Demon's Souls... Why did it get good reviews?

[McNinja]

So today I got Demon's Souls, because I can't just sit around and wait til march for Dragon Age 2. I waited quite literally all day to play it, and I was quite happy to finally have a supposedly decent game. I was wrong.
[rant on]
The tutorial explains almost nothing. I wasn't even aware I had a stamina bar until about 30 minutes into the game, and I didn't realize that it took stamina to swing a gorram sword or roll on the ground. It's also short as hell, or I missed something. I played the tutorial stuff, went through some fog, fought a guy, went through more fog, then got one shotted by some fat dude with a big axe and four or so eyes.

Then I went to the Nexus, or as I call it, contrived piece of ass. Why? Because it is barely explained. As is most of the game, but I'll get to that later. I thought "fine, I might have half health while enemies still do normal damage, I got this." I did not have this. I didn't die until I got to the upper level of the Boletarian Castle, and I got stabbed by some guy with a long spear, who stabbed me while I was rolling. I figured it would be no problem, but then I started dying more. And more. I hadn't even gotten past the first gorram level, and the game was pissing me off. It's not that the enemies are hard (the basic enemies are easy to kill, provided you don't run out of stamina, God HELP you if you run out of Stamina), and there were others who threw fire at me, but that didn't bother me much.

Then I realized that literally everything I did to prevent myself from dying took stamina, and I had an epiphany: your character in Demon's Souls is a f**king pussy. There's no question about it. Remind me why rolling two feet takes stamina? I can roll two gorram feet and get up just fine. I can swing a sword more than four damn times just freaking fine. In real life. You know what, if this character is the average person in Boletaria, the country deserves to die.

To elaborate on the Stamina bar: it's not a bad gameplay mechanic. I hate it, but it isn't bad. It's just contrived. It has no purpose other than to make the game harder. It doesn't make the game more fun, it makes it harder. You know what other game was really hard, but really fun? Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox, and it didn't have some BS gameplay mechanic that literally ruled your life. It was hard because it was fast-paced, and even the basic enemies didn't give you the time of day.

On the subject of dying: also contrived. See, I got the God of War collection for Christmas last year (Christmas of '09) and I never beat God of War I ( I had beaten it before, when it was originally released). Why? Because I hate having to do things over and over again ad nauseum. It's just stupid. I want to enjoy a game, not spend five and a half hours learning how to play it. But I digress. Back to dying: The first time I died (after being severly PWNT by the big fat axe man with glowy eyes) I was transported to the Nexus. Now, keep in mind I have no idea what in the hell is going on, I'm just rolling with it. Then the game tells me I need some Demon souls... wait, what have I been killing? Those tings with the swords trying to kill me aren't demons? I then realized that they probably meant the big boss demons. Great. So I took off into contrived shyte number two, the Archstone that lead me to the Boletarian castle place. I died the first time, sort of stupidly, but it was my fault for not moving fast enough. So I tried it again, and I realized I had no Souls. Then I found my bloodstain (the only reason to ever go through the same place twice) and retrieved them. Oh wait, no I didn't because I died before I could reach it. So now I had even less then I did before, with no way of getting them back. Then I died again, and had to start the level all over again, and I began to get angry at the game. I realized I sucked. Hard. But why?

Also, there's no story whatsoever besides "bad things are happening, make them stop." This game fails as both an RPG and an Adventure game.

The whole game is just disheartening. The stamina bar is contrived. The dying mechanics, along with the surprise of dying instantly and being forced to go through hoop after hoop to get back into the real world, makes this game grind my gears far more than God of War ever did. Also, the graphics. They're barely better than Dragon Age: Origins. Almost. It's just so... bland. I know there's a fog and demons and whatever, but really? Also, the entire art style shows little inspiration. The menus are bland as hecknuggets, which almost made me not want to buy the game in the first place.

The entire game shows a lack of innovation and imagination. The game is padded out by its contrived gameplay mechanics, which force you to play and replay entire levels for simply dying, sometimes because you got pushed down a bottomless pit. The The developers of this game From Software haven't progressed past 2000. The menus are basically a dull re-skin of the same menus in Armored Core 2, and that's saying something. The graphics are dull, the music is lifeless, and the character creation screen is adequate at best. The control scheme is ridiculous, using the R1 button to swing, and L1 to block. Why? When literally every single other adventure game has square as the attack button, why change it? It seems like From Software just likes disregarding control schemes that work in favor of things that make no sense (see Armored Core 2 control scheme. Now that had some eff'd up controls). The targeting system is decent, but the little backstep the character can do is practically useless.

