Dear Users Complaining About Moderators

[IceForce]

I'll still complain that the mod chat is basically useless because if there is more than three posts in a day Topaz comes in and starts yelling at people and telling them that's "not what the chat is for"(God only knows what it is for at this point)

I discovered that the hard way myself, just recently.

What I found particularly surprising was the way the mod messages I received seemed to contradict the instructions on the group itself.

EDIT: Apologies for the triple post, there are too many things I forgot to reply to in this thread.

EDIT: EDIT:

I like how people are always real quick to accuse us of "abusing our power", but these people never provide any evidence of this.
Funny that.

Isn't it normally standard practice here on the Escapist forums to provid evidence of claims made? "Citation needed" and all that?

The reason why there's no evidence of it is because it doesn't happen.

Another thing people commonly say on this forum is "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

 

[DefunctTheory]

The view that the mods here are unfair is fairly amusing - while they can be a wonky, its not bad. Particularly when in the past, this mods on this site actually were unfair.

Unless you can point to a recent incidence where someone got suspended because the word fap is, and I quote, 'gross,' than I think there getting better.

 

[Something Amyss]

I really don't get why some people struggle to adhere the rules or accidentally break them.

I have three warnings. Two were utter bullshit. The warning notice I got accused me of things I absolutely was not doing.

Inquiring about these left me with no response, which has become bog standard for this site. I've been flat-out harassed by people via PM, and at this point I've given up on that, too.

It's easy to "accidentally" break rules when you're getting moderated for completely made up things.

Adhering to the rules becomes an enormous issue when asking a question suddenly becomes "trolling" because you "put words in someone's mouth" when asking a question intended to, you know, clarify a stance or statement.

It's easy to potentially stack warnings because the rules can be fairly capricious and infractions require six months of good behaviour. And I'm glad it hasn't happened to you, but that sounds like the argument people make for not wearing seatbelts. I haven't been in an accident, so seatbelts are useless.

I got an unfair warning too, but when I appealed, nothing happened.

Just wondering, what did you write in your appeal? I'm starting to think I may have written the wrong thing in mine, which is why it didn't work the way I'd hoped.

I don't know. I got the same response from an appeal that was basically "I do not understand how this counts as X" as I did to a later, more exasperated "are you kidding me?" one--nothing.

I can't speak as to whether or not this is typical, but my experience is just, basically, you're not going to get a response anymore.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

You touched on this a little Lack, but I think it deserves some more emphasis.

The mods don't get paid, they get pub-club for their trouble, that's all.

A person will not get wrathed for using the word "Adblock" or any variation of.
A person will get wrathed for admitting to using the plugin or advocating it's use.

The word itself is harmless, the non-wrath on this post can act as evidence of that.

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I personally like that these forums are well moderated, it's annoying when you've been to a forum filled with low content, rude users and spam and you have to wait weeks for something to be done about it, if anything gets done at all.

I really like that we can't see threads that do this, on the Escapist.

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[Something Amyss]

I like how people are always real quick to accuse us of "abusing our power", but these people never provide any evidence of this.

Part of what is so frustrating about this site is that use of the same diction you applied got me a warning.

I get the mods are not a hivemind, but it's amazingly frustrating to get warned for use of a turn of phrase you not only see used routinely, but used by the mod team themselves.

This has nothing so much to do with "abuse of power," but it did strike me as utterly amazing to see such language in such a thread.

 

[DrOswald]

I really couldn't say if the mods here are unfair, I have had very few interactions with them. I can say all my experiences I have had with them are fair. I have only ever been hit with a warning twice, and both times I deserved it. But I tend to stay far away from the line. Not out of fear of unjust mods but because the rules here are good. Skirting with the line often means you are being disruptive, rude, and not contributing to the discussion. Chances are if you just barely manage to avoid mod wrath then you are driving down the discussion anyway, just not directly violating the rules.

 

[IceForce]

I got an unfair warning too, but when I appealed, nothing happened.

