Day of the Doctor thread SPOILERS!

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TimeLord

For the Emperor!
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Aug 15, 2008
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Josh12345 said:
TimeLord said:
citizen snips
Keep in mind during 'The End of Time' Rassilon and his council had been stuck in this time loop for a while, and they had known that time was repeating itself hundreds of times by the time we see them.
It isn't too far a stretch to assume that they divised the 'screw all life but us' solution during their time in purgatory.
Also remember that with the Daleks decimated (with the remnants being fought during 9,10 and 11's run) and Gallifrey brought back into the fold, the Timelords don't need to destroy the universe anymore.

Then again, The Moment is the one WMD that hasn't been set off, so I imagine that if the writers botch Gallifrey's return then the Moment can always be set off again.
That's what I'm hoping. I loved Dalton as Rassilon so I hope to see a more balanced Time Lord ruler if Cappelli's Doctor frees the Time Lords in the future.

I can see The Moment being a major plot point in the future, either for good or ill.
 

Spacewolf

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Didn't really like it to be honest, monsters where pointless and the interaction between Tennant, Smith and Hurt felt really out of place considering what their relation to him was.

Would have preferred them to just stay in the shed for the whole episode with those two trying to stop Hurt by proposing various solutions that get played out for the audience to see but always end in failure before they actually go through with the plan to activate the moment. Could have had some more emotionally heavy scenes that way.
 

Josh123914

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Nov 17, 2009
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TimeLord said:
Josh12345 said:
TimeLord said:
citizen snips
Keep in mind during 'The End of Time' Rassilon and his council had been stuck in this time loop for a while, and they had known that time was repeating itself hundreds of times by the time we see them.
It isn't too far a stretch to assume that they divised the 'screw all life but us' solution during their time in purgatory.
Also remember that with the Daleks decimated (with the remnants being fought during 9,10 and 11's run) and Gallifrey brought back into the fold, the Timelords don't need to destroy the universe anymore.

Then again, The Moment is the one WMD that hasn't been set off, so I imagine that if the writers botch Gallifrey's return then the Moment can always be set off again.
That's what I'm hoping. I loved Dalton as Rassilon so I hope to see a more balanced Time Lord ruler if Cappelli's Doctor frees the Time Lords in the future.

I can see The Moment being a major plot point in the future, either for good or ill.
Maybe we'll see incarnations of other Timelords?
Last I checked Romana was President of the Time Lords at some point.
 

Guestyman

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Nov 23, 2009
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Gizmo1990 said:
As epic as it was to see Tom Baker (and it was SOOOOOO EPIC!) how does he fit in? The Forth Doctor never got that old so what the hell was that? (again not complaining it was epic)
There's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it explanatory line of dialogue where Tom Baker explains that he's not the fourth, but a future incarnation who has chosen to wear an old face.

I can't remember the exact quote, but it goes something like

11: It's you! I never forget a face
Baker!Doctor: You might even end up revisiting a few. Only the old favourites of course.
and later Baker!Doctor refers to being 11 in the past not future tense.
 

TimeLord

For the Emperor!
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Aug 15, 2008
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Josh12345 said:
TimeLord said:
Josh12345 said:
TimeLord said:
citizen snips
Keep in mind during 'The End of Time' Rassilon and his council had been stuck in this time loop for a while, and they had known that time was repeating itself hundreds of times by the time we see them.
It isn't too far a stretch to assume that they divised the 'screw all life but us' solution during their time in purgatory.
Also remember that with the Daleks decimated (with the remnants being fought during 9,10 and 11's run) and Gallifrey brought back into the fold, the Timelords don't need to destroy the universe anymore.

Then again, The Moment is the one WMD that hasn't been set off, so I imagine that if the writers botch Gallifrey's return then the Moment can always be set off again.
That's what I'm hoping. I loved Dalton as Rassilon so I hope to see a more balanced Time Lord ruler if Cappelli's Doctor frees the Time Lords in the future.

I can see The Moment being a major plot point in the future, either for good or ill.
Maybe we'll see incarnations of other Timelords?
Last I checked Romana was President of the Time Lords at some point.
Various incarnations of Ramona were president for various periods of time. Rassilon was resurrected to fight as a war president.

Also, since the Master was sucked back to Gallifrey in the End of Time... does that mean that John Simm is alive?!
 

Albino Boo

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Ronack said:
Though it was certainly a disappointment to see the old Doctor's only in what essentially amounts to a clip show (except for you know who), I do think it was an overall excellent episode. By far some of Moffat's best work in a very long time (save for Night of the Doctor). It was an homage to the Doctor's past and future, carefully bringing everything together since Rose all those years ago. Though, I do see a single flaw in all of this ... The End of Time saw that Gallifrey was trapped in a time bubble, kind of like Groundhog Day. If the War Doctor regenerated and lost his memory of what happened, are we meant to believe that everything up to Eleven still happened the way it did?
Its only the incident of the doctors meeting that can't be remembered due to the time streams being in collision. Actullay doctors 5, 6 and 7 do make an appearance but you will hard pressed to spot it .
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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I liked how he thought the rabbit was the shapeshifter.

