DCEU

[Natemans]

Is this you talk dude? Superhero stuff? I mean at this point your avatar should be Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Hulk, or Spawn.

I talked about Star Wars or other subjects. Also I'm not a Spawn fan.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Is this you talk dude? Superhero stuff? I mean at this point your avatar should be Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Hulk, or Spawn.

I've never seen you talk about LotR, it's usually "levity ruins everything" this and "especially in a silly premise like superheroes" that.

I did, made a poll aboutit awhile ago.

 

[Tanis]

I think it's too late.
Miller wasn't a very good choice to base off their universe one. Dude has devolved into one sick fuck.

Unless they pull a 'Kingdom Come' type of deal with the JL movie.
IE: They make the characters realize they've been acting like dicks and start wearing 'white' again.

I see the whole damn thing burning to the ground.

Which...is kind of a shame.
DC used to have THE best cartoons. Marvel didn't have shit on them.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Also, it's bad writing to introduce a character by saying their sword traps the souls of its victims, and not have her trap someone's soul in it during the movie.

There were many, many problems with Suicide Squad, but in its defence, a lot of them came from trying to ape Marvel's methods.

The decision to include a bunch of B-listers and "comics-accurate" characters - I mean, Katana has no purpose in the plot and her mask doesn't look like something someone would actually wear - on the basis that "the fans will get it" ended up overburdening the movie. I mean, comic book movies should be produced with their fans in mind, but they should also be good movies. If you're struggling to find a way to write in a lady with a magic katana that steals souls, maybe she doesn't belong in the script.

If I'd been in charge of Suicide Squad, the first thing I'd do is write out Enchantress. The second thing I'd do is make the Joker the actual bad guy. The third thing I'd do is make sure like half the cast dies over the course of the film. The fourth thing I'd do is a lot of cocaine.

The fifth thing I'd do is write in this scene:


The sixth thing I'd do is add King Shark. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Shark]

Spoiler: Behold his glory.

 

[Rangaman]

All evidence suggests that it's fucked. Wonder Woman looks no different to the previous three movies and Justice League looks franchise-killingly awful.

Fixing it? Well here's a few pointers:
-Fire David Goyer, he's a clown
-Fire Zac Snyder, he's a prick
-Stop shooting your movies in near-constant darkness. It makes sense for Batman, but not for Superman.
-Movie first, cinematic universe second. Focus on making a good movie that can fit into a cinematic universe first. Otherwise you'll end up like the Captain America films.
-You're making movies about men in skin-tight costumes beating the shit out of aliens/robots/each other, etc. Have some fucking levity. Christ, even The Dark Knight Trilogy had moments of fun.
-CGI is not the solution to everything. I understand that in superhero movies, it has to be used. But plastering it everywhere is only going to make it stand out more. Also, your CGI is awful.
-Give people more that six weeks to write a script.

Oh, and stop trying to catch up to Marvel. They jumped on the gravy train before you did and there's no undoing that.

 

[Cicada 5]

All evidence suggests that it's fucked.

What evidence? That it?s grossed almost a billion dollars with just three films and made more money than the first three MCU movies, only one of which was any good?

Wonder Woman looks no different to the previous three movies

You mean this Wonder Woman?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U

and Justice League looks franchise-killingly awful.

Fixing it? Well here's a few pointers:
-Fire David Goyer, he's a clown
-Fire Zac Snyder, he's a prick
.

If these were sufficient reasons to fire someone in Hollywood, 98% of the people there would be out of a job

-Stop shooting your movies in near-constant darkness. It makes sense for Batman, but not for Superman

I refer you once again to Wonder Woman

-Movie first, cinematic universe second. Focus on making a good movie that can fit into a cinematic universe first.

Actually, that?s pretty much what they?ve been doing for the most part. BvS might been a crossover but everything else is just a movie that can fit into the same universe without building towards something down the line.

-You're making movies about men in skin-tight costumes beating the shit out of aliens/robots/each other, etc. Have some fucking levity. Christ, even The Dark Knight Trilogy had moments of fun.

There is levity in these movies. It just isn?t in your face like a freaking Looney Tunes cartoon on sugar rush. The trailers for WW and JL that you so decried also feature jokes.

Oh, and stop trying to catch up to Marvel. They jumped on the gravy train before you did and there's no undoing that.

