Dear Users Complaining About Moderators

[lacktheknack]

So I was scouring through the Off Topic section after a bad day, and I saw this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.855046-Dear-Moderators

...and I can't stand it any more. Over and over, I see the same complete falsehoods repeated as if they've ever, EVER been considered true by anyone in-the-know at any point, and I can't believe that I still have an opportunity, years after I thought we were done with this mess, to set the record straight.

So, here's me setting the record straight.

1. Mods have no real power on this site.

Everything they do can easily be overturned, they're scrutinized by forumgoers AND the staff, they get in trouble with both, and they have a strict ruleset to follow.

They can only do three things: Impart mod-wrath, (un)lock threads, and (un)"sink" threads (remove them from turning up on the search bar). And, I repeat, ALL of these can be undone in an instant by an actual paid staff member.

"Stop abusing your powers" is a ludicrous statement, because it implies that the mods have any notable, not-immediately-overruled power on the site. They're delegates to the big dogs, and nothing more.

2. Mods are being held to multiple standards.

For the sake of example, let's look at the Jimquisition Adblock thread. Jim said he wanted the comment thread to be a place where one could freely comment on Adblock. No one told the mods.

So, now the mods are expected to ban the Adblock advocacy posts in that thread, and will get in trouble if they do not. On the other hand, the Content Creator who made the thread doesn't want them to intervene. What is the mod supposed to do here?

I'm sure you can tell me all kinds of things that the Content Creator and the main staff should have done, as well as point at a failure in communication or two directed at the mods, but everyone was ready to murder the mods, so clearly THEY were supposed to wrath and ignore the posts at the same time. If you figure out how to do this, please tell them. They'll love you forever.

Also, there was an infamous moment recently where someone was wrathed for posting "" and nothing else, a clear infraction under "low-content" rules. This was repealed, the mod in question got in trouble (yes, TROUBLE, for following the ruleset), and everyone had a whinge-fest, because the poster in question claimed to be depressed.

Later that day, someone complained that the mods hold "double standards".

Why, yes.

Yes they do.

3. Mods have little to no control over what gets you banned.

Infractions stack, end of story. If you find yourself complaining that someone was perma-banned for a not-that-bad infraction, read the goddamned Forum Rules again, like you were supposed to in the first place. The Escapist is not 4chan. The Escapist has a ruleset that is not subject to "bad and not-bad" infractions or the mod's mood. Everything's run by the computer. Complain to the staff if you don't like it, or go post somewhere else that follows a ruleset that you prefer (have you tried 4chan?).

4. If you do desire to complain about a wrathing, mods CAN NOT help you.

As I said, they can do three things, wrath, (un)lock or (un)sink threads. None of these are "manually repeal a wrath", so they can do nothing to help you. Use this instead.

If you have a general complaint about moderation, then again, complaining to a mod is useless. Why not complain to someone who actually has power, such as the <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/profiles/articles/DrStrangelove>Community Manager?

5. "But I don't find it offensive!" is meaningless.

The mods follow <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct>this. You should also follow <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct>this.

You only signed "I AGREE" under <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct>this before you were allowed to post, after all.

6. "I think this no-advocating-these-subjects rule is stupid!"

See above.

7. "I think this rule is stupid!"

See above above.

Why don't you try contacting someone important about your griefs instead of the mods who can do little about anything on that level?

8. Mods cannot lock official content threads.

It's not even an option for them. Don't bother asking. Use this if you want to ask for that as an option.

9. Mods cannot stop threads from disappearing a month after the lock.

Use this to push for that.

10. Stop assuming shit.

There's a freaking link at the top of every thread labelled "Contact Moderators". Before you say some wild factoid about the moderation that you're not 100% on, why not click that link and ask them if it's accurate? They'd like the company.

-------------

This list has been compiled through about 5 years of listening to mods complain in various channels throughout the site.

Please, make my day for once, Escapist. Educate yourself on really easy subjects before complaining about them... just... for... once.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I don't really understand the level of moderation drama, from either side.

I've been here here for close to five years now and I've never had any problems.
I only received one warning a few years ago and I knew I was getting that before I posted because I was intentionally being rude.
I was given a second one later but I appealed becuase I felt it wasn't deserved and it was taken away.

