Depression isn't all in your heads... is it?

[General BrEeZy]

when im down (almost all day every day), i try to remember that im alive, i have more health than sickness, i dont live in the capital wasteland, and i have a roof over my head with food and clothes under it as well. and that kinda helps with the fact that almost no one i talk to acknowledges me back and i have almost no friends or people to even spend time with.

its not always all up to you, but ya gotta make it work. and life will get better.

here, Cracked.com even said so!
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-life-actually-does-get-better/

i suggest everyone read this. its got some real good stuff, but still lives up to your Cracked expectations!

 

[sibrenfetter]

Depression is when your parts of your brain stop functioning correctly (at least clinical depression is). More specifically, it's when certain neuron receptors stop taking in the chemicals they are supposed to as much as they are supposed to. The chemical in question is serotonin. That is the chemical that makes you feel 'happy.' When the receptors in your brain fail to intake that chemical, that leads to feelings of depression. When the serotonin crowds the area due to not being able to go into the receptor it's supposed to be going into, it's brought back in by a re-uptake area and stored for later use.

Anti-depressants block the re-uptake area, meaning that serotonin continues to build up. Since it builds up so much, the receptor is forced to accept more of it. This causes depression to get at least somewhat better. The downside is that, while the lows aren't as low, the highs also aren't as high, as the serotonin isn't being stored for those big bursts of happiness (like, say, winning the lottery).

This can be caused by a number of issues ranging from emotional problems that have to deal more with the person's psyche, to genetic or other chemical influences that causes the receptor to work less effectively. The main way to improve the receptor's uptake without pills, if I remember correctly from my Psych class, is to go through therapy. Releasing stress and dealing with problems can cause the receptor to being working better.

So, in conclusion, it can be caused by the person (though not, as your friend says, by how they see the world, but instead by stress and personal factors) as well as other various sources like genetics and chemical imbalances.

Your friend needs to read this excellent answer by Kapol. It summarizes very nicely how it works. If still in doubt you can look up the definition and specifications in the DSM-5. All of this has a very strong research basis and is agreed upon in the scientific community.

 

[Winthrop]

Its a chemical inbalance in some cases, in some cases its mental. By the way the term is disorder, though I doubt anyone would care if you said illness.

 

[Winterfel]

So I skimmed through some of the reply's here and noticed that very few people actually pointed out that your friend is quite clearly in utter denial of his own depression. Making himself belive that something like depression is just an exuse makes it really easy for him to redirect his feelings to something(himself) rather than just dealing with it.

This is all speculation ofcourse but it's what I used todo before I got through meds & therapy and everything you posted sounded oh-so-familiar.

 

[Esotera]

Depression isn't an ilness, but can certainly have it's effects on the body (sleeping disorder, headaches and feeling the lack of energy (nearly) all of the time) so one can follow from the other. Certainly the way you deal with things and the impact you 'let' it get on you is something to keep in consideration when you are going trough a thing like that. But there is no doubt that it starts in the head. Pills.... I'm not for them. My thought on them are that they only prolongue the problem, not solve it but make it extend to 'go away to hunt you another day'.

Liking the discussion thus far, love opposing opinions.... This is basically the claim my bud and several other people we know will make to me when the topic arises.

What is wrong with taking pills to stop a negative affect on your mood and lifestyle? they only correct the imbalance, making you your normal self rather then the depressed you? If its not an illness, what is it? care to explain?

Because the long-term effects of those pills are largely unknown, and they can raise the risk of suicide. Added to that a lot of depression is simply caused by our modern environment; regular exercise and sticking to a set schedule is probably about as effective as medication for most people. And these carry less risks.

And don't get me started on neuroleptics...

 

[Ruzinus]

Boo on your friend for judging on people who use anti-depressants. Those people have every right to alter their brains. Does he think it's just some sort of universal happy pill, a general mood upper? If so, then you've got him. Anti-Depressants actually have a negative effect on people who aren't depressed. If you do have depression then SSRIs can make that go away... if you don't then SSRIs can make you suicidal.

On the other point you brought up... well hurray to your friend not using them. Just as anyone who chooses to use them has every right to alter their brain, your friend has every right to NOT alter his brain. In both cases people should be able to act on their choice.

 

[katsumoto03]

Depression is all in your head? Well, duh. That's where your brain is...

Seriously though. I assume your friend doesn't believe in evolution either.

EVOLUTION IS FOR PUSSIES WHO CAN'T DEAL WITH GOD.

Am I getting warm here?

 

[Kahunaburger]

they only treat symptoms rather than root out the cause.

What if the cause (as it frequently is) is brain chemistry?

The problem is rarely just brain chemistry. Neurochemistry is part of the biological approach to psychopathology. It does not take into account a patient's current environment, upbringing, social status or any other non-biological factor.

Also, drugs only have a temporary effect on the brain (you smoke cannabis, but you aren't permanently stoned for instance) so drugs cannot cure depression even when the problem is neurochemistry. Also, drugs that affect the brain directly are often more addictive and can lead to even more problems for the patient.