Maybe when people stop comparing everything they do to Marvel than will happen. Hell, there?s people busting on them for not catching up to Marvel.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Oh you sweet boy, you've never read Goyer's infamous rant that outs him as the absolute worst pick any superhero movie could possibly hope for.

David Goyer got lucky with Blade and then got pegged as Hollywood's "superhero script guy" despite not having any real proficiency at the task. He persists through a combination of industry connections and an impressive resume that noticeably fails to include any films with a good screenplay.

The guy knows people who know people and so he gets hired on to rewrite Man of Steel's script or something so that the genetic database Zod is hunting after turns out to be inside Superman's blood all along wooo-ooo-oooo!

"No, Clark! Don't save me, your adoptive father, from this tornado! That would out your existence to the world at large, despite the fact that this is Kansas in the 00s and no-one has a camera phone, and also there's a fucking tornado going on and you can move at super-speed so who the fuck is going to be able to take a picture anyway, and also you pushed a goddamn school bus out of the river when you were fourteen! But forget about all that, you'll have to let me die because you can't riiiisk iiiiit!"

 

[Cicada 5]

Fixing it? Well here's a few pointers:
-Fire David Goyer, he's a clown
-Fire Zac Snyder, he's a prick
.

If these were sufficient reasons to fire someone in Hollywood, 98% of the people there would be out of a job.

Oh you sweet boy, you've never read Goyer's infamous rant that outs him as the absolute worst pick any superhero movie could possibly hope for. Here's the part about Martian Manhunter...

?How many people in the audience have heard of Martian Manhunter?? After hearing some light applause and cheers, he added, ?How many people that raised their hands have ever been laid??

Way to fall back on outdated stereotypes of your core viewing audience.

After this, Goyer explained his take on the hero: ?Well, he hasn?t been rebooted but he?s a mainstay in the Justice League. He can?t be fucking called the Martian Manhunter because that?s goofy. He can be called Manhunter? The whole deal with Martian Manhunter is he?s an alien living amongst us? So he comes down to Earth and decides, unlike Superman who already exists in the world now, that he?s just going to be a homicide detective? So instead of using super-powers and mind-reading and like, oh, I could figure out if the President?s lying or whatever, he just decides to disguise himself as a human homicide detective. Dare to dream!?

...he also accuses She-Hulk fans of being incest fetishists. [https://www.themarysue.com/david-goyer-calls-she-hulk-sex-fantasy/]

I read those statements. They were stupid and inane and proof the guy needs coaching when it comes to public speaking. But he's not the only one in the industry to make comments like that and if that alone is enough to fire him you might as well fire virtually everybody in Hollywood. Hell, look up what Joss Whedon has said about Carol Danvers and Wonder Woman and ask if you're still excited about him directing the Batgirl movie.

 

[Rangaman]

All evidence suggests that it's fucked.

What evidence? That it?s grossed almost a billion dollars with just three films and made more money than the first three MCU movies, only one of which was any good?

The fact that all three DCEU movies have been shit? Besides that, the Avengers made 1.5 billion USD. And besides that, while I agree that Iron Man 2 is trash, The Incredible Hulk isn't a bad film by most accounts.

Wonder Woman looks no different to the previous three movies

You mean this Wonder Woman?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INLzqh7rZ-U

Overly CG'ed, over the top and with one or two unfunny lines strewn throughout? Yep.

Fixing it? Well here's a few pointers:
-Fire David Goyer, he's a clown
-Fire Zac Snyder, he's a prick
.

If these were sufficient reasons to fire someone in Hollywood, 98% of the people there would be out of a job

Yeah, but that doesn't mean people should excuse it. Besides, those two are prickish by Holloywood standards.

-Stop shooting your movies in near-constant darkness. It makes sense for Batman, but not for Superman

I refer you once again to Wonder Woman

And I refer you to Justice League.

-Movie first, cinematic universe second. Focus on making a good movie that can fit into a cinematic universe first.

Actually, that?s pretty much what they?ve been doing for the most part. BvS might been a crossover but everything else is just a movie that can fit into the same universe without building towards something down the line.

Aside from the several quintillion mentions of other DCEU films in Suicide Squad and Man of Steel, you're absolutely right.

-You're making movies about men in skin-tight costumes beating the shit out of aliens/robots/each other, etc. Have some fucking levity. Christ, even The Dark Knight Trilogy had moments of fun.