Just wondering, what did you write in your appeal? I'm starting to think I may have written the wrong thing in mine, which is why it didn't work the way I'd hoped.

I don't know. I got the same response from an appeal that was basically "I do not understand how this counts as X" as I did to a later, more exasperated "are you kidding me?" one--nothing.

I can't speak as to whether or not this is typical, but my experience is just, basically, you're not going to get a response anymore.

I see.

Granted, it's anecdotal, but that still doesn't put my mind at ease.

Indeed, I'd be interested to know what was written in the appeals, in cases where warnings have been successfully removed.

 

[Andy Shandy]

Yeah, people complain about the mods far too much. Honestly, it's quite amusing at this point.

Haven't seen anyone get a warning where I couldn't understand why it was given.

 

[EvilRoy]

I like how people are always real quick to accuse us of "abusing our power", but these people never provide any evidence of this.
Funny that.

Isn't it normally standard practice here on the Escapist forums to provid evidence of claims made? "Citation needed" and all that?

The reason why there's no evidence of it is because it doesn't happen.

Whoa, somebody updated their avatar gif. It isn't grainy anymore.

Also, come on, have you seen the arguments on this site? People don't provide evidence unless they see no other way out, and its usually result #1 from google.

 

[Foolery]

Another thing people commonly say on this forum is "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

Or it gets deleted. At any rate, I find it best to not talk about the moderation most of the time. It goes nowhere and amounts to nothing. Just like this thread will.

 

[Mr_Spanky]

Tbh it's like any other site - there are rules and tbh I doubt most people don't read them. Myself for instance I got warned about a post (about my post no. 10 or something - cant quite remember) for something stupid I said (as in *I* said something stupid) and after that I was like "oh . . ." went back, read the rules and hey presto no warnings since. Wooo me.

Ofc the rules are open to mod interpretation but in general I adhere to the idea that if you think you may be cutting it fine then it's probably best to go back and either delete or rephrase what you've written. The point that the mods neither get paid and frankly (for the most part anyway) don't get much positive sent their way should be well taken by all escapists imo.

It's always easy to think you can do someone elses job better when you aren't the one who has to actually do it.

 

[krazykidd]

I personally would like it if mods told us why someone was suspended, given a warning or banned for a post. Or why a thread was locked. Sometimes i look at warning and i'm just like why did he get a warning for that. I have noticed that the gaming and off topic section have been getting a lot of locked threads lately.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I like how people are always real quick to accuse us of "abusing our power", but these people never provide any evidence of this.
Funny that.

Isn't it normally standard practice here on the Escapist forums to provid evidence of claims made? "Citation needed" and all that?

The reason why there's no evidence of it is because it doesn't happen.

I'm sure lots of people would love to provide evidence of mods unfairly using their power, but there's nowhere on this site to do that publicly, and if you do post it in one of the public forums you can more infractions and the thread gets locked instantly and you're told to PM the mods instead. Funny that.

It's kind of hard to provide evidence when you aren't allowed to publicly talk to anyone about how things are being handled, and it's impossible to publicly provide evidence when all that does is visit more mod wrath upon you.

There should be a forum, accessible from the little "forums" tab where users can voice their complaints. Not just about moderators, but how this site is run in general. Sadly this will never be because sites don't like public discussion of problems with the actual site, the people who run this place just like to stick their heads in the sand and pretend everything is great. As much as I love this site, there are a LOT of things wrong with it, and very little is visibly done to fix anything.

 

[Vegosiux]

Dear users complaining about mods, about complaining, or about complaining about complaining.

I used to mod some forums in times of yore. It's a thankless job, like so many others. Nobody thanks you when things go right, and you take all the shit when they don't.

These folks are mods, but they're our mods. We need to show them some love, not clonk them with a brick every time Charlie dances a foxtrot.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yeah that is one thing I never get about the people who complain about some of the rule/ guides on this site, clearly they didn't read it before fully register on this site.

Just wondering is the registration changes so that the code of conduct or the rule etc appear first before you fully register? That would be the more logical step to counteract those butthurt people who view their warmings were unjust.

