Democrats already retreating from public option before DNC even starts

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Buyetyen

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Calling them unreasonable is a denial of their humanity, they’re simply operating under a different set of presumptions than you. It absolutely is worthless to try to argue them into changing, but that’s true about basically everything. I also don’t believe in “brute forcing” most any problem, this one included.
I fail to see how recognizing human capacity for irrational behavior denies someone's humanity. We are equally capable of both great feats of logic and of nonsense.

If anything, I would think it more human to acknowledge just how easily our free will and judgment can be overriden.

And if someone actually believes that Donald Trump's buffoonish persona is an act in order to infiltrate and destroy a Democrat-led global cult of Satanic pedophile cannibals, then it is safe to say that this person is not using sound logic and reason to reach these conclusions and may have a hard time differentiating fantasy from reality. That's the kind of person I would prefer to get professional help.
 

Revnak

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I fail to see how recognizing human capacity for irrational behavior denies someone's humanity. We are equally capable of both great feats of logic and of nonsense.

If anything, I would think it more human to acknowledge just how easily our free will and judgment can be overriden.
Unreasonable has a different implication to me.
And if someone actually believes that Donald Trump's buffoonish persona is an act in order to infiltrate and destroy a Democrat-led global cult of Satanic pedophile cannibals, then it is safe to say that this person is not using sound logic and reason to reach these conclusions and may have a hard time differentiating fantasy from reality. That's the kind of person I would prefer to get professional help.
We don’t have that much psychiatric help.
 

Buyetyen

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Unreasonable has a different implication to me.
That's fine. I hope this clears things up a little.

We don’t have that much psychiatric help.
As someone who benefits from psychiatric medicine, you're not wrong in that regard. Just another expression of stupid healthcare system. Something else we'll have to work on fixing. At least with Dems you can apply some pressure and get concessions. More than I can say for the Republicans.
 

Revnak

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That's fine. I hope this clears things up a little.



As someone who benefits from psychiatric medicine, you're not wrong in that regard. Just another expression of stupid healthcare system. Something else we'll have to work on fixing. At least with Dems you can apply some pressure and get concessions. More than I can say for the Republicans.
There isn’t time for that. These guys are gonna start killing people in November.
 

Eacaraxe

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Secondly, yeah it’s more complicated and difficult than just sitting down and talking to someone, but giving up on what is probably a couple million people (and rapidly growing) at this point means accepting that once Trump loses at something we just accept that there will be a few hundred McVeighs, which is a horrifying thought. Limiting the growth and educating yourself is important. Keeping tabs on your family members who have started believing this stuff rather than letting them get more and more lonely until they blow up a federal building is important. Ugh, treating this like something that having Dems in charge will fix when in fact that is the exact trigger for them starting to kill people is extremely foolish.
Not touching the ableist shit for sure, but my in-person direct action has been to talking to "alt right" people and de-radicalizing them. Yeah there are intractable people out there who are going to believe whatever they believe, but most of the time people take entirely reasonable concerns and grievances to extremes because nobody's there to check them. Like it or not, the state of our government is such that conspiracies about what it does and does not do behind closed doors is rampant.

Least of all when a sizable number of the "conspiracy theories" have actually turned out to be true. I mean hell, MKUltra did exist, Operation Northwoods was proposed (but rejected), Operation Mockingbird happened, the US military has simulated bio-weapons attacks by exposing US citizens to pathogens without their knowledge or informed consent, chemtrails were real, there was a UFO crash at Roswell which the government covered up, and surprise of surprises the US government was engaging in mass automated electronic surveillance of its own citizens. Frankly, in my opinion more people should be conspiracy theorists...as a function of rational inquiry and impartially-directed skepticism.

That's not a "Trump" thing, that's not an "Obama" thing, that's not a "Bush" or "Clinton" thing, it's not even a "Reagan" or "Nixon" thing. This extends through all living memory, all the way back to the Bonus army, Smedley Butler, the Business plot, hell even the Lindbergh baby. Opacity in government breeds speculation, speculation breeds suspicion, and suspicion breeds conspiracy theories, especially in a political culture like the US's where we're all raised and socialized to be suspicious of government. Realistically the way to resolve a lot of these issues is to dig to the root cause of people's grievances and suspicions, hear them out and find out what's really up, then provide a sensible pathway forward to voice that grievance without sprinting off into la-la-land.
 