There is levity in these movies. It just isn?t in your face like a freaking Looney Tunes cartoon on sugar rush. The trailers for WW and JL that you so decried also feature jokes.

Yeah, bad ones.

Oh, and stop trying to catch up to Marvel. They jumped on the gravy train before you did and there's no undoing that.

Maybe when people stop comparing everything they do to Marvel than will happen. Hell, there?s people busting on them for not catching up to Marvel.

And then after that, I'll get a job juggling snowballs through Hell. The fact that they made their big crossover the second movie in the franchise suggests to me that they want to catch up to Marvel.

 

[Cicada 5]

The fact that all three DCEU movies have been shit? Besides that, the Avengers made 1.5 billion USD. And besides that, while I agree that Iron Man 2 is trash, The Incredible Hulk isn't a bad film by most accounts.

We're only three movies into the DCEU and they managed to make more money than the first three MCU films. No shit the Avengers made 1.5 billion after numerous other films lead up to it.

Overly CG'ed, over the top and with one or two unfunny lines strewn throughout? Yep.

I could say the same of every MCU film trailer tbh.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean people should excuse it. Besides, those two are prickish by Holloywood standards.

They?re not even close to the worst.

And I refer you to Justice League.

Suicide Squad wasn?t shot in total darkness either. And the shots in JL took place at night or under the sea where you expect things to be dark.

Aside from the several quintillion mentions of other DCEU films in Suicide Squad and Man of Steel, you're absolutely right.

Okay, not you?re just being hyperbolic. What movies were referenced in MoS? They weren?t even planning a DCEU at that time. The only other film SS references is BvS.

Yeah, bad ones.

Maybe by your standards.

And then after that, I'll get a job juggling snowballs through Hell. The fact that they made their big crossover the second movie in the franchise suggests to me that they want to catch up to Marvel.

BvS isn?t the big crossover.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

The fact that all three DCEU movies have been shit? Besides that, the Avengers made 1.5 billion USD.

The deciding factor in the DCEU continuing isn't going to be the critical quality of the films. It'll be the box office gross.

Look at Suicide Squad. Easily the worst of the three DCEU films so far, but it still pulled in like $700 million globally. BvS was thoroughly underwhelming, but still took in $900 million, falling short of the expected $1 billion mark mostly due to a poor performance in China.

The problem is that the DCEU films are only considered financial failures in comparison to the runaway success of the Marvel films. Remember: it is still extremely unusual for any film to take in over a billion dollars in box office gross. Most Marvel films don't. In fact, the DCEU has roughly the same average gross [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films#Highest-grossing_franchises_and_film_series] as the MCU. It just has only three films to contend with Marvel's fourteen (Marvel's combined box office gross is just under $11 billion, whereas DC's is $2.2 billion.)

It's mostly about perspective, really. No-one expects Thor to be a smash-hit, but a film where Batman fights Superman? Some predictions were going as high as two billion dollars. It was expected to at least break $1 billion. $900 million is a disappointment, sure, but it's not a bomb.

What's most likely to kill the franchise is continued mediocrity. If no DCEU film manages to be actually good, they will stop throwing money at them because it means that there's a growing risk that one will bomb catastrophically. This is basically what happened with the Amazing Spider-Man films; they were making less and less money with each installment, and Sony didn't want to take the risk that a third one would implode.

I'd say that all it would take is for Wonder Woman and/or Justice League to underperform in the same way BvS did for Warner Bros. to pull the plug on the franchise. Then again, they might shrug and say "well, money is money" and go full steam ahead. God knows they'll make the budget back on toys.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Two things: First I call it the DC Film Universe (DCFU) and the second thing is kind of a 'get out of fuck-up free' card and it's the one that DC has always had up its sleeve:

Just slap that onto every DCFU film (and pre-DCFU film I guess) and push the idea that all of these films are their own things taking place in their own Elseworlds variation of the DCU. This also opens them up to have a film adaptation of Infinite Crisis once they find a writing/directing team that starts making objectively great films again. Nerds like me already assume that the movies are Elseworlds tales already but pushing the Elseworlds brand on the general viewing public could be a great boon for DC and WB if only because it's an easy out to explain why there have been so many Batmen, why there are so many Flashes, etc.