 

[shootthebandit]

The one time I got a warning, I felt it was unfair and successfully appealed it, no biggie.

I got an unfair warning too, but when I appealed, nothing happened.

Just wondering, what did you write in your appeal? I'm starting to think I may have written the wrong thing in mine, which is why it didn't work the way I'd hoped.

Ive been here for a good while (on and off) ive got a multitude of infractions (all deserved). Eamar is also a regular too and all of her posts are within guidelines. She tends to be pretty squeaky clean when it comes to the rules. I personally have never read the CoC but ive learned from experience what I can and cant get away with and its cost me a probation. Eamar is clued up and knows the rules and I think shes one of the best posters on here and she is always pretty reasonable and adds a lot to the discussion. I tend to get along well with her (even if I disagree with her) because of this (she'll probably disagree)

Her clean record probably went in her favour and her warning was probably a one off. I suppose its similar to the police. If you dont have a previous criminal record you tend to get let off with a warning

personally im happy with the mods here. Ive got a high level of infractions with 3000+ posts but all of which are my own fault for low content or on the R&P section (seriously guys if you want a clean record avoid R&P). Ive stayed here because the banter is good and you can discuss complex issues with a good level of reasonablity without a flame war. You'll notice the guys who've been here a while are all pretty decent and its a good friendly site which welcomes everybody. If it wasnt for the mods this site would be a shambles full of spammers, flammers and griefers. As ive said already this is coming from a guy with a poor track record whos been on the receiving end of the mods wrath multiple times (all justified though)

You've got guys like daystar, lack the knack, dirty hipsters, krazy kidd, eevee electro and eamar...and many more (sorry if you didnt get a mention i havent got all day, but you know who you are) who have been here a while and add a lot to the discussion and know when to have a laugh

 

[major_chaos]

It's because they are necro'd threads. People replying to a thread which is months (or even sometimes years) old.

If necros are going to be against the rules, why not just get the tech team to make threats that haven't gotten a reply in X amount of time auto lock? And while the are at it having them fix the longstanding "user group chat doesn't show up at all" bug.

I'm just trying to redirect you to the correct channels to complain.

Ah yes the "correct channels". The ones that are totally private and free of oversight leaving the mods totally free to ignore them. The mods will never be accountable until grievances with them can be aired in public instead of a dark soundproof room.

And if you're not sure what the mod-chat is for, you could always, y'know, ask...

history suggests that would probably result in Topaz telling me to read the group homepage (which doesn't even seem accurate anymore) and stop "wasting the mod's time" by putting chat notifications in their inboxes.

I discovered that the hard way myself, just recently.

What I found particularly surprising was the way the mod messages I received seemed to contradict the instructions on the group itself.

That seems to be a recent thing. I think there may have been a behind the scenes change of policy we weren't informed of. Either that or the attitude of the mods has just shifted lately.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

The one time I got a warning, I felt it was unfair and successfully appealed it, no biggie.

I got an unfair warning too, but when I appealed, nothing happened.

Just wondering, what did you write in your appeal? I'm starting to think I may have written the wrong thing in mine, which is why it didn't work the way I'd hoped.

Ive been here for a good while (on and off) ive got a multitude of infractions (all deserved). Eamar is also a regular too and all of her posts are within guidelines. She tends to be pretty squeaky clean when it comes to the rules. I personally have never read the CoC but ive learned from experience what I can and cant get away with and its cost me a probation. Eamar is clued up and knows the rules and I think shes one of the best posters on here and she is always pretty reasonable and adds a lot to the discussion. I tend to get along well with her (even if I disagree with her) because of this (she'll probably disagree)