Maybe if the game allowed me to actually enjoy it, I would like it.

[rant off]

It's not that I like being catered to, or that I just like easy games. I play games for enjoyment, and I do like a good challenge. But not like this, not when the challenge of the game is based around a gameplay mechanic. A game should be hard because the AI is smart, because the enemies require tactics and strategy to defeat. A game should be hard because the gameplay itself is hard, not because the player is being inhibited by the game's mechanics.

So what did you all think of Demon's Souls?

 

[Jekken6]

1.Read player notes, dodging, timing are key as well.

2.the gameplay is fine, menus are serviceable and the story, well, most of it is told by the environments, enemies or your imagination, I'll give you that one.

3.it's not the game's fault you suck

4. kind of agree on the graphics, they could be better, doesn't mean they're bad.

5. the music is great. get to boss fights.

Demons Souls is the type of game that will kick your ass, but when you kick it's ass, it's so satisfying. A while ago, i couldn't beat the Tower Knight and when I did, I felt so good, I did a victory lap. Same with Fool's Idol. Now I'm up to the boss on 3-2 and I'm wishing that one was easier.

The game involves a bit of grinding at some points, but here's a tip for that: play online in other people's worlds. You can get quite a few souls and if you die in their world, you keep the souls and go back to where you were when you got summoned.

 

[ShoryukenDude]

Difficulty alone does not make a bad game. It takes a lack of effort to make a bad game, and I don't think Atlus has the ability to slack off on a game.

I haven't played Demon's Souls, but anyone I talk to will say the exact same think thing Jekken said.

 

[Daedalus1942]

It honestly sounds to me like you need to get better at the game.
I'm the same, I still can't get past that tower night boss and he kicks my arse over and over, but I still love the game. It's fun, it's very challenging, but you do need to grind quite a bit.
-Tabs<3-

 

[Plurralbles]

I just got it. I don't like that I'm not good at the game at all and am losing huge piles of souls and gaining nothing but i"m getting further and further into the game as I go so I'm happy. It's a process.

You brought up God of War. I beat GOWI but didn't get through GOWII, but now i have GOWIII and I love it so far. It's far less punishing than Demon's Souls but really, I kind of like it.

Someone brought up Music in DS and I have to agree, It's awesome.

I'm in a very love/hate relationship with it.

EDIT: really it reminds me of how much trouble I had with Devil May Cry.

 

[Something Amyss]

A lot of the reviews I read came down to "it's good because it's punishingly hard."

Which was just what I need to talk me out of it.

 

[Mr.Pandah]

It is a game that doesn't hold your hand. Trial and error on most monsters is pretty much going to happen. Unless you can pick up really quickly on tactics of the opposing monsters, you're going to get your ass handed to you a few times before you step in line to how you should play the game.

The game is very good, but in a different way. You don't appreciate how the game allows the player to approach it and thats fine, the game is certainly not for everyone. It is a very different playstyle.

 

[KILGAZOR]

Haven't played it, but any game that punishes you that much for dying should be used in place of firewood.

 

[Chaos Inverse]

This review says it all:

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/acz2t/let_me_tell_you_about_demons_souls/

Edit: I liked it. This is a punishing game but sort of addicting once you get the swing of it. Hopefully the next one will have better multiplayer though.

 

[The Blue Mongoose]

Demons' Souls isn't hard. It's punishing. Honestly, once you learn how to kill things, it's easy. It's just if you make a mistake you get butt-raped.

I am pissed off by the losing souls thing, but it's to teach you to be cautious. I lost something like 11,000 souls once. Wanna know why? Because I was too cocky to return to the nexus.

It's just practice.

 

[viranimus]

I have to disagree with most of the OP.

However, I will start agreeing. The graphics could have used some improvement, but all in all, for a studio like From software, not being a triple A level developer, I can forgive it.

Also, I concede that the story line is rather lacking, at least at first glance. Once you interact with some of the NPCs you get the bulk of the story. The story however, is not a major player in the game.

Beyond that, I sincerely have to disagree. Ill start with Stamina. You say you could do two rolls and get up fine. I think even at the early part of the game thats not unrealistic to do either. You have to consider your gears weight plays into how hard or how easy something is. Sure in a t-shirt and shorts you might be able to do two rolls and be fine, but pack on a set of full platemail and tell me how winded you are.