But with the Time War, it was nice not seeing the brightly coloured Daleks.
 

TimeLord

For the Emperor!
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Aug 15, 2008
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misterprickly said:
You have to love it when the Doctor asks "Will it hurt?" since the next Doctor is played by John Hurt ;)
Inspired by that I have prepared a little image.

 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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Dec 11, 2009
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TimeLord said:
Akichi Daikashima said:
I want to kill Stephen Moffat after watching it.

Not only did he piss on the existing lore, he also pissed on Russell T Davies by rendering the entirety of the revived series pointless: all of that character development, what made Tennant's Doctor so memorable has been pissed away.

Not to mention that he clearly forgot that the Time Lords went mad in the last few days of the War, and that the Doctor time-locked, not killed both races because both were a threat to the universe(seriously, watch Tennant's last episode, The End of Time, I think it's called): Daleks wanting to exterminate everything and the Time Lords wanting to destroy the universe and become beings of "pure consciousness".

In not locking the War, the Doctor allowed not only the time lords to exist, but all the horrors of the war to exist too.

FUCK YOU STEPHEN MOFFAT.

The only things I liked were the callbacks to the old series, but with everything else, I was forcing myself to watch, the fact that all the three Doctors all spoke like Matt Smith and had his personality, the fact that Elizabeth was still Sally Sparrow/River Song/Amy Pond/Clara Oswald, or rather, any main female character that Stephen Moffat has ever written and will write.

To reiterate, FUCK YOU STEPHEN MOFFAT.
It doesn't piss on Eccleston and Tennant's character development as their Doctor's are still under the impression that they used the Moment to destroy Gallifrey and the Time Lords, only Smith's Doctor knows the truth now.

I agree about not locking the war might cause issues but the Time Lords only went mad in trying to survive the war by extreme means. Now that they have survived by not destroying the universe then they might go back to being not crazy? Only time will tell. But then, the 13 Doctor's might have still locked the Time War after saving Gallifrey, and since they removed Gallifrey before Time Locking it, then it may still be accessible. Seeing as a powerful being like the Moment can circumvent the Time Lock anyway (albeit, admittedly, from the inside) means that something similar may happen in the future.

Also I disagree, Tennant and Smith's Doctor's are similar in some regards but Tennant was distinctly Tennant in this story.
Sorry for my reaction, but I honestly cannot remember the last time I was so angry at Moffat.

To me, the "Tennant" Doctor didn't kick in until later, but at the very beginning with QEI he seemed a bit more Matt Smith-y than usual.

But still, the bit about saving Gallifrey still rubs me the wrong way; it was this huge thing about the Doctor, and it says in the tardis wiki:

"Wilf is confused as he thought the Time Lords were wise and peaceful. The Doctor tells him that's how he chooses to remember them; in reality the horrors of the Time War had changed the Time Lords, making them far more dangerous than any of his enemies"

In reality, they were already insane and now they are unleashed upon the universe, and since the rest of the time war is no longer time-locked, doesn't that mean that the horrors of the time war are returning too?

"The Daleks(yes, they died, but as part of the wiki) would not be the only additional escapees; they would be joined by the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, and the Could've Been King with his Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres,"

It just seems to me like Moffat didn't do his homework, especially how easy it was to do so: just watching The End of Time shows why its a bad idea, which was a fairly significant episode.

*sigh* Hopefully Peter Capaldi will be graced with better writing than Matt Smith was: good Doctor, just not very good episodes.
 

Josh123914

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Nov 17, 2009
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Akichi Daikashima said:
What if (and this is just a thought) the Time War is still Time locked, but Gallifrey was plucked out of it?
Is that a reasonable statement? Because I mean if thats the case then it falls in line with the likes of Davros from season 4 needing rescuing from the Lock, and races like the Gelth and Zygons losing their worlds to the Lock.

Also, Daleks escaping? That's really not a big deal at this point, off the top of my head I can think of AT LEAST 5 Dalek stories since 2005 that are either survivors of the Time War, or got through it somehow, or just pretend that it didn't happen.
All in all the Moment really only seemed to wipe out the Timelords, while pretty much leaving an ever growing stream of Daleks to pour out of it with only the Doctor to stop them.

Not a good trade off if you ask me, and I formed that opinion since AT LEAST September last year when that whole Dalek Asylum thing happened.
 

NQJ

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Apr 5, 2013
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Akichi Daikashima said:
TimeLord said:
"The Daleks(yes, they died, but as part of the wiki) would not be the only additional escapees; they would be joined by the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, and the Could've Been King with his Army of Meanwhiles and Neverweres,"
Or those items and beings allready had been destroyed during the war. Remember that at the point in time where Galifrey fell, the war had been going on for a long time, sometimes even on repeat.
Galifrey was shown to be under attack from pretty much all the dalek, they probably even brought in the last few, and nothing else.

