Deadpool will be pansexual in his upcoming movie.

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Lightknight

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
First off, transsexual really only applies to people who have had, or are actively seeking a sex change operation, so that's a bit narrow of a term when dealing with everyone who qualifies as transgender. I know quite a lot of trans folk who are non-binary, because identifying differently than your sex assigned at birth tends to add fluidity to one's gender identity.
It's still a binary pair centered around maleness and femaleness. Transgenderism by it's very nature enforces the framework of binary genders. It just establishes that the person's gender is binary of male or female can differ from their sex's binary of male or female.

It's only when you decide to hard-attach sex to gender that you start to get into fluid mechanics and that's counteractive to the point most transgender philosophy is trying to convey. People are just saying "fluid" because it sounds good. But it isn't accurate or a person wouldn't be able to make a case that their body doesn't match their gender. Gender is binary and sex is binary. It just reaffirms binary gender and not fluid gender.

People also confuse total or partial unconformity with gender roles with gender fluidity. "Well, I'm a guy but I like to sew" or whatever. That just assumes the notion that gender roles aren't themselves fluid with time and that our present society doesn't allow for much more lax roles than even the previous generation.
 

Jack Action

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Batou667 said:
Du Svardenvyrd said:
What does optimistic you say?
Not sure he exists.

But I suppose the best-case scenario would be that they somehow manage to depict Deadpool as a non-straight character in a way that's neither tokenistic and forced, nor comes across as heavy-fisted, self-congratulatory pandering that caricatures and defines the character beyond all his other traits. Basically, they weave it into his character without making him "Sexual Perversion Man".
Problem: Deadpool kind of IS Sexual Perversion Man. Avoiding that, having him treat anything with any sort of maturity would make him not Deadpool.

This is a guy who, when presented with the (reasonable) possibility that he might be a delusional psychopath who accidentally rewrote himself into believing he was one of his victims shrugged it off and concluded he can't be bothered to think about it because it's up to whoever's currently writing him.
 

Lightknight

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Du Svardenvyrd said:
Ok, this is Deadpool we're talking about after all. If the term "Pansexual" has a meaning at all, it has a meaning designed for him. The guy fucks the incarnation of Death, which yes looks female, but is still just a cosmic being and the incarnation of DEATH.

So add necrophile to the list.
I'm not sure the walking and conscious dead should be considered the same as a lifeless dead body. Even a sentient Zombie would likely be excluded from necrophilia if found attractive by others and able to produce consent.
 

Lightknight

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Du Svardenvyrd said:
Lightknight said:
Du Svardenvyrd said:
Ok, this is Deadpool we're talking about after all. If the term "Pansexual" has a meaning at all, it has a meaning designed for him. The guy fucks the incarnation of Death, which yes looks female, but is still just a cosmic being and the incarnation of DEATH.

So add necrophile to the list.
I'm not sure the walking and conscious dead should be considered the same as a lifeless dead body. Even a sentient Zombie would likely be excluded from necrophilia if found attractive by others and able to produce consent.
From a modern psychological/profiling perspective you're right of course. From a metaphysical perspective I think you can't get any more necrophilic than an affair with the incarnation of Death.
Haha, touche. That certainly does sound like the epitome of it when you put it that way.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Lightknight said:
It's still a binary pair centered around maleness and femaleness. Transgenderism by it's very nature enforces the framework of binary genders. It just establishes that the person's gender is binary of male or female can differ from their sex's binary of male or female.
Transgender is a more encompassing term than you think it is. It applies to people who are trans men and trans women, who fit within binary gender yes, but it also applies to people who don't fit within the gender binary directly too. Agender people who identify as neither gender, gender fluid people whose gender identities changes fairly frequently, androgynous people who identify as both genders, and the like are all included within the "transgender umbrella". Not even all trans men and trans women limit themselves to conforming entirely to the gender binary anyways, there are trans men who still wear women's clothing and visa versa.

Lightknight said:
It's only when you decide to hard-attach sex to gender that you start to get into fluid mechanics and that's counteractive to the point most transgender philosophy is trying to convey. People are just saying "fluid" because it sounds good. But it isn't accurate or a person wouldn't be able to make a case that their body doesn't match their gender. Gender is binary and sex is binary. It just reaffirms binary gender and not fluid gender.
The problem is that you're stating that the concept of gender binary and gender fluidity are mutually exclusive from each other. This is an argument that transsexual essentialist types use a lot, a lot of them are trans too, that you have to fall into the binary and transition, fully, to be trans. This isn't correct though, there are plenty of trans folk who don't transition at all, who still identify as the opposite gender, which means they're still trans. The thing with the binary being an exclusive thing is that sex binary and gender binary are the exact same thing when they're considered to be linked by biology exclusively. If gender identity can mismatch biological sex phenotype the static of a binary flies out the window, the idea of a gender binary requires that biology matches identity. Binary means men are men, women are women, and people are born that way, period. Fluidity of gender means that gender identity and gender rules aren't totally biological, thus not enforced by biology, meaning that people can behave in non-binary ways. Along with that gender identity and gender roles aren't totally set in stone on a biological level, meaning that people cisgender, or transgender, can brake the rules of the binary too. The point of separation is that transgender has an intrinsic self identity that does not match gender to sex, where as cisgender people's identities do.