Secondly, Yes, the game can kick your ass at any given time. That is by design, and I wouldnt change that for all the world. You might not see that fights do take technique and skill yet, just wait till you come up against the red eye knight in 1-1 for the first time and realize that you can take him down just as easy at soul level 1 as you can soul level 20.. simply because you cant just blindly rush into combat, you need to use things like the environment to your advantage, your various skills such as blocking, and real life skills such as pattern recognition and timing.

You are correct in that the game does not hold your hand. Ill be honest.. it took like 3 hours for me to figure out how to target, and honestly I never noticed the stamina bar for I would dare say the first half of the game. But thats what things like the manual are for. I know in this day and age thats typically forgone, but that is not the games fault. Same is true of the "tutorial" I dont even think of that section as a tutorial at all, outside of teaching you the absolute barest minimum. What that tutorial teaches you is the most important lesson however. This is not a game where you just blindly rush in, this is a game that will kick your ass repeatedly.

But thats really the point. This game allows for so much sense of accomplishment. Most of the major encounters are hard and require strategy, technique, and yes, trial and error to get right. I would much rather see a game designed in that fashion, as opposed to 100 fable clones.

Honestly I have to think your experience came about as a matter of perception. Almost like when you go to the fridge in the middle of the night, reach in thinking your grabbing a drink of milk and end up with a mouth full of OJ. The game is one of the most well crafted and balanced RPG experiences in quite a while. Sure it has some flaws, but the difficulty and the gameplay mechanics are their strong suits, not their weaknesses. If you approach it with patience, you might change your perspective on it. Sorry you didnt enjoy it personally, but thats basically the point of demon souls. So much so its set up as one of the messages you can leave in the game

"If you press on, you can proceed"

I am pissed off by the losing souls thing, but it's to teach you to be cautious. I lost something like 11,000 souls once. Wanna know why? Because I was too cocky to return to the nexus.

It's just practice.

Yeah, try loosing over 100,000 souls (which wouldnt even account for 1 level) all because you accidentally rolled off of a narrow set of stairs.

Final Edit: What do I think of it? Personally I see it as RPG of the decade hands down. I know others wont agree with that, But this is just my opinion on it. Its difficulty is overhyped because it really isnt difficult. It just takes patience and skill. It has arguably the best overall combat system and leveling system I have seen in an RPG in ages and part of what makes it great, is its simplicity. Its music is downright phenomenal as it is haunting as hell. I still hear the nexus music in my head at times. Honestly I cannot recall another RPG that actually made me feel like I was controlling a knight, instead of just clicking menus and buttons the way other*cougragonagcoughcoughhackhack RPGs do. I personally feel in its difficulty and its simplicity and the sense of accomplishment it can convey to keep you coming back for more, the bar for which RPGs really need to start striving to again. Just my take on it.

 

[KalosCast]

It's hard..ish, for a little while, but it's in a cheap fake-difficulty kind of way. Get stomped and insta-gibbed until you know what things do and the specific dance of moves you need and then it's all muscle memory after that. Which is a level bad of game design I though we bred out of people in the early SNES era.

It's just an abstract version of Simon that forces you to retry the same combination if you didn't get far enough.

 

[katsabas]

First timer on Demon's? Nothing to say except keep trying and read the manual.

 

[demoman_chaos]

This isn't Halo. Charging in like a dummy doesn't work.

It honestly sounds to me like you need to get better at the game.
I'm the same, I still can't get past that tower night boss and he kicks my arse over and over, but I still love the game. It's fun, it's very challenging, but you do need to grind quite a bit.
-Tabs<3-

You use melee or ranged? Either way, start off by killing those crossbowmen on the walls. If ranged, stay on the walls, dodge his magic blast and shoot his face. Melee I have 1 tip that will remain through the entire game...
DOOOOOOOOOOODGE!!!!
Learn to and prioritize dodging. Tis better to avoid getting smashed by a massive shield than it is to get a hit in.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

It is a game that doesn't hold your hand. Trial and error on most monsters is pretty much going to happen. Unless you can pick up really quickly on tactics of the opposing monsters, you're going to get your ass handed to you a few times before you step in line to how you should play the game.

The game is very good, but in a different way. You don't appreciate how the game allows the player to approach it and thats fine, the game is certainly not for everyone. It is a very different playstyle.

this. its not a game anyone can just walk into, it takes practice, but its one hell of a game, i will say that. (unfortunately i didn't have the time to dedicate to the one game..so i beat i think about 3 bosses? then i traded a friend for uncharted 2)

*the game is good, just a bit of a difficulty curve learning it

*look up some guides online, i garuntee it will help you tons

*dont look at it like a bioware game (assuming since you talked about DA2), its a great game in itself

*try to look at the game different, not direct text and upfront story, but the environment and story notes.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

OP - I totally agree with you. Demon Souls is not fun.

