Dear UK. WTF are you doing ?

[CentralScrtnzr]

People do talk a lot of shit about the misery of living in America, and many of those criticisms remain perfectly valid. However, it's obviously evil shit like this commonly legislated by European nations that makes me glad to live in a country where the protection of law for individual citizens remains more important and more enshrined in law than the government's reach.

You can't be forced to self-incriminate in the US. This UK law enshrines into legal code a method by which the judiciary can force you to self-incriminate.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

I don't care really, I have nothing to hide.

Who, besides criminals and legitimate organisations, needs to encrypt any data.

Anyone who is actually smart and has any sensitive information on something like a laptop.

And by sensitive information you mean...?

Also, don't patronise me.

Bank accounts, receipts, passwords, contact information, addresses, and the list goes on.

Why would you need to keep any of that stuff on your computer?

 

[DancePuppets]

That site reminds me of those far-right "New World Order" conspiracy nuts...

Anyway, nothing is actually law in the UK until you have a successful test case. That's the great thing about case-based law. I see no such test case in that article (scanning quickly) which means they're just coming up with whatever interpretation of the law sounds most outrageous.

You can play this game with a lot of stuff in UK law. Until 1997 it was "law" that anyone drawing graffiti on a ship of the Royal Navy must be hanged. Clearly, this law had not actually been upheld by a judge and jury in quite some time!

Also it's technically illegal under anti-terror laws to have any information that may be of use to terrorists, ie. holiday snaps of the houses of parliament, a physics degree, a chemistry degree, a book on flying planes, you could even argue a cookbook was illegal as it can be used to feed those dirty terrorists. The law is so poorly worded that if it was ever used in court the case would be dismissed.

Plus dodgy laws like the one in the original post would either be dismissed in British court or by the European court of human rights as it's clearly not tenable.

 

[theonecookie]

People do talk a lot of shit about the misery of living in America, and many of those criticisms remain perfectly valid. However, it's obviously evil shit like this commonly legislated by European nations that makes me glad to live in a country where the protection of law for individual citizens remains more important and more enshrined in law than the government's reach.

You can't be forced to self-incriminate in the US. This UK law enshrines into legal code a method by which the judiciary can force you to self-incriminate.

Wow so in America you can just tell the police ( who have warrants ) to just fuck off no wonder its so good over there

 

[fletch_talon]

There needs to be a Godwin's law variant for 1984/George Orwell references.

I also love how people deem it a good thing that people in their country have the right to waste police time (and therefore taxpayer money) by refusing to unencrypt data which according to them is hiding perfectly legal information.

So hooray for a law which by definition only benefits criminals, because the right to not incriminate yourself comes in so handy for people who aren't criminals.

 

[tthor]

European Court of Human Rights is the greater power. If you appeal to it then the ruling will fall apart. Learn your international law before you go making threads like this.

And America really does not want to get into a 'who takes away the most personal rights from its citizens' debate. Glass houses and stones people, glass houses and stones.

i think it's important to remember that EVERYWHERE is crazy in some godforsaken way. The US, Australia, the UK, we all have our dirty laundry

 

[MetalMagpie]

That site reminds me of those far-right "New World Order" conspiracy nuts...

Anyway, nothing is actually law in the UK until you have a successful test case. That's the great thing about case-based law. I see no such test case in that article (scanning quickly) which means they're just coming up with whatever interpretation of the law sounds most outrageous.

You can play this game with a lot of stuff in UK law. Until 1997 it was "law" that anyone drawing graffiti on a ship of the Royal Navy must be hanged. Clearly, this law had not actually been upheld by a judge and jury in quite some time!

Also it's technically illegal under anti-terror laws to have any information that may be of use to terrorists, ie. holiday snaps of the houses of parliament, a physics degree, a chemistry degree, a book on flying planes, you could even argue a cookbook was illegal as it can be used to feed those dirty terrorists. The law is so poorly worded that if it was ever used in court the case would be dismissed.

Plus dodgy laws like the one in the original post would either be dismissed in British court or by the European court of human rights as it's clearly not tenable.

*gasp* I have an engineering degree and a flight sim game!

There needs to be a Godwin's law variant for 1984/George Orwell references.

Agreed. Also for references to "political correctness gone mad".

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

Welcome the entire population of the UK to the farcical league of meanness. Its a division below the league of evil. Tough luck guys.

