Death... Should it be embraced, feared, both, other?

[AngloDoom]

For an atheist, death shouldn't be something to be scared of, at all. Any atheist who is afraid of death doesn't understand what "ceasing to exist" really means.

So yeah, I'm not afraid of death at all. I'm afraid of dying painfully though. But it's not the death itself, its what comes before it. I imagine if I'm in agony I'll want death to hurry the fuck up.

Question: Have you ever almost died?

I mean, I'm pretty afraid of death and I'm as atheist as they come. Of course, I won't be conscious to perceive my death, but I'll have stopped existing. That's worse than almost anything else, surely? You can recover from almost anything but death, and you can continue to form happy memories and experience enjoyment most times while you're alive.

Perhaps you're one of those people who makes a distinction between "death" and "dying", but I don't know of many people who've reached "death" without first going through "dying".

But not existing isn't scary. This is what I mean. If we are correct and there's nothing waiting us after death, then we won't know we're dead, we won't care we're dead, we won't have regrets that we didn't do something better or different with our lives, we won't miss loved ones. We will simply not BE anything at all. Before I was born I didn't exist, when I die I won't exist. What's scary about that? There's nothing to fear at all. From your post its obvious you're not one of these people: But when some atheists talk about the "fear of nothingness" I don't think they really understand what nothingness is. A lot of them I've heard say things like "eternal darkness" as though we will actually be conscious during this nothingness, which is nonsense.

Of course. The idea that we'll be conscious to any extent, let alone the extent to think "well, this is jolly frightening", is ludicrous. Then again, so is the fear of being shot in the face and dying instantly. If you thought you were going to die outright, then you would seem to argue it would be illogical to fear the bullet since you won't be conscious enough to realise you're dead. I'd argue that I'd fear the very fact that I wouldn't be conscious shortly after that person pulled the trigger. Sure, the moment the bullet hits that part of my brain that make me who I am and blows it into a thousand pieces, I won't be able to feel anything - but that's scary in exactly the same way being told you're going into an operation is. You won't feel anything, but your next conscious thought and decision may well be your last before you stop seeing.

If I knew I was going to die tomorrow suddenly and painlessly, it would suck because I would like to live longer, and I'd do the cliche things we'd all do on your last day, but I don't think I'd be scared because I know once the death has come and gone, I won't be there to care about it. I'll only care right up until that point. That's what makes it cease to be scary at all. How can I be scared of something when I know that once it has come and gone it won't be bad for me at all, it won't be ANYTHING for me at all.

I think this links well with the point I was making before: I don't know of many people who went through death without dying first. Whether or not you believe you're going to be conscious enough to feel fear after you die, you cannot separate the 'dying' part from death: it's separating the journey from the destination, or the plane from the flight. Then again this has gotten rather semantic and I think we are in agreement that being dead isn't as much as an issue as the whole 'dying' malarky.

It's kind of a peaceful philosophy really. Being an atheist should mean we have nothing to fear about death. Like I said though, what I am scared of is pain, and a lot of people do die painfully. But it's not the death part that's scary.

If anything I'd argue an atheist has more to fear from death than many other religious individuals. Many religions believe in an afterlife where you retain who you are, who you were, those memories and all capacities to think and feel. An atheist does not believe in that at all. I'd argue that if death wasn't as scary as many of us believe then a key part of many religions (an afterlife) would not exist.

Similar to how I feel suffering an accident and becoming a vegetable: I won't worry about it when I'm stuck in a chair unconsciously drooling and unfeeling to the rest of the world, but now I'm conscious enough to have the benefit of realising that it is quite frankly the most terrifying thing that can happen. If you don't fear losing everything you are and have, then what is there left to fear?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

snip

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I've taken in your viewpoint and I think you've taken in mine, but I suppose this is something very ingrained into our minds, like someone trying to explain their fear of spiders or fear of heights to someone who doesn't have those fears. I don't claim to really understand why you fear death, since you're an atheist too, but its obvious I'm quite alone in the fact that I don't fear death.

