DELETED

[Mikejames]

I loved the pacing in Silent Hill 2 and Shattered Memories. They offer a good build-up to things as the setting and characters become more and more disorientating as you question what's really going on.

Yes! Both are excellent examples of pacing. I think Shattered Memories, the worse game of the two by all accounts, has probably even better pacing than SH2. The game, for all its lackluster gameplay, has a seamless way of unfolding its plot and characters. By comparison, SH2 tends to go on a limb regarding narration. The first "level" (the tenement building) always has me wondering - just what the hell is James trying to accomplish here?

I think they set out to do and succeed at different things. A lot of the strange puzzles and room exploration in Silent Hill 2 don't have a huge narrative impact on the story, but they help establish the atmosphere of a deteriorating town and what James and the other characters are psychologically going through.

Shattered Memories is less scary overall, but I really like how a lot of the characters come across as disorienting in how they act completely normal. Everyone comes across as unstable in SH2, but in Shattered Memories you question if you're the only one losing it.

My 2 cents would be Beyond Good & Evil, which is built as tightly as a spy movie. The intro attack, the journey to the garage and the city, the Big Bro screens presenting the villain, the first secret assignment, the spy HQ, the infiltration of the factory and the slaughterhouse, the plot slowly unraveling a conspiracy... I can't think of any excess fat. Even the racing sections, which most people hate, give a shade of authenticity to the whole underworld atmosphere. Love the game, very good writing.

My only complaint about Beyond Good and Evil's story would probably be the ending.

Spoiler

I understand building up a connection to the Domz, but I wasn't a fan of Jade getting super powers at the last second. Made Pey'j's resurrection a bit abrupt, and the cliffhanger's still painful.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I loved the pacing in Silent Hill 2 and Shattered Memories. They offer a good build-up to things as the setting and characters become more and more disorientating as you question what's really going on.

Yes! Both are excellent examples of pacing. I think Shattered Memories, the worse game of the two by all accounts, has probably even better pacing than SH2. The game, for all its lackluster gameplay, has a seamless way of unfolding its plot and characters. By comparison, SH2 tends to go on a limb regarding narration. The first "level" (the tenement building) always has me wondering - just what the hell is James trying to accomplish here?

I think they set out to do and succeed at different things. A lot of the strange puzzles and room exploration in Silent Hill 2 don't have a huge narrative impact on the story, but they help establish the atmosphere of a deteriorating town and what James and the other characters are psychologically going through.

Shattered Memories is less scary overall, but I really like how a lot of the characters come across as disorienting in how they act completely normal. Everyone comes across as unstable in SH2, but in Shattered Memories you question if you're the only one losing it.

My 2 cents would be Beyond Good & Evil, which is built as tightly as a spy movie. The intro attack, the journey to the garage and the city, the Big Bro screens presenting the villain, the first secret assignment, the spy HQ, the infiltration of the factory and the slaughterhouse, the plot slowly unraveling a conspiracy... I can't think of any excess fat. Even the racing sections, which most people hate, give a shade of authenticity to the whole underworld atmosphere. Love the game, very good writing.

My only complaint about Beyond Good and Evil's story would probably be the ending.

Spoiler

I understand building up a connection to the Domz, but I wasn't a fan of Jade getting super powers at the last second. Made Pey'j's resurrection a bit abrupt, and the cliffhanger's still painful.

The thing with the apartment building in SH2 is there really is no reason for him to be there. I mean he goes to Rosewater Park because he thinks that's Mary's "special place"... and then he goes to Brookhaven because he chases Laura there, who ostensibly has info on Mary... and he drops through Toluca Prison because he's heading to the hotel, which is his second guess as to Mary's "special place"... the apartment building, though, has no place in the narrative. There is no reason whatsoever for James to be there, except that the player has run out of choices and this one door happens to open. And it's a pretty lengthy section of puzzle-solving and item-fetching without any real indication as to what are you doing and why are you doing it. It obviously helps establish atmosphere and lots of plot points - meeting Angela a 2nd time, meeting Eddie and PH for the first - but there's no narrative framing, at all.

About BG&E, yeah, the cliffhanger is a huge pain, considering it doesn't make any sense and it's such an obvious sequel hook. But the story's over by then, so it doesn't really hurt or tear down the excellent pacing the game carried throughout.

 

[Casual Shinji]

RE4 rocks my world, but it's all downhill for me once you escape the village.

I'll agree that the village is the best part. It's the most intimate and primal, and it also helps that it channels The Texas Chainsaw Massacre to a wonderful degree.

But I just love how the castle continuously finds new ways to up the stakes. Just when you thought you couldn't run into even more overwhelming odds, you suddenly find yourself trapped in a boiler room with two el Gigantes.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

RE4 rocks my world, but it's all downhill for me once you escape the village.

I'll agree that the village is the best part. It's the most intimate and primal, and it also helps that it channels The Texas Chainsaw Massacre to a wonderful degree.

But I just love how the castle continuously finds new ways to up the stakes. Just when you thought you couldn't run into even more overwhelming odds, you suddenly find yourself trapped in a boiler room with two el Gigantes.

The problem with the castle - and its inhabitants, and everything else that ensues - is that it reminds me too much of the Rocky Horror Picture Show. So much, in fact...


I feel campiness taking over. Except for the regenerator part. Everything else kind of kills the mood.

 

[Casual Shinji]

RE4 rocks my world, but it's all downhill for me once you escape the village.

