandatory bundling is the "Hard Sell."

"I will make them an offer they cannot refuse." "Put a horse's head under their bedsheets?" "Or Windows LIVE in their favoured new releases, do we have enough horse heads?" "Not enough for projected sales, sir." "Drat! Oh well, Windows LIVE it is..."

1. I think sometime in the future we will be forced to buy Windows 7 to play games.
2. Closing in
3. That might cost in the future once it has a big enough customer base.
4. MS is trying to take all your money and forever will. Their almost-monopoly allows for some ridiculous prices for their OS.

The future looks bleak. I will use XP for as long as I can.

 

[mooncalf]

Because there is, and excuse my French here, FUCK ALL! THQ can do about it, they don't own Windows Live and can't get DoW2 out of GfWL because they've already sold the rights to Microsoft.

The settings people run the game on have no effect whatsoever on ping, ping is the time it takes you to send a packet to the server and recieve a packet from the server and is thus based entirely on internet speed and physical distance, this is why I can't play American servers from Australia despite having my beast of a PC. If you run the game with settings your system can't handle, you wil lag but it will have no effect on anyone else.

If THQ, the publisher, is aware that Live is not popular among their user base, then future games are less likely to be partnered with Microsoft in the Games for Windows program. Games you might want... Geddit?

Ping can be affected when machine lag stops packets being sent in a timely fashion, irrespective of how fast the packets travel.

I agree with you about the supply lines. Though it's an important and fun tactic to sneak around behind enemy lines, this could be limited to non-capping activities...

 

[bukky]

1.i dont get it what is wrong with windows live
and 2.i read you need the internet to activate the game is that true

 

[flame5029]

Hold on a sec... Dow2 is going "Games for Windows Live"?

1 - Does that mean it's going to require Vista?
2 - Does that mean I have to have a Live account?
3 - If yes to #2, does such an account cost money?
4 - If yest to any above, are they trying to drive away potential buyers, or were they just beaned in the head with the eTard stick?

answer to the first one yes you need vista because you need direct x 10 which for some reason requires vista

 

[Cowabungaa]

Hold on a sec... Dow2 is going "Games for Windows Live"?

1 - Does that mean it's going to require Vista?
2 - Does that mean I have to have a Live account?
3 - If yes to #2, does such an account cost money?
4 - If yest to any above, are they trying to drive away potential buyers, or were they just beaned in the head with the eTard stick?

answer to the first one yes you need vista because you need direct x 10 which for some reason requires vista

Eh no you don't, I play the Beta on XP for some weeks now without any problems.
To answer the questions, based on my experience:
1: No
2: Yes
3: It's free
4: Not applicable then.

Anyway, yea it's kind of annoying that you need such an account for an online game, but I really don't see why it's THAT much of a problem. I mean, my Windows Live account logs in automatically after I boot up the game and 10 seconds later I'm looking for a game, about a minute later I usually have one and I'm playing. Ofcourse, given that someone doesn't screw up the game with his shitty settings (wich means that everyone's FPS is choppy, yes I know it's completely different then ping problems) or someone's ping is so screwed people start DCing.

 

[bukky]

so wots wrong with windows live

 

[dekkarax]

Unfortunately, DOW2 has GLW because of a deal between THQ and microsoft. Relic can't do anything about it, and all THQ games will have GLW from now on.