Revnak

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Not touching the ableist shit for sure, but my in-person direct action has been to talking to "alt right" people and de-radicalizing them. Yeah there are intractable people out there who are going to believe whatever they believe, but most of the time people take entirely reasonable concerns and grievances to extremes because nobody's there to check them. Like it or not, the state of our government is such that conspiracies about what it does and does not do behind closed doors is rampant.

Least of all when a sizable number of the "conspiracy theories" have actually turned out to be true. I mean hell, MKUltra did exist, Operation Northwoods was proposed (but rejected), Operation Mockingbird happened, the US military has simulated bio-weapons attacks by exposing US citizens to pathogens without their knowledge or informed consent, chemtrails were real, there was a UFO crash at Roswell which the government covered up, and surprise of surprises the US government was engaging in mass automated electronic surveillance of its own citizens. Frankly, in my opinion more people should be conspiracy theorists...as a function of rational inquiry and impartially-directed skepticism.

That's not a "Trump" thing, that's not an "Obama" thing, that's not a "Bush" or "Clinton" thing, it's not even a "Reagan" or "Nixon" thing. This extends through all living memory, all the way back to the Bonus army, Smedley Butler, the Business plot, hell even the Lindbergh baby. Opacity in government breeds speculation, speculation breeds suspicion, and suspicion breeds conspiracy theories, especially in a political culture like the US's where we're all raised and socialized to be suspicious of government. Realistically the way to resolve a lot of these issues is to dig to the root cause of people's grievances and suspicions, hear them out and find out what's really up, then provide a sensible pathway forward to voice that grievance without sprinting off into la-la-land.
Personally not a fan of conspiratorial thinking since it pushes one towards abstraction and speculation. Better to recognize the conspiracies of the past as evidence for why one should doubt the good intentions of our masters.
 
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Revnak

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And what do you want us to do about that exactly?
Given I said much of the bare minimum already, I’ll add talking to people you know to make sure they understand it’s basically a cult, pressuring media to cover it in a more legitimate manner than alternating between “it’s a joke” and “it’s Russia,” spread the word that it’s probably just Jim Watkins, a racist nerd, rather than any actual intelligence agency, get informed on it by following people like Fredrick Brennan and Travis View, and above all else love the people close to you so that they don’t get caught up in this and turn into McVeighs, as stochastic terror tends to be carried out by the lonely.
 

fOx

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How can you know stuff if you didn't learn it from Youtube???

Youtubers are the height of intellectual discourse in modern society. I know that the debate between Destiny and Jon Tron is considered one of the all time greats, and shook the very foundations of the philosophical world. I really liked the part where jon tron brought up white genocide before dressing like a clown and making fart noises over footage of final fantasy 13.

You can't trust the news. You can't trust politicians. But thankfully, you can still trust the youtube skeptic community.

1598049325237.png
 

Revnak

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Youtubers are the height of intellectual discourse in modern society. I know that the debate between Destiny and Jon Tron is considered one of the all time greats, and shook the very foundations of the philosophical world. I really liked the part where jon tron brought up white genocide before dressing like a clown and making fart noises over footage of final fantasy 13.

You can't trust the news. You can't trust politicians. But thankfully, you can still trust the youtube skeptic community.

View attachment 592
Don’t all three of them hate one another now?
 

Buyetyen

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as stochastic terror tends to be carried out by the lonely.
All the more inconvenient that we're living in an era of radical alienation.

Unfortunately, all of our problems are reaching emergency level because we kept kicking the can down the road. So we really don't have time for anything, but have to try anyway.
 

fOx

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Don’t all three of them hate one another now?
I mean, doesn't everyone hate all skeptics? Armored Skeptic and Shoe on Head are married, and they probably hate each other.

Probably because armored skeptic blames religion for giving all of his money to a cult, and later spending all of his families savings on toys.
 

Revnak

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I mean, doesn't everyone hate all skeptics? Armored Skeptic and Shoe on Head are married, and they probably hate each other.

Probably because armored skeptic blames religion for giving all of his money to a cult, and later spending all of his families savings on toys.
Oh, I forgot that they were married.
 

Agema

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You might want to check this out.
But just imagine how much cheaper healthcare could be if you just had to shove a jade egg up an orifice.

I fail to see how recognizing human capacity for irrational behavior denies someone's humanity.
I know what you mean about irrationality. Every year my employer finds some way to screw my department and cause everyone a hugely stressful year, and still I hope next year might be better.
 

fOx

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Oh, I forgot that they were married.
For the moment. In the meantime, shoe on head is literally getting cucked every night by her man child husband, while carl benjamin tries to recover from single handedly destroying the entire brexit party.