Depression isn't all in your heads... is it?

[Wintermute_]

Ah, the 2am forum post. 3 cheers for healthy sleep habits.

My close friend has for years defended his idea that depression doesn't exist, that it isn't a clinical issue, and that anyone who takes pills for depression is in fact, as he so intellectually puts it, a "puss who can't deal with reality", so those who take anti-depressants don't have a malady, but are just altering their reality with drugs because they can't deal with negatives.

He ultimately views it as a "mindset" of sorts, rather then an illness to be treated, either with meds or even counseling to a degree.

Try as I might, I can't convey to him how the illness (is it an illness? I can't think of the word that describes it) that is depression is in fact a chemical imbalance in your brain (as I understand it) that makes your body produce more of the negative emotion chemical (forget the name) and et cetera.

Although I personally think he's wrong, I can't convince him and do wonder if he has some shreds of truth tacked to his argument.

Is depression a real illness, or is it real all in your heads, to an extent?

(would be cool if you could gimme something to shut him down in our next debate once and for all, btw. just puttin it out there...)

EDIT: Feel I should point out that, ironically, my buddy has been sent to a doctor several times for depression (at his parents behest) and recently one attempted to diagnose him with depression and prescribe him medication. He flat out denied the doctors claim and refused meds. He real is stubborn about the pills, very against the "altering your brain" based on the morality and level of control you therefore have over yourself and your person. And another friend of ours supports him just as vehemently in his views.

Though he'll probably never admit it, he has some very odd mental issues, has since I met him, but refuses to succumb to falling back on them as excuses or reasons for any deficiencies he has. I slightly admire him for that, and am infuriated by his stubbornness at the same time.

 

[Julianking93]

Well it's an illness in your head.
Depression comes in severity.
Sometimes you can block it out. Sometimes you can't.
Either way, your friend is wrong.
Depression does exist and it's a horrible thing to go through.
Look at any clinical studies on depression and you'll see it's a real sickness that effects the mind. It isn't something you can just wish away.
You can do your best to fight through it but it's still there.
Unfortunately, that depression can eat away at you and there's nothing one can really do about it aside from an amazing amount of willpower.
Though, I'm very against pills like that, depression is a real problem.
I guess the only way to prove him wrong is if he goes through it himself.

 

[Alexnader]

Although there is a tendency these days to make everything into a clinical illness chronic depression does exist and it can be very serious.

Chronic depression could be seen as a "mindset" but then you need to ask what causes a mindset, can we just ask someone to change the way they see the world? Are there physical reasons for said mindset? Somehow I doubt telling a suicidal person to "suck it up" would help much and your friend sounds pretty stupid (especially since he uses the word puss).

Problem is there seems to be a large variety of competing theories regarding what causes clinical or chronic depression, ranging from the psychological (their upbringing etc) to the physical (alterations in genes, imbalances in hormones or whatever) so it may be hard to shut him down with a quick sentence or two. One way to do it I guess would be to ask him if he really thought anyone would choose to take their own life because of a "negative mindset".

 

[Kahunaburger]

Any mental condition is in your head, because your brain is in your head. Depression is a mental condition, and it is not "just being sad."

Here's [http://depression.about.com/cs/diagnosis/a/mdd.htm] some of the diagnostic criteria from the DSM-IV - you'll notice that there are quite a few symptoms that have nothing to do with "not being able to deal with reality." This is because depression involves, as you said, a chemical imbalance in your brain.

 

[ElectroJosh]

Clinical depression exists and can be treated with medication (after all its a physical condition) for more information go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_disorder#Depressive_disorders


I have never had that problem but its not the same as teenagers being mopey or people being drama queens. There is a physical reason for it but, because its in you brain, it means your emotions and thoughts are effected.

Your friend might as well say that a broken leg doesn't exist and is in people's minds.

 

[Jack_Uzi]

Depression isn't an ilness, but can certainly have it's effects on the body (sleeping disorder, headaches and feeling the lack of energy (nearly) all of the time) so one can follow from the other. Certainly the way you deal with things and the impact you 'let' it get on you is something to keep in consideration when you are going trough a thing like that. But there is no doubt that it starts in the head. Pills.... I'm not for them. My thought on them are that they only prolongue the problem, not solve it but make it extend to 'go away to hunt you another day'.

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

Depression is a real illness characterised by an imbalance of the chemical serotonin. Anti-depressants are designed to augment the levels of serotonin in your body, therefore raising your mood.

Depression is serious, and something like 1 third of all people wil experience some form of it throughout their life. It is more than likely your friend, or someone close to him, will experience depression.

There's not much that you can say to convince your friend. If they're not willing to take others' word, than what else can you do? But you are right in thinking depression is real.

 

[Kahunaburger]

they only treat symptoms rather than root out the cause.

What if the cause (as it frequently is) is brain chemistry?

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

There is a clear and extremely important difference between being depressed and having clinically observable depression. The former is a mood that we all experience from time to time, usually the result of rejection, failure or boredom, while the latter is a condition that causes the sufferer to exist almost constantly in a state of disphoria and anguish with no obvious causes or outside influences.

Depressed people need a hug. People with depression need urgent help.

Pretending depression is a simple state of mind that can be overcome with a can of harden-up is a slap in the face to hundreds of years of development in psychology, medicine and mental health. Not to mention a spit to the face of every sufferer the world over who lives in torment.

Disgusting to even suggest.

 

[ElectroJosh]

One last thing, drugs are not the way as they only treat symptoms rather than root out the cause.

Could you clarify what you mean by this please? Are you talking about all drugs (in which case that statement is BS) or are you talking about depression medication (in which case it is still BS, but for a different reason as some feel the medication is only slightly better than a placebo)?

