Deporter-in-Chief and the Wannabe

[Trunkage]

Just because timing can be elegant sometimes, I have this for your perusal. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/02/05/us-deported-salvadorans-abused-killed

Apparently part of Mexico (based Trump ramblings), this study looks at El Salvador and the cost of the US deporting people in human lives. Starting from 2013, 138 deaths and 70 more tortures/rapes can be directly linked to deportees. HRW didn't count those that they couldn't definitely count. So... that's not going to be an accurate account, highly likely a lowballing of the correct number.

Please note this covers Obama tenure as well. This is not just a Trump bashing. So about that timing thing...

It literally won't make much of a difference if Trump is ousted if an Obamaesque get in place. It's time to highlight the effects of deportation and that it's literally killing people. And to highlight how those that acquitted Trump today effectively sign death warrant for a bunch more people.

 

[bluegate]

Just because timing can be elegant sometimes, I have this for your perusal. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/02/05/us-deported-salvadorans-abused-killed

Apparently part of Mexico (based Trump ramblings), this study looks at El Salvador and the cost of the US deporting people in human lives. Starting from 2013, 138 deaths and 70 more tortures/rapes can be directly linked to deportees. HRW didn't count those that they couldn't definitely count. So... that's not going to be an accurate account, highly likely a lowballing of the correct number.

Please note this covers Obama tenure as well. This is not just a Trump bashing. So about that timing thing...

It literally won't make much of a difference if Trump is ousted if an Obamaesque get in place. It's time to highlight the effects of deportation and that it's literally killing people. And to highlight how those that acquitted Trump today effectively sign death warrant for a bunch more people.

But, they are illegal Mexicans, not people.

Note that this is not my point of view.

 

[Agema]

But, they are illegal Mexicans, not people.

Note that this is not my point of view.

The core notion of "America first" is nothing if not that non-Americans are second-class human beings.

 

[tstorm823]

There are apparently 1.3 million Salvadoran-born immigrants in the US. The population of El Salvador is like 6.4 million. That's like 1/6th of the population of the entire country that has moved here. And are, presumably, law-abiding people for the most part. Do you think El Salvador might be less dangerous if it had 1.3 million more law-abiding citizens?

 

[Agema]

There are apparently 1.3 million Salvadoran-born immigrants in the US. The population of El Salvador is like 6.4 million. That's like 1/6th of the population of the entire country that has moved here. And are, presumably, law-abiding people for the most part. Do you think El Salvador might be less dangerous if it had 1.3 million more law-abiding citizens?

Probably not, because people are in large part products of their environments. Take a child at birth and bring him up in a crime-ridden slum, fair chance he'll end up a gangster. Bring the same child up in a cosy middle-class suburb instead, fair chance he'll end up a software engineer.

 

[Trunkage]

There are apparently 1.3 million Salvadoran-born immigrants in the US. The population of El Salvador is like 6.4 million. That's like 1/6th of the population of the entire country that has moved here. And are, presumably, law-abiding people for the most part. Do you think El Salvador might be less dangerous if it had 1.3 million more law-abiding citizens?

That would be wonderful if that could happen. I'm also going to point back to my orignal post. A couple hundred have already been murdered, possibly more. If we sent back a million, how many would be murdered? How many would need to be murdered to keep others in line?

Also, it would be great if the US didnt send in entities to 'control' a country. MS13 was a US back gang deliberately sent in to destable El Salvador. Achievement Unlocked. Your reward is walking up through Mexico. Guido is being sent in to destable Venezuela. And Murado is a terrible. That doesn't give the US free reign to pick a non-elected person of their choice. He's not the true leader, just as much it's previous leader. Let's see if this terrible idea backfires too in 20 years, sending more refugees

Edit: Just to cut this off before it starts. Pelosi almost jumped out of her seat to congratulate Guido, before even Pence. So the Dems are all on board with interfering with nations leaders. (Which is also contradictory to both Trump and Obama saying their getting out of countries)

 

[SupahEwok]

There are apparently 1.3 million Salvadoran-born immigrants in the US. The population of El Salvador is like 6.4 million. That's like 1/6th of the population of the entire country that has moved here. And are, presumably, law-abiding people for the most part. Do you think El Salvador might be less dangerous if it had 1.3 million more law-abiding citizens?

That would be wonderful if that could happen. I'm also going to point back to my orignal post. A couple hundred have already been murdered, possibly more. If we sent back a million, how many would be murdered? How many would need to be murdered to keep others in line?

That's not any kind of reasonable comparison, for the simple fact that no country can handle a sudden 17% population increase without great suffering.

The better question to ask is, why has 1/6 of the population of a country abandoned it? A mass hysteria? Simultaneous drug-infused spirit journeys? Or, perhaps, life in their home country is bad enough to prompt mass migrations out of it?

I'm not really up on El Salvador these days, but some folks act like people coming up from the other Americas are coming to the US on a whim to steal the success of others. Those people should ask themselves what it would take to get themselves to move to another country with alien customs, culture, and language, abandoning lands, communities, and in many cases family, for good. And think twice before callously suggesting folks who've had to make that decision just need to be tossed back as if life in the US is comparable to life in countries riddled with civil war, government collapse, and rampaging drug cartels.

 

[Agema]

Also, it would be great if the US didnt send in entities to 'control' a country. MS13 was a US back gang deliberately sent in to destable El Salvador. Achievement Unlocked. Your reward is walking up through Mexico. Guido is being sent in to destable Venezuela. And Murado is a terrible. That doesn't give the US free reign to pick a non-elected person of their choice. He's not the true leader, just as much it's previous leader. Let's see if this terrible idea backfires too in 20 years, sending more refugees

True, but it's a consistent behaviour.

By analogy, we could consider how low SES communities are treated. They could improve social services and opportunities in a troubled community to reduce crime and poverty. But often in practice they just massively repress troubled communities with law enforcement instead. At a moral level, these contrasting policies are portrayed as the former being stealing from good folk to give money to bad folk, and the latter judiciously using good folk's money to protect them from the bad folk. The fact that the former is more societally productive and healthy than the latter is a far distant second.

 

[tstorm823]

I'm not really up on El Salvador these days, but some folks act like people coming up from the other Americas are coming to the US on a whim to steal the success of others. Those people should ask themselves what it would take to get themselves to move to another country with alien customs, culture, and language, abandoning lands, communities, and in many cases family, for good. And think twice before callously suggesting folks who've had to make that decision just need to be tossed back as if life in the US is comparable to life in countries riddled with civil war, government collapse, and rampaging drug cartels.

Consider the parallel to white flight and urban decay. You might not fault any individual for personally moving themselves and their family away from violence to a better home, but if everyone is doing that at once, it will cause negative externalities for others to deal with. And it definitely should not be the policy of any government to encourage people to make those decisions.