I really don't get why some people struggle to adhere the rules or accidentally break them. Sure, some of them can be quite vague but generally if you try not to be a total asshole and put some content in your posts, it's pretty easy to not experience any trouble.

Even then, even if the mods were bias and whatever else, I really don't get why people care so much.
It's moderation carried out by volunteers on a gaming forum. The way some people prattle on about it, you'd swear it hasd some real-life impact or something. A few individuals on this site seem to be obsessed. There have been instances where individual moderators have fucked up but so what? Like, really, what impact does it have other than a little green box on your profile in a gaming forum?

Edit: As an aside, I do think a handful of moderators could stand to be a bit less rude sometimes but I tend to attribute that to them actually, you know, being people, rather than just "the mods." I'd probably be rude occasionally if I had to put of with some of the complaints they get.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

I agree with this sentiment. I haven't been around that long as a poster and yet I do come across a post complaining about mods following the codes of conduct they were ordered to follow. Thankfully, they aren't too frequent. It is still irritating that it somehow hasn't sunk in yet that you cannot post low-content texts or that multiple minor infractions can, in fact, get you banned. Add on that the mods usually tell you what you did wrong.

Speaking of, it's not that easy to get mod wrath. I once put up a wall of text which got removed. Under a wrong assumption, I "fixed" it and reposted it. When they removed it a second time, they told me why it was being removed. Note that at no point was I given a warning.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

I like how people are always real quick to accuse us of "abusing our power", but these people never provide any evidence of this.
Funny that.

Isn't it normally standard practice here on the Escapist forums to provid evidence of claims made? "Citation needed" and all that?

The reason why there's no evidence of it is because it doesn't happen.

But you don't understand. How could you? You have a marginal amount of increased power over me and that almost nonexistent difference in authority makes you worse than Hitler because it affects me on an internet forum.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Eh. I certainly think the forum healthbar is a silly idea and that infractions should be contextual, but I'm not going to blame moderators for it. It's like blaming a judge. They don't make the laws, merely uphold them. So yeah, moderator hatred is definitely over the top and unfair, and there should be less of it. I definitely do not envy moderators their roles, for sure.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Dear users complaining about users complaining about moderators,

You're doing nothing to help the situation, just further cluttering up the front page. Stop it. The moderators can fight their own fights and take care of themselves, there's no need for you to rally to their defense.

 

[lacktheknack]

Dear users complaining about users complaining about moderators,

You're doing nothing to help the situation, just further cluttering up the front page. Stop it. The moderators can fight their own fights and take care of themselves, there's no need for you to rally to their defense.

...except they're asked not to. So they don't.

So people keep on posting idiotic non-truths, like what I posted in the OP. If I can dissuade even one person from spouting off about the moderation using nothing but made-up shit and annoying me, then I helped the situation in my own eyes and it was worth it.

Also, this topic is just as valid and worth ranting about as more or less anything else in off-topic. Why don't you want it here?

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Also, this topic is just as valid and worth ranting about as more or less anything else in off-topic. Why don't you want it here?

I hate threads that are made only to respond to other threads, especially if the thread it's responding to has already been locked. It's like you're taking an argument that has already ended, bringing it back, and then escalating it because now it has multiple threads dedicated to it on one page.

 

[lacktheknack]

Also, this topic is just as valid and worth ranting about as more or less anything else in off-topic. Why don't you want it here?

I hate threads that are made only to respond to other threads, especially if the thread it's responding to has already been locked. It's like your taking an argument that has already ended, bringing it back, and then escalating it because now it has multiple threads dedicated to it on one page.

In this case, it's more a question of "I've wanted to make this damned thread for about a year now and I'm ready to explode, so by golly, I'm going to do it".

Also, I never got in on the last one. Neither did anyone else. And that's a shame, because that thread actually had some stuff in it that certain people actually needed to read. So I've made one that people will actually have the opportunity to read, and hopefully won't get locked.

 

[sky14kemea]

Dear users complaining about users complaining about moderators,

Dear users complaining about users complaining about users complaining about moderators.

...I've lost my train of thought.