It's like Monster Hunter Tri - a time sink that might get fun after 40 hours of practice and grinding, but who wants to play for that long to "get good" at something if one isn't having fun until then?

Hard =/= bad. Not fun = bad. The OP clearly likes hard games - but Demon Souls isn't hard. It's frustrating to the point of dullness.

Edit: Oh, Kalos Cast said it better than me. Read his post above.

 

[snowman6251]

Demon's Souls was not only my Game of the Year for last year, but it ranks second on my "Best Games Ever Made" list, losing out to Ocarina of Time, primarily due to nostalgia. Now I'll admit, Demon's Souls is not a game that I expect to be universally loved, but I think it's freaking fantastic. I've beaten the game around 10 times. Some first playthroughs, some New Game + runs.

Anyway I almost didn't buy this game at first, because I was scared of it. I heard how hard it was, I heard about the lack of saves, I heard about your health bar in soul form, and I thought to myself "fuck that". After it won Game of the Year on gamespot however I said to myself "Fuck it lets try this shit out". I fell in love instantly.

I knew from the get go what I was getting into. I knew everything in the game was going to murder the shit out of me if I fucked up in the slightest. Having no idea what the levels were like, where the traps were, where the ambushers were waiting, etc, I tiptoed my way through the game with my shield up. One step forward, two steps back, check safety, proceed if safe. It's a game that brought me an amazing adrenaline rush. I knew the consequences of death and I knew I desperately wanted to stay alive. I progressed slowly and surely and emerged victorious.

At the end of my first playthrough I had only died a handfull of times, mostly due to me doing something stupid like falling off a cliff. This game is all about knowledge. Now that I know the game by heart I can run through it two handing my weapon being ballsy as all hell. That first time though, you're in the dark, and therefore caution is key. I wish I could see these people who complain about dying actually play the game because I suspect they're probably "doing it wrong". A fried of mine just played through the game for the first time and died a whopping two times (not including suicides for farming the reaper). The game is really not that hard if you go about it the right way.

I think Demon's Souls is much more fair than God of War or Ninja Gaiden. I consider all three to be difficult games but Demon's Souls is the only one that I never felt was cheap. If you die in Demon's Souls, it is 100% totally YOUR fault. The game never cheats. The game is never unfair. It will punish you for your mistakes but it's never unfair. Ninja Gaiden and God of War will spam enemies at you, have them take out absurdly large chunks of your health, pad the enemy health bars with lots of fluff, etc.

Anyway I disagree with all your complaints. I like attack and block on the shoulders so I can keep my thumbs on the camera. The game isn't about a story the same way Dragon Age is, and yet it has a beauty to it that I experienced just by traversing the levels. Some of the monsters have an almost gentle air about them and some of the fights evoked a real sense of despair in me. Maiden Astrea for example, not that you'd know what that means as you're stuck on the first level.

Honestly, the first level is the hardest. You can farm souls after the first level so don't really worry about losing them early on. Just take it slow and learn from your mistakes. If you died, you made a mistake, and you need to adapt. It's really not that hard to achieve success.

 

[IDTheftVictim]

Might Contain Spoilers (I don't think it does but you can't be too carefull):

If you need help learning how to play there is an area in the Nexus where the floor is covered in hints.

You're character gets tired when he rolls because unlike other heroes you're character isn't the offspring of a cosmic deity and a tank. Rather he is a human being who, no matter how hard he trains or how many souls he consumes, will always have to deal with things mortals deal with, such as fatigue. I also highly doubt you could swing the Dragon Bone Smasher ONCE.

The music wasn't something that I would hum throughout the day, but it was great for the atmosphere, and as far as the looks of the game go; have you found the swamp filled with aborted plague babies with scythes for arms? Because that requires inspiration, or maybe other people think about that daily and my imagination is just dead.

You actually pay attention to the menu? The game doesn't pause because you forgot a bow needs arrows to work so you have slightly more pressing issues to deal with.

If you are content to blow Demon's Souls off that is fine as people have different tastes and yada yada yada. However I strongly suggest you at least get past the first boss. You will (probably) get better and the feeling you get as you realize this is one few games match. You will also be able to access the multiplayer which is also very unique to this game (at least amongst my collection of FPS's).

While I haven't played since October I enjoyed the game enough to play through it twice and the length of this response hopefully shows how highly I think of Demon's Souls.