Dead Island Torso Statue: Misogynistic? Stupid? Both? Neither?

[Legion]

If the pick-a-ninny analogy doesn't fit you, how about someone unwittingly performing a black face act without consideration to how it might be perceived?

Seeing as you said unwittingly and lack of consideration I'd call it stupid and insensitive.

I wouldn't call it racist.

And no, I do not agree with Peruviansky' analogy, because they specifically state:

But the attitudes and concepts and desires behind the creation of those dolls were absolutely racist and contemptuous and vile, and that means that the product created to satiate and exploit those desires was racist too.

Which is what I said: If they did not intend to express hatred or dislike of women, then they were not misogynistic. If people honestly believe they did it to express hatred or dislike, then yes, it is misogyny.

Peruviansky's example stated that the intent behind the doll was malicious, even if the dolls themselves weren't. I do not think the intent behind this bust was malicious. I think it was stupid, but not expressing anything or making any statement on their views on women.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That would be misguided, not racist.

I'm not asking how you would characterize the motivation of the person doing it. I'm asking how it would be perceived by onlookers, and whether the question of "Is this racist" would be seen as patently ridiculous, as some are claiming the accusation of misogyny is in this thread. I can tell you right now if I did a black face routine at the company meeting I would be fired, regardless of how misguided my actions turned out to be.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Which is what I said: If they did not intend to express hatred or dislike of women, then they were not misogynistic. If people honestly believe they did it to express hatred or dislike, then yes, it is misogyny.

I believe the argument is that it is representative of a passive misogyny that permeates the industry...as individuals, we are not always fully aware of our prejudices...and if the hostile knee-jerk vitriol that bubbles up on these forums whenever uppity feminists open their mouths is any indication, this "community" does have some issues. I hear the argument, and my response is "I can see why you might think that". I have no idea whether or not Deep Silver is actively staffed by misogynists and I wouldn't want to guess.

As to whether it was ill advised or a tonal misread, I guess that depends on whether or not the intent was to generate publicity through shock.

If nothing else, even as a horror/shock collectible it could have been better made. The breasts are ridiculous.

 

[Winnosh]

I don't get the whole response.

Oh it's gotta be someone's torso, making it a woman's isn't sexist. I mean seriously What The Hell??? First of all why would it be Any torso, that's just disgusting, second of all. it's a a woman in a bikini and thong without legs and a head... that's a fetish people a very weird fetish but on that is very real. A bloody dismembered sexualized woman's torso.

I have no idea how this got past PR

 

[Trucken]

My guess is that the bust is a parody. You've all seen the figurines of various game and anime characters right? Some of these have the characters standing in sexy poses wearing very little clothing. My first guess was that the people at Deep Silver thought "let´s make a sexy bust, but make it mutilated ('cause we're making a zombie game) so it isn't really sexy like most of these things usually are".

But, that's just my guess.

 

[Hagi]

Mind if I ask what exactly you were expecting from a Horror game?

Spoiler: Here's how Wikipedia describes a Horror film.

Horror is a film genre seeking to elicit a negative emotional reaction from viewers by playing on the audience's primal fears. Horror films often feature scenes that startle the viewer; the macabre and the supernatural are frequent themes. Thus they may overlap with the fantasy, supernatural, and thriller genres.[1]
Horror films often deal with the viewer's nightmares, hidden fears, revulsions and terror of the unknown. Plots within the horror genre often involve the intrusion of an evil force, event, or personage, commonly of supernatural origin, into the everyday world. Prevalent elements include ghosts, aliens, vampires, werewolves, curses, satanism, demons, gore, torture, vicious animals, monsters, zombies, cannibals, and serial killers. Conversely, movies about the supernatural are not necessarily always horrific.

It seeks to elicit a negative emotional reaction, kinda like the outrage here. They often feature scenes that startle the viewer, kinda like the initial reaction to this statue. It often deals with the viewer's nightmares and revulsions, kinda like the statue itself. Prevalent elements include gore and torture, ya know like on the statue.