While I do feel this thread is a blessing for the Mods (Made my morning a lot better, thank you lack <3) I actually agree with you.

Threads responding to threads that are locked just to bring back a controversial subject do tend to end badly. I'm crossing my fingers that this doesn't happen here.

 

[Eamar]

I don't understand it either. One of the big selling points of this site for me is how well moderated it is. It's certainly a big part of why I've stuck around (we don't have to deal with "problem" users for long, we're not flooded with irritating low-content posts, etc). Sure, the mods slip up from time to time, but they're only human, and unpaid volunteers at that. The one time I got a warning, I felt it was unfair and successfully appealed it, no biggie. I didn't start a thread complaining about it, and I definitely didn't bear any ill will towards the mods.

If more people actually took the time to read the CoC and find out about how the moderation/appeals system works before launching themselves into the site headfirst, it would solve so many problems.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, I'd say the moderation isn't great, but then the standards set for moderation are pretty low, it's not easy to do at all well, and this site seems to do a lot better than most.

Yeah, I've gotten warnings I feel were a bit unfair, but I can get 4 of them before it actually matters, so, eh.

 

[EeveeElectro]

Yeaaah. Damned if you do, damned if you don't here.

Unless we sticky this thread or get an official one made up, this problem will just persist when new users join and don't read the rules and don't have much else going on if they find time to get upset over moderation.

I do hope people take notice of this thread and the Mods join the discussion so we can give each other feedback and make the forums better.

My only gripe is something I've mentioned before in that there only seems to be about 6 mods that actually do any work. Some are barely online which I understand because of real life commitments but perhaps a little review of them and if they want to continue moderating wouldn't go a miss.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

There may be one or two or wraths that I don't agree with, but it doesn't really bother me that much. The mods do a relatively decent job at keeping out those filthy undesirables people who make one word posts and people who are just here to rage and rag on others. There are plenty of other forums which are perfect for that, so they can go there instead.

 

[Trivun]

You know something, lacktheknack? I know me and you never really speak to each other on here, different online social groups and so on, but I used to really like seeing your posts. Now...

I like them even more. Everything you've said there is spot on, and it grates on my nerves too when I see people complaining about the mods when the points above are in play. They're caught between a rock and a hard place, and I can only imagine the difficulty the mods must face sometimes in trying to do the correct thing.

I'll admit, I'd love to be a mod here (still waiting for the call to arms... xD), but even then, everybody posting on this site needs to understand the process and just what a moderator can and can't do. End of the day, they're not paid (as far as I'm aware) and help out the site and community for the sake of providing a much-needed service - time and effort that's then thrown back in their faces by users who can't be bothered to read up on the basics.

Kudos to you, Original Poster. Kudos indeed...

 

[Zombie_Fish]

Infractions stack, end of story.

To add a bit of context to this, the reason why the infractions stack/healthbar was introduced was that a number of users were getting records of 15+ bans, yet none of their posts were individually bad enough to warrant a permaban. As much as the users complain about mods being too harsh, the simple fact is that it was introduced because the staff thought the mods were too lenient on repeat offenders.

 

[major_chaos]

Really? The Nintendo Defense Force wasn't bad enough, now we have The Mod Defense Force? You would think that they get legitimate death threats for how big of a deal your making, rather than just the occasional complaint. Besides they are fully capable of locking negative threads and wrathing anyone who gets too blunt criticizing them, so they don't need your help. And no, I won't stop, I'll still complain that Staff/contributors are not held to the same standard as users, I'll still complain that what passes as acceptable criticism of Staff/contributors/Mods is barely criticism at all, I'll still complain that "don't be a jerk" is a nebulous and inconsistently enforced rule, and I'll still complain that the mod chat is basically useless because if there is more than three posts in a day Topaz comes in and starts yelling at people and telling them that's "not what the chat is for"(God only knows what it is for at this point), and you calling me an asshole isn't going to change any of that.

The whole "mod sympathy" thing really confuses me. Mods aren't your friends, they aren't meant to be. They are like event security: they stand around looking big and imposing and glaring watchfully at you over their tinted shades so you know not to cause trouble.