Her clean record probably went in her favour and her warning was probably a one off. I suppose its similar to the police. If you dont have a previous criminal record you tend to get let off with a warning

personally im happy with the mods here. Ive got a high level of infractions with 3000+ posts but all of which are my own fault for low content or on the R&P section (seriously guys if you want a clean record avoid R&P). Ive stayed here because the banter is good and you can discuss complex issues with a good level of reasonablity without a flame war. You'll notice the guys who've been here a while are all pretty decent and its a good friendly site which welcomes everybody. If it wasnt for the mods this site would be a shambles full of spammers, flammers and griefers. As ive said already this is coming from a guy with a poor track record whos been on the receiving end of the mods wrath multiple times (all justified though)

You've got guys like daystar, lack the knack, dirty hipsters, krazy kidd, eevee electro and eamar...and many more (sorry if you didnt get a mention i havent got all day, but you know who you are) who have been here a while and add a lot to the discussion and know when to have a laugh

Yay, I got mentioned.

For the most part I agree with you. I have a bunch of infractions, and for the most part they're deserved (the last one I absolutely knew I was going to get the infraction, but what I said had to be said), but there are a couple of infractions that I've gotten I felt were undeserved, and when I appealed them I never got a reply, not even a generic one telling me to screw off, nothing, just pure silence. As much as I appreciate the mods here, I do feel like sometimes they can be a little overzealous, especially in threads that they suspect might eventually devolve into flaming. The mods actions keep this place nice and civil, but every once in a while they go a little far, and can get away with it because of how vague some of the CoC is.

 

[lacktheknack]

1. Mods have no real power on this site.

They're delegates to the big dogs, and nothing more.

Demonstrably untrue.

The mods get to decide who is being a jerk and who isn't.
A number of times now, someone has been a jerk to me. But nothing was done because presumably the mods decided the person wasn't a jerk after all.

Oh, are you referring to that time where you were told that they weren't going to wrath Daystar Clarion because they'd have to wrath you too? I mean, you are the main advocate for consistency and all.

Also, again, the mods aren't the final stop on who's being a jerk. The staff are. You know... that part I just wrote that you conveniently cut out.

I like how you try to explain this away, in an attempt at making it not sound as bad as it was.

But the fact remains. The Adblock fiasco was a huge blunder for the management of this site, and a PR nightmare.

Oh, absolutely. But I don't see how the mods were at fault. They just did what they were told to do.

The mods follow <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct>this. You should also follow <link=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct>this.

It's nice to keep linking that, but it's still horribly vague in places, (such as "Don't be a jerk", which I've already covered).

My stance is, and has always been: I don't care if we have light rules, or heavy rules, I just want consistency.

Someone should not be getting banned for calling someone else "pretentious", while at the same time someone insults someone directly, and nothing happens.
And to top it all off, I get a warning myself for pointing out these inconsistencies.

For best results, forum moderation must be as consistent and unbiased as possible.

Indeed, there are no better advocates for a more standard ruleset than the mods themselves, since they're the suckers who have to follow them. Unfortunately, they have no power over that.

My entire point was that people are blaming mods for things the mods are not to blame for, and handed link after link after link to the correct pages to complain at, but you completely missed that. Again.

I'm just trying to redirect you to the correct channels to complain.

Ah yes the "correct channels". The ones that are totally private and free of oversight leaving the mods totally free to ignore them. The mods will never be accountable until grievances with them can be aired in public instead of a dark soundproof room.

The "correct channels" don't even involve the mods. They go clean past the mods and directly to the staff.

And there's nothing stopping you from posting their replies. I've done it lots.

And if they don't reply, then that's a problem with the STAFF, not the mods. I've sent multiple complaints to the current CM, and he's always responded to me.

What I see when I see fussing about mods is someone raging at the cashier of a grocery store because management changed the store layout without warning. As someone who's been that cashier, I have negative sympathy for these people.

I thought discussing moderation issues wasn't allowed in the forums. Isn't that what this thread is? Or is it ok when it takes the moderators side? I have no personal issues with the mods, as I genuinely earned the moderation I have on my record. I don't think they abuse their power. I do think they are human and have lapses in judgement occasionally. I think this thread is one of those times.

There's nothing wrong with discussing moderation. We've had multiple people complain about the moderation in this very thread (irony is painful), and the thread still lives.