It's supposed to be fucked up. It's supposed to be seen as repulsive. It's supposed to play on primal fears. It's supposed to be completely and utterly horrifying, that's what horror is.

It's cheap horror, sure. Take a female, something still seen as 'special' too often in this community, and display her mutilated torso, about the ultimate act of desecration to something held sacred for all the wrong reasons. And lo and behold, big surprise, you get a massive negative emotional reaction fed by repulsion and hidden fears.

The entire audience is now horrified. Congratulations. Mission accomplished in the safest and least imaginative way possible.

 

[Auron]

I think it might be cool for horror memorabilia fans, but I would never touch the thing.

Also what I think. Seems like a horror/slasher-movie fanatic's sort of thing. That's what I'm reminded of when I see this.

Beyond that, I also think people are making a big deal outta this. Especially RPS.

Now excuse me, I must get indoors before the shitstorm hits.

Yeah, pretty much that. But I think by now it's expected that RPS will invent outrageous social issues related to gaming so they can defend the damaged party with gloriously heroic social commentary. Disgusting as always, just like the FarCry 3 review and many other things before that.

 

[Piecewise]

I don't really get this. I mean, admittedly, yes, I don't really get why anyone would WANT that statue sitting around in their house, I don't get all the outrage.

I mean, you see that kind of shit all the time in the games! How many bikini clad women and shirtless men were hacked apart in your play through of dead island? Why do people not give a shit about it when it's in the game but the second it's cast in resin they're freaking the fuck out?

 

[Dense_Electric]

This does not mean that sexualising women or violence against women is misogynistic, it means that somebodies hatred of women can be expressed/manifested/shown in these forms.

Unless people are suggesting that this bust was created with the intent to express hatred or dislike of women, then it is not misogynistic.

Exactly. The other thing that pisses me off is that all violence committed against anyone with a vagina these days is immediately labeled as "misogynist." Violence against men is "violence," but violence against women is "violence against women." I've slaughtered tens of thousands of male antagonists in video games, and not all of them faceless goons. I've never heard anyone complain about how those games are sexist against men, even though in a lot of those games, only men get shot. So why is it the second I blow a woman's head off in a game, that's suddenly "misogynistic?"

I'm reminded of that fucking retarded Resident Evil 5 controversy, where the game was accused of being racist for depicting a white protagonist killing mostly/all back zombies in an African village. No, nevermind the fact that the game takes place in an AFRICAN village, where most of the residents are AFRICAN, nevermind that most Africans not from South Africa and parts of northern Africa tend to have very dark skin, it must obviously be racist. Just like how Brothers in Arms was obviously nationalist for depicting the player killing German soldiers, because the US was obviously also at war with the UK, Canada, and Russia in 1944 (bonus points, Hell's Highway was also sexist because it featured one woman getting killed. Nevermind the sheer number of eeevilll German males I massacred).

You guys get my point? Violence against a member of this or that race, sex, nationality, or whatever, does not automatically imply a hatred of people of that status.

 

[Legion]

This does not mean that sexualising women or violence against women is misogynistic, it means that somebodies hatred of women can be expressed/manifested/shown in these forms.

Unless people are suggesting that this bust was created with the intent to express hatred or dislike of women, then it is not misogynistic.

Exactly. The other thing that pisses me off is that all violence committed against anyone with a vagina these days is immediately labeled as "misogynist." Violence against men is "violence," but violence against women is "violence against women." I've slaughtered tens of thousands of male antagonists in video games, and not all of them faceless goons. I've never heard anyone complain about how those games are sexist against men, even though in a lot of those games, only men get shot. So why is it the second I blow a woman's head off in a game, that's suddenly "misogynistic?"