But, it's definitely my atheism that is the reason for that, and I think it makes my life a lot better as a whole; a lot less worrying about the inevitability of it all. So I think I'm pretty happy like this, atheism makes my life peaceful in this way.

 

[AngloDoom]

snip

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I've taken in your viewpoint and I think you've taken in mine, but I suppose this is something very ingrained into our minds, like someone trying to explain their fear of spiders or fear of heights to someone who doesn't have those fears. I don't claim to really understand why you fear death, since you're an atheist too, but its obvious I'm quite alone in the fact that I don't fear death.

But, it's definitely my atheism that is the reason for that, and I think it makes my life a lot better as a whole; a lot less worrying about the inevitability of it all. So I think I'm pretty happy like this, atheism makes my life peaceful in this way.

Makes sense to me.

That's what I'd consider the best part about 'atheism' as a term - it's so broad that it captures a wide variety of different people of totally different beliefs. I'm glad that your beliefs (and lack thereof) give you the peace of mind you have.

 

[Rastien]

Meh death is to be accepted.

Its inevitable, simple as that.

No matter what we do or try were gonna die and everyone we love, know and care about will die to, just the way it is.

So enjoy your time with them it won't last forever.

I don't know why but I felt an incredibly overwhelming rush of sadness when I read your post, even though it doesn't exactly cover anything I didn't already know.

Hehe i didn't mean it to sound depressing as it was, it's something i have come to realise myself now so i hang out with my friends and family as much as i can cope with .

Note i said cope ^^ somtimes i want to kill them, but i guess thats love.

 

[DaWaffledude]

I try not to think about it TBH.

 

[KINGBeerZ]

I think the show Community had one of the best perspectives on death, as shown through pierce's mother's death CD. "Life's only worth a damn because it's short. It's designed to be consumed, used, spent, lived, felt. We're supposed to fill it with every mistake and miracle we can manage, and then we're supposed to let go"
Who would've thought a sitcom could come up with something so poetic.
But let's face it community is an amzing show.

 

[Lunatic High]

Accepted. Its shame and regret of events/dreams/opportunities passed by in life that make it so scary once the finish line is within sight. YOU WILL DIE. And you only get less than 10 decades on earth. And even when I die? So what? Plenty of people around, what concerns me most is Ageing. The slow wasting away of the body around the soul. Your body, mind, brain, and even your bowels begin to fail you, and then what happens? You go to a doctor to get enough drugs so you won't notice the wasting until your deemed no longer fit for your own freedom, safety, and well being of your family. Make the most of your time, live healthy and never pass up a good thing.

I'M FOR ASSISTED EUTHANASIA.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

-3a. You'll get bored!
--How? The universe is ridiculously huge. I have a million billion years to experience as much of it as I want. And if I somehow run out of things to do, I have ANOTHER million billion to INVENT NEW THINGS TO DO. And anyway, being bored is better then not existing at all. AND if I do decide to die at some point, at least I'll know I didn't miss anything, which is more then can be said for you people who are content with 75-80 years. You won't even experience everything this PLANET has to offer, much less the universe. Yeah, where does the curse part come in again? Wait, I know:

3b. You'll watch your friends die around you!
--The hell I will. Assuming I got immortal through science, there's no reason they can't do the same thing. But maybe it's one of those "Genie in a bottle" deals, and I'm the only one. No problem, I'll just spend a million years figuring out repeatable immortality, and another million years inventing a time machine, so I can go back and give it to my friends. And everyone else. And don't tell me It'll create a paradox because now Past-Me has no reason to invent time travel/immortality in the first place. Of course he does, he doesn't want to make a fucking paradox. AND I would remiss if I didn't mention that mortal old people watch their friends die around them all the time. The only difference is, they can't do anything about it, and they don't have enough time to go make new friends.

3a. Fair enough, I'm actually hoping that it's possible to do this eventually. Although I've read something about how the amount of space available for memories is limited (at least conscious ones), and related to immortality they were saying that you'd basically fill up your brain so fast that you probably wouldn't really "live" a thousand year, as you'd end up a vegetable. *Shrug* Not sure what to think of that one.