Even if they were present at the time when they removed Galifrey from the timestream, they would still be dead. There was a insane explosion when it was removed, probably the Moment setting off a localised catastrophic event, and you even see wreckage from the Dalek fleet fly past the camera.

For all timeline purposes, it happened exactly like it's allways been described as happening. Galifrey exploded, Daleks, sans 3 survivors, exploded, the Doctor thinks he did it.
Except the Moment never destroyed Galifrey as it has always been thought, the Moment brought 3 Doctors together and used their combined experience and guilt to formulate a solution.
It's the ultimate instance of a thing you have gone ages regretting and then suddently you come up with the solution on how to prevent it many, many years later. Nothing you can do about it, the Doctor can, well, the Moment could make sure the Doctor could.

As to the reason he doesn't remember it happening that way, probably the Moment again, punishing the Doctor for even being willing to use such a power and do such a terribly thing. Also, it needed the Doctor to work on a solution since being all powerful doesn't necessarily come with a great imagination.

Appearently 400 years was his penance and now the Moment has absolved him from it. How Trensalor happens, who knows. The Doctor that was headed there was a man wracked by guilt and selfinflicted torment. He might still end up there somehow and still come out on top, wouldn't be the first time he's escaped from certain death before.

As for Galifrey coming back? It allows for some new stories and it also gives the next reincation a clean slate to deal with all the things that now survived on Galifrey (Rassilon and his band of whackjobs comes to mind) and the fallout from that. It also means that there will be a natural opposing power to the Daleks (the amount of Daleks seen in the Asylum episode could probably wipe out all life in the universe three or four times over). What will be interesting is how the Doctor will manage to keep them from going at each others throats again.
 

CrazyGirl17

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Sep 11, 2009
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I thought it was pretty awesome, sure it might have had some flaws (like the Zygon pplot thread just... stopping, but otherwise it was a fun episode/movie.

Also, the climax was just epic, with the Doctors Taking a Third Option and saving Gallifrey. (Not sure whether or not I should put in a reference to the "Everybody lives!" line here...) Oh, and the Tom Baker cameo was a nice touch.

Anyway, I can't wait to see where they go with the concepts they brought up, namely a possibly revived Gallifrey...
 

EscapeGoat_v1legacy

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I LOVED it! I ended up watching it twice back-to-back on iPlayer, that's how much I adored it. For once, I thought Moffat managed to write a top-notch episode (something I personally don't think he's done since The Girl in the Fireplace) and Hurt, Tennant and Smith with all at the absolute top of their game. I think the new motivation of the Doctor in trying to find Gallifrey will now make for an awesome driving force behind Capaldi's Doctor, which should be especially refreshing given how his last three regenerations have all been a bit melancholy. But yeah, just absolutely fantastic from start to truly awe-insiring ending. Beautiful stuff.
 

Objectable

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Incidentally, did anyone think that the Zygons looked really, REALLY derpy?
http://i1.cdnds.net/13/14/300x225/zygons.jpg
 

Auberon

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I squeed at the historical references like Fourth's scarf, Baker cameo and time lock explanation - not to mention how it set up a course for Capaldi-era.
 

BrotherRool

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I like what Tom Baker's appearance means for the show. For starters we have absolute confirmation that they're going to break the 13 regeneration limit, since he's a 14th Doctor now, (Moffat has confirmed in interviews that he acknowledges the 13 limit as existing) but moreso, it looks like they might break it in a way that's going to leave it not tightly limited again, otherwise they'd have been more careful about wasting an entire lifetime on a cameo (although shame on you Moffat for deliberately bumping the numbers forward so that you get to deal with breaking the limit =D). I'm really hopeful this means that we're going to see non Tom Baker cameos as well.

I would actually really love it if they break formula after it happens and have one or two episodes every now and then with completely different Doctors as the focus. I would love to see a proper Paul McGann episode, he has earned an appearance on the actual television series in some form
 

itsmarkk

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Nov 24, 2013
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OK, so at the end of the episode, if you had your TV's CC on, the curator Doctor said "Who nose?" So is Galifrey frozen inside in Dr Who's nose?
 

faefrost

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the 13 limit broken way back in the 70's in the Tom Baker episode that introduced the concept? The whole point was the master was on his last regeneration and failing. And was using some Galifrean artifacts to reboot his regenerations (which obviously worked). But the flipside was that the Tom Baker doctor was exposed to the same process. So he theoretically was either reset to 1, or is one of the few Timelords without a limit, since that time.

PS. Is anyone else now feeling deeply disappointed that we did not get to see a full season or more of John Hurt as the Doctor? His performance was wonderful.