Definition of a good strategist

[LandoCristo]

Alright, so my friend is pretty good at strategy games. CnC, LoTR: Battle for Middle Earth, Age of Mythology, he's even good at SC, although he doesn't like it. We regularly play CnC3: Kane's Wrath, and he can whoop the crap out of me and a Hard Bot teamed up without breaking a sweat. But I've noticed that he ever only plays on one map. It's called "The Rock", can hold up to 4 players, with four peninsulas surrounding a large central arena, and all 4 players have access to their own nigh-unlimited sources of Tiberium.

So my question for the Escapist is this: would I have a better chance if I tried to get him to play on a resource-restrictive map, and do you think that players are better if they can also manage limited resources at the same time?

 

[Chibz]

Personally I am at my best with almost no resources available.

Is such a thing available? If so, get really good at making your feeble resources go a VERY long way and challenge him.

 

[BVBFanatic]

I think your chances would be better, yes.

But honestly the mark of a good strategist is more evident (in my opinion) in games like the Total War series or Dawn of War/Company of Heroes. There is less reward for good management of economy, and more reward for being a competent commander.

Not to take away from someone who handles their resources smartly - logistics are important.

 

[IBlackKiteI]

Relic RTS's have resource management completely nailed, none of this hiding behind high walls with huge mineral stockpiles or anything.

You capture areas of the map to get resources, therefore your economy is tied to how you fight and how you fight is tied to how much fighting you do in the first place to get resources to allow you to fight more...(it makes sense...sorta)

Anyways, I don't think there is any real challenge in having loads of resources already available to you from the get go.

 

[Icarion (aka Stockholm)]

Try to play his game. Get up a base as quick as possible, and huge resource mines. Then just build several strong units, get up maybe 3 barracks and then keep building missle troopers or whatever they are. And then, have an armoured push against him, with your strongest untis up front, backed by the missle launcher guys. For Anti infantry, go with either copters or light armour. And if you can build artillery, have it sit back on your land bridge, and bombard the central area. I've never played Kanes wrath, and havent touched 3 in the longest time, but I think this might help.

 

[Veylon]

Surprised no Sun Tsu statement yet.

Hold on, I've got The Art of War within arm's reach.

Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances.

 

[LandoCristo]

Hm. You want the definition of a good strategist or a way to beat your friend? If the latter, I do recommend practising. How do you lose? How does he get the advantage? It's not just the map. Macro and micro along with a big ol' strategy. That's the ticket.

If the former, Parson Gotti. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0137.html

Well, I wanted this topic to ask the Escapist if they thought that a good player would be able to play on different maps and still achieve victory. I talked about my friend in the OP to give a bit of a backstory to the question.

Try to play his game. Get up a base as quick as possible, and huge resource mines. Then just build several strong units, get up maybe 3 barracks and then keep building missle troopers or whatever they are. And then, have an armoured push against him, with your strongest untis up front, backed by the missle launcher guys. For Anti infantry, go with either copters or light armour. And if you can build artillery, have it sit back on your land bridge, and bombard the central area. I've never played Kanes wrath, and havent touched 3 in the longest time, but I think this might help.

I normally go Nod or GDI, and he'll either go ZOCOM (a variation of GDI with an emphasis on Tiberium Troopers) or Nod. And the only time I'm able to make a good push is immediately at the beginning, when I can rush with four Flame-tanks, but after that he normally does a pretty good job of solidifying his base. Most of his tactics involve using the command abilities to wreck my harvesters and bypass my defenses, but even when I build with that in mind he just shuts down my powerplants and focuses on my harvesters. I suppose that a decent mid-round push might keep him offbalance while I build defenses, but even with three or four Refineries per node, I never get enough money.

Either way, he's having problems with his Macbook Pro, so he can't play, but I'm going to keep trying.

 

[Johnnyallstar]

The best strategies always begin by picking Charmander.

As for the questions about resources, not necessarily. Some people are better at managing large scale number crunching with tons of potential factors, while others are best when they can focus entirely on a very small scale. You may have a shot, if you think you're better as the latter.

 

[The Madman]

Play some grand strategy and 4x games like the Civilization and Galactic Civilization or, if you want to go more in-depth, than Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, Master of Orion, or even the Total War games. Sins of a Solar Empire is also pretty handy in this regard, though it's not turn based so much as just very slow but on a massive scale.

RTS are grand and all, I love em, but often it comes down to reflexes and speed over genuine strategy or even tactics. Extremely fun and certainly thinking games, don't get me wrong. But there are other elements at work as well as brain power, whereas games such as the above tend to rely purely on a solid strategy to win.

A very simple fun little game is also Castle Vox, basically RISK with a few tweaks. Fun to play against friends and deeper than you'd think at first look.

 

[Katana314]

I'm not sure how helpful this will be, since I only play Starcraft. But I will say this; if he's going for a strong economy, prevent him from doing that. In Starcraft, making a big army means you eventually have to spread out your base, and no player is going to keep a massive homeguard at every resource pile. Once you have a decent number of troops, prevent him from making any resource progress by destroying expansion areas with hit-and-run attacks by fast units. If he comes at you with his army, run away and hit his workers elsewhere where he's undefended. In the meantime, continue training new units for your own assault.

 

[srm79]

?Amateurs think about tactics, but professionals think about logistics.? -- General Robert H. Barrow, USMC

If managing his resources is his greatest strength, then take away that strength. Hit his resource gathering, processing and storage stuff as hard and as often as you can. Then it doesn't matter how good a battlefield tactician he is, because you've removed his ability to wage war.

Try forcing him onto other maps as well. He may not perform so well if he's not in his comfort zone.

 

[GrammarLad]

Remember, the enemy's gate is down.