Also the more I think about it the more saying this:

This list has been compiled through about 5 years of listening to mods complain in various channels throughout the site.

Makes you sound like a biased source. Of course you are going to stand up for them, based on that line you are close enough friends to speak to them in private and have been listening to their side of the story for five years. But the fact that you like them as one of their old guard bros doesn't really explain why a normal plebeian like me should.

 

[lacktheknack]

Really? The Nintendo Defense Force wasn't bad enough, now we have The Mod Defense Force? You would think that they get legitimate death threats for how big of a deal your making, rather than just the occasional complaint. Besides they are fully capable of locking negative threads and wrathing anyone who gets too blunt criticizing them, so they don't need your help. And no, I won't stop, I'll still complain that Staff/contributors are not held to the same standard as users, I'll still complain that what passes as acceptable criticism of Staff/contributors/Mods is barely criticism at all, I'll still complain that "don't be a jerk" is a nebulous and inconsistently enforced rule, and I'll still complain that the mod chat is basically useless because if there is more than three posts in a day Topaz comes in and starts yelling at people and telling them that's "not what the chat is for"(God only knows what it is for at this point), and you calling me an asshole isn't going to change any of that.

I'm not calling you anything.

I'm just trying to redirect you to the correct channels to complain. If you do that, then complain all day. I'm just irritated by people who fuss in threads about stuff that A. the people who will see it can do nothing about it, and B. are untrue.

And if you're not sure what the mod-chat is for, you could always, y'know, ask...

The whole "mod sympathy" thing really confuses me. Mods aren't your friends, they aren't meant to be. They are like event security: they stand around looking big and imposing and glaring watchfully at you over their tinted shades so you know not to cause trouble.

Also the more I think about it the more saying this:

This list has been compiled through about 5 years of listening to mods complain in various channels throughout the site.

Makes you sound like a biased source. Of course you are going to stand up for them, based on that line you are close enough friends to speak to them in private and have been listening to their side of the story for five years. But the fact that you like them as one of their old guard bros doesn't really explain why a normal plebeian like me should.

OK.

It's not like I HAVEN'T heard the "user's side" for the same five years, mind you...

 

[IceForce]

Frankly, I'm surprised this thread is allowed.
It was created to continue a discussion that had already been locked. And I thought rant threads weren't allowed? What about threads with no discussion value?

1. Mods have no real power on this site.

They're delegates to the big dogs, and nothing more.

Demonstrably untrue.

The mods get to decide who is being a jerk and who isn't.
A number of times now, someone has been a jerk to me. But nothing was done because presumably the mods decided the person wasn't a jerk after all.

For the sake of example, let's look at the Jimquisition Adblock thread. Jim said he wanted the comment thread to be a place where one could freely comment on Adblock. No one told the mods.

So, now the mods are expected to ban the Adblock advocacy posts in that thread, and will get in trouble if they do not. On the other hand, the Content Creator who made the thread doesn't want them to intervene. What is the mod supposed to do here?

I'm sure you can tell me all kinds of things that the Content Creator and the main staff should have done, as well as point at a failure in communication or two directed at the mods, but everyone was ready to murder the mods, so clearly THEY were supposed to wrath and ignore the posts at the same time.

I like how you try to explain this away, in an attempt at making it not sound as bad as it was.

But the fact remains. The Adblock fiasco was a huge blunder for the management of this site, and a PR nightmare.

The mods follow <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct>this. You should also follow <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct>this.

It's nice to keep linking that, but it's still horribly vague in places, (such as "Don't be a jerk", which I've already covered).

My stance is, and has always been: I don't care if we have light rules, or heavy rules, I just want consistency.

Someone should not be getting banned for calling someone else "pretentious", while at the same time someone insults someone directly, and nothing happens.
And to top it all off, I get a warning myself for pointing out these inconsistencies.

For best results, forum moderation must be as consistent and unbiased as possible.

 

[IceForce]

The one time I got a warning, I felt it was unfair and successfully appealed it, no biggie.

I got an unfair warning too, but when I appealed, nothing happened.

Just wondering, what did you write in your appeal? I'm starting to think I may have written the wrong thing in mine, which is why it didn't work the way I'd hoped.