I'm reminded of that fucking retarded Resident Evil 5 controversy, where the game was accused of being racist for depicting a white protagonist killing mostly/all back zombies in an African village. No, nevermind the fact that the game takes place in an AFRICAN village, where most of the residents are AFRICAN, nevermind that most Africans not from South Africa and parts of northern Africa tend to have very dark skin, it must obviously be racist. Just like how Brothers in Arms was obviously nationalist for depicting the player killing German soldiers, because the US was obviously also at war with the UK, Canada, and Russia in 1944 (bonus points, Hell's Highway was also sexist because it featured one woman getting killed. Nevermind the sheer number of eeevilll German males I massacred).

You guys get my point? Violence against a member of this or that race, sex, nationality, or whatever, does not automatically imply a hatred of people of that status.

This is how I look at it as well. Intent and context are very important for distinguishing if something is sexist, racist, homophobic or anything similar.

It is the same argument I use when discussing sexism in gaming in general. If a guy trash talks another guy, he is a "troll" or an "asshole". If he trash talks a girl then he is "sexist". Sure, he might be, but you cannot glean that just from the fact he acts like a bastard towards a girl. Not unless you know that he doesn't act like that towards guys as well.

 

[Ishal]

snip

It is not to my liking. Dead Island was a crap game made by a crap developer.

This bust is obviously there to turn heads and shock people, so I guess its doing its job. I think it just comes down to expression and if they came right out and said this was supposed to be misogynistic then.. well.. there it is.

The bust is offensive because it is meant to be. The setting of Dead Island is an island paradise resort where an outbreak happened...so naturally some zombies are gonna be in swim suits. But again its not to my liking, I'd prefer these things not be so prevalent as to overshadow everything else that the industry has to offer. What I'm saying is, when people think video games, i'd prefer these types of things don't immediately pop into their heads.

Its not my kind of thing, and I don't really buy that stuff anyways. I haven't reached that stage in my geek/nerd evolution cycle where I collect action figures and other memorabilia. I'm still in my larval form.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

My first reaction, as a woman, is that it is incredibly stupid and in bad taste, but not overtly misogynistic. If anything it displays some kind of cynical sexism against the intended target audience (late-teen and early 20's guys I'd wager) where the PR-department must have gone something like: "Just put some boobs in the collector's edition and we'll sell out quicker than water in a Saharan refugee camp".

I mean, there's no indication that this "statue"/atrocity, apart from sporting a sexualized female body (and we never see those anywhere else...) really holds any other aggression towards women. Just depicting a mutilated female body isn't really grounds for calling the misogyny card unless it is a part of a larger effort to constantly display wounded or dead women in a sexualized way. As I said, it doesn't stop it from being in bad taste and something pretty ugly and shitty to put among your other gaming collectibles though.

 

[orangeban]

Peruvianskys has basically summed up everything that really needs to be said.

But basically, the statue taps into society's really weird feelings towards women. You've got this mutilated statue, but it's also sexy. And it's clearly designed to be sexy (the breasts are large and basically untouched by the gore). It's a classic example of the violent sexualisation of women, and furthermore it's just objectification, you distil this person down to the stuff that *really* matters. Not the head (which would most likely be more disturbing), or something like a hand, no, the chest.

As for those who are saying, "Oh but they had to choose a gender, would it be bad if it were a male torso?" No. Why? Because you wouldn't get an oversexualised, mutilated male torso, that's the entire fucking point. But also, society doesn't seem to think that violence against men is sexy, and isn't fascinated with using distilling maleness down to only the sexy parts.

 

[SeanSeanston]

My opinion:

- It's not misogynistic (though maybe... they were actually fishing for controversy?... dunno).

- Objectifying? Well... it's an object based upon a fictional human being in a game based around a fictional story...
I don't really know what to say, but... umm... for a start, isn't what's being depicted here, even LESS than an actual object?

- It does look stupid.

- IMHO, it actually is offensive to me. It's the same old usual ****e of "oooh, stick boobs on it and gamers/men will love that.". It gets annoying to me.