As for actual things that I would do...Zack Snyder and Nolan can be retired from here on out. Batman should also be benched for a few years but that would be unrealistic considering how profitable he is. When it comes to the animated films though, I don't know what to do with those. On paper they seem to be fine but something happens during production that just...screws them up. The most direct thing I could do would be to make them completely sexless since Killing Joke and Judas Contract (mostly Killing Joke) had their weird, weird sex bits that should have just been left out.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Two things: First I call it the DC Film Universe (DCFU) and the second thing is kind of a 'get out of fuck-up free' card and it's the one that DC has always had up its sleeve:

Just slap that onto every DCFU film (and pre-DCFU film I guess) and push the idea that all of these films are their own things taking place in their own Elseworlds variation of the DCU. This also opens them up to have a film adaptation of Infinite Crisis once they find a writing/directing team that starts making objectively great films again. Nerds like me already assume that the movies are Elseworlds tales already but pushing the Elseworlds brand on the general viewing public could be a great boon for DC and WB if only because it's an easy out to explain why there have been so many Batmen, why there are so many Flashes, etc.

As for actual things that I would do...Zack Snyder and Nolan can be retired from here on out. Batman should also be benched for a few years but that would be unrealistic considering how profitable he is. When it comes to the animated films though, I don't know what to do with those. On paper they seem to be fine but something happens during production that just...screws them up. The most direct thing I could do would be to make them completely sexless since Killing Joke and Judas Contract (mostly Killing Joke) had their weird, weird sex bits that should have just been left out.

I still want Zacky boy to make movies. He has talent.

 

[Natemans]

Two things: First I call it the DC Film Universe (DCFU) and the second thing is kind of a 'get out of fuck-up free' card and it's the one that DC has always had up its sleeve:

Just slap that onto every DCFU film (and pre-DCFU film I guess) and push the idea that all of these films are their own things taking place in their own Elseworlds variation of the DCU. This also opens them up to have a film adaptation of Infinite Crisis once they find a writing/directing team that starts making objectively great films again. Nerds like me already assume that the movies are Elseworlds tales already but pushing the Elseworlds brand on the general viewing public could be a great boon for DC and WB if only because it's an easy out to explain why there have been so many Batmen, why there are so many Flashes, etc.

As for actual things that I would do...Zack Snyder and Nolan can be retired from here on out. Batman should also be benched for a few years but that would be unrealistic considering how profitable he is. When it comes to the animated films though, I don't know what to do with those. On paper they seem to be fine but something happens during production that just...screws them up. The most direct thing I could do would be to make them completely sexless since Killing Joke and Judas Contract (mostly Killing Joke) had their weird, weird sex bits that should have just been left out.

I still want Zacky boy to make movies. He has talent.

I don't agree. Zack Snyder's style of filmmaking is kinda lame the more I think about it. His cinematography in 300 and Watchmen was decent even if it was way too forced in places, but around Sucker Punch, he started to really go downhill. I don't get when people tell that BvS is gorgeous in cinematography because honestly its one of the most grey, ugly looking movies I've ever seen.

If you like it, that's cool. This is just how I felt.

 

[Natemans]

Two things: First I call it the DC Film Universe (DCFU) and the second thing is kind of a 'get out of fuck-up free' card and it's the one that DC has always had up its sleeve:

Just slap that onto every DCFU film (and pre-DCFU film I guess) and push the idea that all of these films are their own things taking place in their own Elseworlds variation of the DCU. This also opens them up to have a film adaptation of Infinite Crisis once they find a writing/directing team that starts making objectively great films again. Nerds like me already assume that the movies are Elseworlds tales already but pushing the Elseworlds brand on the general viewing public could be a great boon for DC and WB if only because it's an easy out to explain why there have been so many Batmen, why there are so many Flashes, etc.

As for actual things that I would do...Zack Snyder and Nolan can be retired from here on out. Batman should also be benched for a few years but that would be unrealistic considering how profitable he is. When it comes to the animated films though, I don't know what to do with those. On paper they seem to be fine but something happens during production that just...screws them up. The most direct thing I could do would be to make them completely sexless since Killing Joke and Judas Contract (mostly Killing Joke) had their weird, weird sex bits that should have just been left out.

To be fair, the Judas Contract sex thing was from the comic so blame Wolfman and Perez for that. Plus Terra was kinda a monster in the comics and the film was kinda a bit not the best at fleshing out Terra's character like the comics did.