3b. So you'd basically stop mankind in its tracks. If everyone (even if it's only everyone who wants to be, I can't imagine disabled and other critically injured people wanting to: sure if you can stop death you could probably regrow part of the body/mind eventually, but they'd still have to wait in a diminished state until then) can't die, there's no point having children, and humanity will just stagnate. Have you ever read Gunnm/Battle Angel Alita Last Order? It's a manga where you have recent enough immortals (someone found a way to not age using nano machines 200 years ago and spread it around) who have outlawed children and make a sport of hunting them. Now of course that's painting a rather grim picture, one I'm hoping will never happen, but hey, I'm not a great believer of human nature, especially right now. Hopefully, by the time we get your solution to death, we'll have changed enough to make living worthwhile.

 

[The Rainmaker]

It should be greeted with open arms. Finally when my time has come, I get to lay down my sword and rejoice with my friends in Sovngarde!

OT: I don't fear death, because I know that the only reason I should fear it is because it is the great "unknown", but experience has taught me that when I fear the unknown it usually turns out pretty good.

 

[Don Savik]

Everyone should fear death because it keeps us alive longer. I feel like not fearing death just goes against all basic instincts for the sake of being an internet tuff guy. I'm going to fight tooth and nail to survive as long as possible, taking every minute of life I can. I'm not going to give up because its "natural and inevitable" or some pseudo-philisophical crap like that.

Yes it happens to all of us, but nobody should embrace it. What benefits does having a defeatist attitude have exactly?

Conquer death, don't be a mindless herd animal sent to its death at a ripe old age who's last words were "yea, I've lived too long....ok..."

 

[Ashadowpie]

im not afraid of Death itself its actually interesting to me since its Unknown, no one solidly knows what happens when we die, it could be nothing-boring- or also could be something totally different then everyone thinks. who knows
What im afraid of How Death comes to me. horrid sickness? painful car accident, to dying in the most terrifying place of all in my opinion. a Hospital, in a Hospital Bed, hooked up to every fucking needle you can imagine. awful enough hospitals are the main place to die. i think i'd rather be eaten alive by sharks than be in a hospital death bed.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Being someone who grew up online I have made many older friends. Really old friends I have talked to about this and most seem to say the same thing. They are tired, they think of it as resting after a long long period of time awake.

So death really doesn't scare me, now dying does.

I would rather it not be painful and I would love for it to be in the company of someone who loves me and can hold me so I feel truly happy when the time comes.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Should we fear death? Should we embrace it?

We should avoid it. And when we can't it doesn't matter very much how you feel about it so make up your own mind.

 

[Toaster Hunter]

Life is joyous, death is peaceful. Its the transition that sucks.

 

[Yan007]

Atheist here. I'm 27 and I enjoy my life everyday. I technically died twice already, as in I went through dying, lost consciousness and was brought back.

The first time happened really fast so it was like fainting quickly. I was too fatigued and decided to keep working(months of sleeping a few hours at most every day or two days). My body would not use my food anymore (what the doctors told me was that I was basically starving even though I was eating) and my body was basically shutting down. I was at work and simply fell down unconscious. I went back to work a few days later and decided to shut down my company so I could live more decently (had a company, was a full-time university student and also a full-time job as well)! Did not really care about what happened except that I stopped fearing death.

The second time was when I was back from a trip abroad. In a matter of hours I became so sick and lost so much water that I could not move my legs and arms anymore. All I remember before the ambulance arrived was me holding my (now ex) girlfriend's hand and telling her I'm sorry because I wanted to be with her and her son. I wasn't afraid of dying, simply extremely sad that I would be missing on a future with them. My heart stopped three times at the hospital that night and I barely made it. In the end though the relationship did not last. I could never accept that when I woke up in the morning she wasn't there. This is what killed me, not death.

Sometimes I do forget about this and it's easy to think that life sucks,but overall I enjoy my life very much. I'm currently teaching English in China and I am helping my students in as many ways as possible and it feels great. I know that by being alive I improved their lives.I feel like I cheated death so I take every new day as an extra I stole from death. I enjoy living so much: gaming, teaching, playing the violin (sometimes ;p), bodybuilding ...