I'll agree that the village is the best part. It's the most intimate and primal, and it also helps that it channels The Texas Chainsaw Massacre to a wonderful degree.

But I just love how the castle continuously finds new ways to up the stakes. Just when you thought you couldn't run into even more overwhelming odds, you suddenly find yourself trapped in a boiler room with two el Gigantes.

The problem with the castle - and its inhabitants, and everything else that ensues - is that it reminds me too much of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

I feel campiness taking over. Except for the regenerator part. Everything else kind of kills the mood.

Oh come, that's what so freaking great about it.

I mean, the moment you meet Mendez the cheese just starts to ooze, with Leon performing a roadhouse kick for no reason. Then you meet Sadler in the church, and he gives an elaborate speech about how the president's daughter is integral to his plans (which is already a really, really, really stupid plan). And what's the next thing he does..? Call in two monks to shoot flaming arrows at her.

The whole thing is just so silly, and the game never tries to act like it's anything but. Making it the first Resident Evil game where I actually enjoyed the story.

 

[rgumai]

I liked the pacing in Tomb Raider (2013), kept moving forward but gave you the ability to go back and explore if you so wanted. The forward pacing was break neck and pretty fantastic.

Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit had solid pacing.

The best, imo, is still The Beast Within. That one was paced like a great book with all the individual pieces coming together at a constant rhythm. 18 years later, it's still top notch (story wise, the FMV gameplay is another thing altogether). King's Quest VI also had fantastic pacing.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I liked the pacing in Tomb Raider (2013), kept moving forward but gave you the ability to go back and explore if you so wanted. The forward pacing was break neck and pretty fantastic.

This. Probably the best example of good pacing in recent history. It played out like a well paced movie, basically. Quite remarkable. I wish more games could manage to do that.

Another good one is Batman: Arkham Asylum. Even though I like AC better, AA pacing was flawless.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I liked the pacing in Tomb Raider (2013), kept moving forward but gave you the ability to go back and explore if you so wanted. The forward pacing was break neck and pretty fantastic.

This. Probably the best example of good pacing in recent history.

Another good one is Batman: Arkham Asylum. Even though I like AC better, AA pacing was flawless.

Unless you're serious about getting 100%. Then the game doubles its length with tons of uneventful backtracking. One thing I liked about City was that the gangs of enemies would regenerate and there was always a bit of life in the setting. Asylum becomes one of those "beautiful voids" halfway through.

RE4 rocks my world, but it's all downhill for me once you escape the village.

I'll agree that the village is the best part. It's the most intimate and primal, and it also helps that it channels The Texas Chainsaw Massacre to a wonderful degree.

But I just love how the castle continuously finds new ways to up the stakes. Just when you thought you couldn't run into even more overwhelming odds, you suddenly find yourself trapped in a boiler room with two el Gigantes.

The problem with the castle - and its inhabitants, and everything else that ensues - is that it reminds me too much of the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

I feel campiness taking over. Except for the regenerator part. Everything else kind of kills the mood.

Oh come, that's what so freaking great about it.

I mean, the moment you meet Mendez the cheese just starts to ooze, with Leon performing a roadhouse kick for no reason. Then you meet Sadler in the church, and he gives an elaborate speech about how the president's daughter is integral to his plans (which is already a really, really, really stupid plan). And what's the next thing he does..? Call in two monks to shoot flaming arrows at her.

The whole thing is just so silly, and the game never tries to act like it's anything but. Making it the first Resident Evil game where I actually enjoyed the story.

Yeah, Leon could've juts shot Mendez.
I like how Leon essentially became Jack Bauer in Medieval Terrorist Spain.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah, Leon could've juts shot Mendez.
I like how Leon essentially became Jack Bauer in Medieval Terrorist Spain.

And Mendez could've broken Leon's neck... twice. Once at the cottage, and a second time in the Boss fight shack. No more Leon, Sadler wins. Salazar could've sicked both his demon stooges on Leon that very first time.

It's just so much fun seeing these overly theatrical and incompetent villains doing their thing. And then at the very end, after Leon has completely decimated Sadler's armed forces, Sadler's still all "You have not won, muhahahahaha".

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Yeah, Leon could've juts shot Mendez.
I like how Leon essentially became Jack Bauer in Medieval Terrorist Spain.

And Mendez could've broken Leon's neck... twice. Once at the cottage, and a second time in the Boss fight shack. No more Leon, Sadler wins. Salazar could've sicked both his demon stooges on Leon that very first time.

It's just so much fun seeing these overly theatrical and incompetent villains doing their thing. And then at the very end, after Leon has completely decimated Sadler's armed forces, Sadler's still all "You have not won, muhahahahaha".

Actually that just makes me hate the man all the more. Every goddamn time, in a childish kind of way, but also justified, I think. I'm always like "Dude, I've only annihilated life itself in an entire VILLAGE, an entire CASTLE and a entire fucking ISLAND. Literally EVERYTHING and EVERYONE you've tossed up against me is now dead. Clearly I'm winning".

 

[Casual Shinji]

Actually that just makes me hate the man all the more. Every goddamn time, in a childish kind of way, but also justified, I think. I'm always like "Dude, I've only annihilated life itself in an entire VILLAGE, an entire CASTLE and a entire fucking ISLAND. Literally EVERYTHING and EVERYONE you've tossed up against me is now dead. Clearly I'm winning".

That only fits in with those delicious schoolyard smack talks over the walkie talkie.

Leon: The king of comebacks