 

[Wintermute_]

Depression isn't an ilness, but can certainly have it's effects on the body (sleeping disorder, headaches and feeling the lack of energy (nearly) all of the time) so one can follow from the other. Certainly the way you deal with things and the impact you 'let' it get on you is something to keep in consideration when you are going trough a thing like that. But there is no doubt that it starts in the head. Pills.... I'm not for them. My thought on them are that they only prolongue the problem, not solve it but make it extend to 'go away to hunt you another day'.

Liking the discussion thus far, love opposing opinions.... This is basically the claim my bud and several other people we know will make to me when the topic arises.

What is wrong with taking pills to stop a negative affect on your mood and lifestyle? they only correct the imbalance, making you your normal self rather then the depressed you? If its not an illness, what is it? care to explain?

 

[Biosophilogical]

they only treat symptoms rather than root out the cause.

What if the cause (as it frequently is) is brain chemistry?

But that does raise a question. If your thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc are neural and chemical interactions and systems, then wouldn't the appropriate method of curing it be to alter the thoughts and outlook (and thereby the chemical and neural interactions) in such a way that promotes a chemical balance within the brain? I mean, if you can figure out how to do that, then you could work to cure depression psychologically, rather than medically. I mean sure, drugs are good for the short term until you figure out an approriate method, but what drugs are actually doing is acting to alter the individual on a fundamental level.
Almost like mild brain-washing.

OT: As far as I know (which is very little), clinical depression is when the brain creates a chemical balance prone to depression. So it isn't something that you can just get over on a whim, it is a predisposition that exists independent of external influence, so to 'get over it', as your friend so bluntly puts it, you'd need to alter the basic chemical balance within your brain, and not being a neuroscientist, I wouldn't know exactly by which process that could occur.

 

[Frybird]

What is wrong with taking pills to stop a negative affect on your mood and lifestyle? they only correct the imbalance, making you your normal self rather then the depressed you? If its not an illness, what is it? care to explain?

I guess the problem is that they don't, really.

It's more likely that the effects of the pills are more like creating a "third self" and that in some cases, they may still amplify certain other moods and emotions. And there are probably enough other side effects in just about every medication.

Also, if you had headaches every day, and you would take an aspirin and they would go away, would it really be the logical solution to just take medication every day rather than to find out why you get headaches every day?

I think that is the thing: There is nothing really wrong about taking medication, but it is no solution to become dependent on them, especially if a different kind of treatment may get you rid of your problem forever.

 

[Astoria]

It is an illness but I can see why your friend says it's not. It is, in my opinion, way over diagnosed these days, especially in teenagers. There is a difference between having depression and being in a bad mental state as a bad mental state can usually be changed by a few changed circumstances (for the better of course) whereas not much helps when you have depression.

 

[Jack_Uzi]

Depression isn't an ilness, but can certainly have it's effects on the body (sleeping disorder, headaches and feeling the lack of energy (nearly) all of the time) so one can follow from the other. Certainly the way you deal with things and the impact you 'let' it get on you is something to keep in consideration when you are going trough a thing like that. But there is no doubt that it starts in the head. Pills.... I'm not for them. My thought on them are that they only prolongue the problem, not solve it but make it extend to 'go away to hunt you another day'.

Liking the discussion thus far, love opposing opinions.... This is basically the claim my bud and several other people we know will make to me when the topic arises.

What is wrong with taking pills to stop a negative affect on your mood and lifestyle? they only correct the imbalance, making you your normal self rather then the depressed you? If its not an illness, what is it? care to explain?

I am not really an expert on medication, I can only tell you something about my experience with them to 'correct' the 'chemical imbalance' I (had to) deal with: True that they help to a certain extend in calming you down or let the depression subside. But as some people here said, it only takes away the problems on the surface. You just cover it up. I began to feel less and less to the point where I felt like a drone. Thinking that depression sucks... well.. at least I felt SOMETHING. I couldn't describe or retrace my own being anymore and thus couldn't tell where my feelings came from (so much for treating the problem). While everybody was telling me I was doing 'great!' or 'better!' with those chemicals, I sunk away in myself and nearly didn't feel human anymore. Getting out of depressions takes time and people to help and talk to.. not meds as far as I see.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Some say Depression is all in your head.

To which I respond;

Where could there possibly be a worse place for it to be!?​

 

[ArchBlade]

Your friend misconstrues the meaning of the word.

Anyone can say they're depressed. Hell, I've got my sad moments from time to time, but we're not talking about that. The depression for which you need medication is a chemical imbalance in your brain, it's not just melancholy or sadness. Medication is often necessary to deal with this because it's actually a condition. The power of mind over matter is an impressive thing, but when there's something wrong with your brain, there's something wrong with your brain.

 

[WolfThomas]

Did your friend study 5-7 years of medicine, a year of internships, another possible year of residency, then 4-6 years of pschiatry?

Of course Depression is in people's heads, that the whole focus of Psychiatry, diseases of the mind (not brain, that's neurology). It's all phenomenology, stuff we don't fully understand, but that we know the symptoms and we know how to improve and prevent these things through medication and therapy.

Pschiatrists use to deal with Parkinsons and late stage Syphilis, but once we gained a better understanding of their mechanisms and aetiology they were turfed back to medicine and neurology.

 

[Vern5]

Even assuming that depression is just a psychological disorder doesn't make it any less capable of ruining people. Whether or not depression is "real" isn't the actual issue. If you believe you have some kind of psychological disorder, then that would be your psychological condition and only therapy could really get you out of it.

It's sort of the "Eye of the Beholder" logic.

Either way, your friend sounds like a douche. My heart goes out to people who are struggling with depression. Its sad. They're just locked into their own heads, unwilling to act and genuinely unhappy.