Edit: And given that I don't think there is something beyond death. I hope I'll leave behind a legacy that's good enough to help others after me. Bonus points if I can have the death of a warrior and die saving people (successfully, please).

 

[CrazyGirl17]

I prefer not to spend so much time thinking about it, personally. I like the keep the past and the future right where they are.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

-3a. You'll get bored!
--How? The universe is ridiculously huge. I have a million billion years to experience as much of it as I want. And if I somehow run out of things to do, I have ANOTHER million billion to INVENT NEW THINGS TO DO. And anyway, being bored is better then not existing at all. AND if I do decide to die at some point, at least I'll know I didn't miss anything, which is more then can be said for you people who are content with 75-80 years. You won't even experience everything this PLANET has to offer, much less the universe. Yeah, where does the curse part come in again? Wait, I know:

3b. You'll watch your friends die around you!
--The hell I will. Assuming I got immortal through science, there's no reason they can't do the same thing. But maybe it's one of those "Genie in a bottle" deals, and I'm the only one. No problem, I'll just spend a million years figuring out repeatable immortality, and another million years inventing a time machine, so I can go back and give it to my friends. And everyone else. And don't tell me It'll create a paradox because now Past-Me has no reason to invent time travel/immortality in the first place. Of course he does, he doesn't want to make a fucking paradox. AND I would remiss if I didn't mention that mortal old people watch their friends die around them all the time. The only difference is, they can't do anything about it, and they don't have enough time to go make new friends.

3a. Fair enough, I'm actually hoping that it's possible to do this eventually. Although I've read something about how the amount of space available for memories is limited (at least conscious ones), and related to immortality they were saying that you'd basically fill up your brain so fast that you probably wouldn't really "live" a thousand year, as you'd end up a vegetable. *Shrug* Not sure what to think of that one.

3b. So you'd basically stop mankind in its tracks. If everyone (even if it's only everyone who wants to be, I can't imagine disabled and other critically injured people wanting to: sure if you can stop death you could probably regrow part of the body/mind eventually, but they'd still have to wait in a diminished state until then) can't die, there's no point having children, and humanity will just stagnate. Have you ever read Gunnm/Battle Angel Alita Last Order? It's a manga where you have recent enough immortals (someone found a way to not age using nano machines 200 years ago and spread it around) who have outlawed children and make a sport of hunting them. Now of course that's painting a rather grim picture, one I'm hoping will never happen, but hey, I'm not a great believer of human nature, especially right now. Hopefully, by the time we get your solution to death, we'll have changed enough to make living worthwhile.

What do you mean there'd be "no point" in having kids? People could have kids just because they actually WANT to raise a child. And we wouldn't stagnate even without children. Death isn't the only thing driving progress. It's not like people only ever accomplish things because they're dying. People would still do all the things we do now(good and bad, though you could make the argument that in order to advance as a species to the point where we have unlimited space and time on our hands, we would first have to solve many social problems), we just wouldn't die. Diseases would still be cured, new things would still be invented, philosophies would continue to be explored. Virtually nothing in society would change (assuming we can colonize unlimited new worlds and won't run out of space), people would just stop dying.

And about disabled people: Let's just assume that somehow, we've managed to cure death but not all disabilities. If they choose to stay mortal, they will likely die without being cured. Their lives be short and miserable. If they choose to become immortal and wait for a cure, they wait for a relatively short period of time (relative to infinity, that is) and then get to go out and live a real life for as long as they want. Why would they ever choose death over that?

Now, about a world where children are outlawed and hunted: That's a social problem, and not inherent with the instigation of immortality. I know that was just an example, but the point is that ALL possible social problems that MIGHT happen as a result of immortality, would not NECESSARILY happen, and could be avoided. I'll use the same argument I used with the other guy who quoted me: Just because someone might stab we with a knife, that doesn't make knives a bad idea. Obviously just about anything can be abused, but that doesn't mean we should never use them. We just use them correctly. (i.e., don't start hunting children) And again: That's just a reason to wait until we have unlimited new worlds to colonize, (so we can have as many babies as we want) but not a reason to postpone immortality indefinitely.