Lightknight said:
People also confuse total or partial unconformity with gender roles with gender fluidity. "Well, I'm a guy but I like to sew" or whatever. That just assumes the notion that gender roles aren't themselves fluid with time and that our present society doesn't allow for much more lax roles than even the previous generation.
Gender fluidity is a term that applies to the breaking of gender rules, especially if one is breaking them in relation to their birth sex. People who express fluidity in gender role, behavior, and identity get their gender and sexuality challenged. Also people confuse gender fluidity with gender fluid identities, the former is crossing gender boundaries, the latter is having a gender identity that is subject to regular intervals of change. While the roles and rules might be more relaxed now than in previous generations, for cisgender folk not falling into binary line totally gets one's sexuality and gender questioned and teased.

Also just for example sake to show the depth of what transgender means: You can have a man who dresses a woman and performs the roles of a woman, but still identifies as a man, that person is not trans. On the other hand, you can have someone who was born male, dresses as a man and performs the roles of a man, but identifies as a woman, that person is trans, even if they have no intention of transitioning. This is because transgenderism is tied to a person's intrinsic identity, instead of being tied to gender role and presentation. Role and presentation are secondary to the identity, while a trans person can conform, they might not, because they might not even wish to transition.

You're also still ignoring how the dynamic of gender identity and biological sex plays into sexuality. Gay men generally date cisgender men exclusively, Lesbians generally date cisgender women exclusively, bisexuals generally date only cisgender partners of both sexes exclusively, and heterosexuals will generally date only cisgender partners of the opposite sex. There are some who identify as gay, lesbian, bi, and hetero people who are open to having transgender partners, but they're the exception rather than the rule. They're also not pansexual, pansexual people particularly consider physical sex and gender identity to be no barrier for selecting a partner, that's all.

Edit: You know I wasn't going to do this but it bugged me enough to actually do it. Explaining what transgenderism means to a trans person, when the person doing the explanation is cisgender, that's called cisplaining. That is patronizing behavior especially when directed at someone who not only lives the situation, but studies the subject constantly because it's necessary information to the person's life.
 

KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime

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Dr. Chandra said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
-snipped-
You spent a lot of words saying that you don't agree, but I'm not actually seeing what the non-binary part of "Non-Binary" is. If you're just chalking it up to an ineffable feeling one person has, that's not really a useful diagnostic criteria, now is it?
Binary, as in gender binary, addresses a state where there are two specific genders that apply directly in relation to biological sex. That means someone born physically male is expected to identify as male and someone born female is expected to identify as a female. That is binary. Trans folk who identify as a gender different from their sex assigned at birth do not fall within the binary, that means they're non-binary, because they don't fit into the gender binary. It is useful as a diagnostic criteria because gender dysphoria is a thing, being able to quantify one does not feel they were assigned the correct gender at birth. Though non-binary is just a general term for people who don't fall into the traditional binary.
 

Lightknight

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MarsAtlas said:
Dr. Chandra said:
You spent a lot of words saying that you don't agree, but I'm not actually seeing what the non-binary part of "Non-Binary" is. If you're just chalking it up to an ineffable feeling one person has, that's not really a useful diagnostic criteria, now is it?
Binary means two in a system. Most humans exist as one of two genders, man and woman, and they do it at an overwhelming degree, hence "gender binary". Its their personal identity. Not everybody fits in there though, hence "non-binary". Their identity is not one of the two that are most common.
Stating that you were born without a gender does not negate the idea that the genders that do exist are binary.

They aren't saying that they are some third gender, they are saying they are no gender at all. So they're not 1 or 0 or "2", they're nothing. This is also an incredibly longshot from fluidity of gender. Even if some group called themselves a tertiary gender then we would be talking three static gender identities. But this would be like saying that binary isn't really binary because it's possible for there to be nothing in addition to 1 and 0. And besides, what does that even mean to be gender neutral? What is being a "man" supposed to "feel" like? I don't have some kind of internal mental state where I strongly identify as a man. I really don't personally think in terms of gender at all personally. I just think, "hmm, I have a dick therefore I'm a man". Am I secretly agender and just didn't know it because I don't even consider gender identity?

Again, it must be understood that the very nature of transgenderism supports gender binary. Otherwise they wouldn't feel the need to make their bodies match their gender since gender fluidity wouldn't require them to feel like the part physically.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying anything against transgenderism. I'm just saying that the nonsense about fluidity being thrown around just isn't born out in transgenderism. The idea of non corresponding gender to sex, same binary to same binary results is what they present. I'm just discussing the logical conclusion of the nature of transgenderism and the statement that one's gender can be incongruent with one's body to the point of warranting surgery must inherently require a binary system in which the 1 is paired with a 0 and as such a problem occurs. People who think they're favoring transgenderism when they argue fluidity are actually running counterproductive to their condition and belittling their need to have change to assist in the dysphoric condition they can suffer where their sex does not match their gender. People need to begin to be able to consider and discuss this before just allowing terms and words that simply "sound good" to be used when the conclusion is drastically different from the intent.