They say "sex sells" but I really don't think they're right about that. Sure, SEX sells... like if you're in a brothel in Amsterdam. Things like this aren't even sex. I strongly suspect things like this (scantily-clad women in a game for no reason) are found in successful games and whatnot IN SPITE of them, more than because of them.
I can't be the only one, can I, who sees something like that and thinks:
"Hmmm... well I guess a lot of OTHER men must like that... hmmm... whatever."

I strongly suspect that's how most men feel. Then they possibly go on to buy it despite such things, not because of them.

Mirite? Or mirong?

It's a classic example of the violent sexualisation of women, and furthermore it's just objectification, you distil this person down to the stuff that *really* matters. Not the head (which would most likely be more disturbing), or something like a hand, no, the chest.

Except it's not a person. It's not even depicting an actual object.

As for those who are saying, "Oh but they had to choose a gender, would it be bad if it were a male torso?" No. Why? Because you wouldn't get an oversexualised, mutilated male torso, that's the entire fucking point.

Yet, is that really a valid point?
It wouldn't be a male torso because:
- They're targeting a heterosexual male audience. Fairly enough considering the demographics.
- They were using the classic tactic of "male gamers will buy anything with tits on it" to hawk their stuff. Which isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of their audience TBQH.

 

[Sigma Castell]

Neither.
Its a model of a torso missing it's limbs. That's literally it. I fail to see how this is mysoginistic, simply because it's a women's torso.

 

[SeanSeanston]

It would probably be sexist and racist if it was a white man too, because it's another example of females and non-whites being ignored in gaming ;D.

Then it's racist if it's black or Asian or w/e.

Should've just been a zombie head or something... with green skin.

My first reaction, as a woman, is that it is incredibly stupid and in bad taste, but not overtly misogynistic. If anything it displays some kind of cynical sexism against the intended target audience (late-teen and early 20's guys I'd wager) where the PR-department must have gone something like: "Just put some boobs in the collector's edition and we'll sell out quicker than water in a Saharan refugee camp".

Boom, exactly. Thank you. I posted my earlier post before seeing this, but this is exactly what I mean.

It's the old "Tomb Raider sold because of Lara Croft's breasts" argument.

*SIGH* I mean this whole thing is getting so ****ing old, not to mention the implicit sexism that it's ok to assume men are sexist barbarians and secretly want to rape every woman they see if only that pesky law wasn't in the way.

I mean, especially talking about gamers... who in the most part are under 35 at least. These cries of misogyny and sexism are largely holdovers from attitudes of a very different world where yes... women probably wouldn't have been taken seriously in certain jobs or respected in certain ways, but you know what? NOBODY UNDER 35 KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT SUCH A WORLD BECAUSE GENDER EQUALITY IS ALL THEY HAVE EVER KNOWN.
In the most part at least.

 

[Smolderin]

It's not misogynistic, It is just plain stupid. A stupid idea from a sub-par video game developer, moving on. I HAVE SPOKEN!!!!

 

[lockgar]

Blatant flame bait on the part of the publisher. The only "sane" people who would buy this would be hardcore horror fans, and it would then be placed next to the Jason Statue behind the hellraiser pinhead bust. Other then that, there is no reason to want it. Regardless of gender, where would you even put it? I already have Batman from Arkham City fighting Darth Malgus from The Old Republic, with a face hugger coming out of a boarderlands chest, on top of a Map of YS, infront of the replica Lancer from GoW 3. I have come to the conclusion that I have enough collector edition tat.

Also, if I was to place that anywhere as a decoration, someone would assume of I was crazy. So yeah, that is dumb unless you where already a collector of such "things of horror".

Maybe a kick ass Halloween decoration, but its kind of small and expensive isn't it?

 

[aguspal]

I dont give a shit about the advertsiments, the game is still averaguey and could have been better. I hope Dead Island 2 fixed the crappy stuff than the original had, it really has potentially to be a pretty good game honestly.

 

[Brad Shepard]

For fucks sake people, get over it, its just a silly little item, its ment to be a joke.