 

[DoPo]

I wish The Escapist would introduce a 'FOR-FUCK-SAKE' filter... save some people going full retard and reporting on shite like this.

I like the idea. But the Escapist servers may melt down from pressing the "Report bullshit" button.

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

People do talk a lot of shit about the misery of living in America, and many of those criticisms remain perfectly valid. However, it's obviously evil shit like this commonly legislated by European nations that makes me glad to live in a country where the protection of law for individual citizens remains more important and more enshrined in law than the government's reach.

You can't be forced to self-incriminate in the US. This UK law enshrines into legal code a method by which the judiciary can force you to self-incriminate.

Wow so in America you can just tell the police ( who have warrants ) to just fuck off no wonder its so good over there

The police cannot force you to give up any password to encrypted material; that would be equivalent to forcing you to sign a confession. This doesn't stop them from trying other methods to access the material; this just means that they cannot compel you to aid their investigation against you.

It's no good being thin-skinned and apt to give quarrel to those who intended none.

 

[Verzin]

/vomit.

I'm so sick of moronic laws and the massive idiots that make them and support them.
I'm so sick of this shit. It's not just stuff as ridiculous of this, stuff just as bad or even worse is everwhere...

I just don't GET IT. How the FUCK does shit like this get passed without outcry?

Why are laws like this getting passed and upheld WITHOUT any sort of publicized protest or outrage? It feels like you have to hunt down information on our governments and what they're doing..

We're so fucking ridiculous. (The people of democratized countries, that is.) I doubt we'll even recognize the world we live in in a few decades.

To quote George Orwell: "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

Seeing as I fear many in this thread cannot comprehend the reasons to fear the ever-growing reach of the government, and the judiciary by proxy let me provide the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination

The fifth amendment, the one regarding protection against self-incrimination is relevant for the following (derived FTA) "Historically, the legal protection against self-incrimination is directly related to the question of torture for extracting information and confessions."

The fifth exists precisely to prohibit torture and to also prevent the miscarriage of justice by compelling false confessions. OP even mentioned that this UK law criminalizing data encryption is very likely to give rise to miscarriage of justice as law enforcement could demand encryption keys to either totally unencrypted information, or encrypted information whose key the subject does not possess.

There's a reason the protections exist. I genuinely sympathize with those who lack such protections.

 

[theonecookie]

People do talk a lot of shit about the misery of living in America, and many of those criticisms remain perfectly valid. However, it's obviously evil shit like this commonly legislated by European nations that makes me glad to live in a country where the protection of law for individual citizens remains more important and more enshrined in law than the government's reach.

You can't be forced to self-incriminate in the US. This UK law enshrines into legal code a method by which the judiciary can force you to self-incriminate.

Wow so in America you can just tell the police ( who have warrants ) to just fuck off no wonder its so good over there

The police cannot force you to give up any password to encrypted material; that would be equivalent to forcing you to sign a confession. This doesn't stop them from trying other methods to access the material; this just means that they cannot compel you to aid their investigation against you.

It's no good being thin-skinned and apt to give quarrel to those who intended none.

Then the police can't force you to open the door they can just break it down. Not following
the logic on why one is better than the other

Edit wow I should proofread better

 

[fletch_talon]

The police cannot force you to give up any password to encrypted material; that would be equivalent to forcing you to sign a confession.

No.
Its like unlocking the door when police produce a warrant to search your house.

The only time its remotely like signing a confession is when the encrypted data contains indisputable evidence that you have comitted a crime, even then you have the ability to argue against it in a court of law if you choose to plead innocent.

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Well this law will only be brought out in cases where evidence that could convict a fellon is been withheld willfully by the defendant. I see this as being no different from a warrent been issued to search someones premesis if they are under suspicion of nefarious deeds.

A bigger problem comes from an American law... *riposte*

...a law that allows the govenment to seize all data from a server if it is suspected to contain evidence relevent to a single case. With potentially thousands of individuals storing information on a server, the American government can invade the privacy of innocent people by proxy. Worse yet the law is enacted not by who owns the server, but it's physical location. As it stands, the entirety of, let say... the curiculum, student information, and research logs of Sydney University could be seized by American agents because it also happend to be the server on which an American criminal posted his blog.

Now that is fucked beyond belief and is totally legit at present.

Remember when we used to have privacy? I know it just sounds like an insane pipe-dream now but...we actually did, once. People could really do their everyday activities without needed to keep looking over their shoulders.