Sorry for the rambling and incoherence.

Everything relating to the human mind is biological, because humans are biological creatures. But nitpicks aside, there's a huge difference between saying (as most well-informed people do) that mental illness can be caused by a brain chemistry issue and saying that mental illness is always caused by brain chemistry issue. Pretty much everyone but scientologists believes the former, and basically no one believes the latter.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Any mental condition is in your head, because your brain is in your head. Depression is a mental condition, and it is not "just being sad."

Here's [http://depression.about.com/cs/diagnosis/a/mdd.htm] some of the diagnostic criteria from the DSM-IV - you'll notice that there are quite a few symptoms that have nothing to do with "not being able to deal with reality." This is because depression involves, as you said, a chemical imbalance in your brain.

Silly question, how does one regain the chemical balance.


On Topic: Your friend can kinda be right in the fact that some people do have a negative mindset that makes them more likely to become depressed.

Well, a lot of people think you can accurately describe how depression works with the diathesis-stress model because environmental factors can have an influence.

Re: chemical balance, that's where antidepressants come in, and possibly some experimental stuff involving TMS. They're not quite as effective as one might hope, but that's because a lot of the technology is still in its infancy.

 

[Erana]

Chemicals have a huuuuuuge effect on your brain. Personally, I do believe that most cases of depression are symptoms of other issues, but the point remains that it is a real thing.

Which is why I don't like just throwing pills at these sort of things. Someone could have thought my migraines, sleepiness, and abnormal amount of angst was just "Depression" and medicated me, but instead I got all kinds of blood tests done and found that I have a brain tumor that makes it like I'm PMSing all the damn time.
Because I know this, I can actually use medication to treat the real problem, rather than just masking the symptoms.
And I also know to monitor the thing with yearly MRIs to make sure it doesn't, say, grow big enough to make me blind or worse.
[small] And fuck me, because in two years, it went from undetectable on an MRI to half the size of what doctors typically consider operable.[/small]

But yeah, with anyone who seems depressed, I always tell them to get lots of bloodwork done. Even a deficiency in a vitamin can cause depression- why take powerful meds without looking to see if there's a magic pill out there that could fix everything?

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Sadly i can't put it any more politely than this: your friend is a dumb-fuck. All the positive thinking in the world won't help you if your brain chemistry is screwing with you. I speak from experience. I've fought depression for over 10 years, with and without medication. Sometimes it's manageable without meds, but sometimes it's not.

 

[Flutterguy]

Grow up with an abusive alcoholic father, and trust me the Concerta's are going to help.

 

[Taldeer]

I swear as I read your post the first thing that went through my mind was "his friend is depressed". Takes one to know one I guess. I would argue that not being able to deal with reality is in itself the definition of an illness, since it seems that most people can indeed "deal with it". Why is it some people, according to his theory, can't? Does he honestly believe it's a choice? Does he honestly believe this "happiness is a choice" bullshit?! But I won't argue, because I know, when you're depressed you cling to what semblance of meaning you can find in your perception of reality with uncanny ferociousness. "Depression doesn't exist, it's all in the head" sounds very much like one of those mantras without which you end up in a place where every single object around you has value only according to its potential to aid you in suicide. So I say don't try to convince him otherwise. Let him believe what he needs to believe.

 

[tigermilk]

snip so the OP sees my post

When there is not sufficient communication (release of seretonin) between the basal ganglia and the orbital cortex it can manifest itself in depression, anxiety etc. The 'surface' cause can be addressed by a medical model of treatment. The underlying cause is not addressed by medication hence the role of therapy in its many forms (debatably).

In my opinion creating a mind/body dichotomy is a flawed logic. The rise of rationalism since the enlightenment has been complicit in these discourses that have then been appropriated by right wing groups situating prejudice in the belief the 'other' is unable to think/act rationally is a reason their rights should be curtalied/denied.

With all due respect to your friend I disagree with him strongly. It sounds like he is fortunate enough to never have been put through a significant trauma (or he is projecting his own reaction to trauma/holding views as a form of defence mechanism). Much though I disagree with him I hope he never needs to use anti-depressants to cope with life.

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Yes, it can be an illness due to the failure to accept serotonin in the body. On the other hand though, I heard an extremely interesting theory on depression (read it in an article by someone who suffered from depression) that after a traumatic experience the brain essentially learns how to recreate feeling of immense sadness and just triggers this as a sort of overreaction to negative stimuli in everyday situations. In other words, it's not that there's anything wrong with your genetics or chemical imbalances, but rather your brain overreacting to stimuli. This isn't scientific fact, by the way, I just thought it was an interesting idea of how it can work in some cases.

 

[HardkorSB]

Ah, the 2am forum post. 3 cheers for healthy sleep habits.

My close friend has for years defended his idea that depression doesn't exist, that it isn't a clinical issue, and that anyone who takes pills for depression is in fact, as he so intellectually puts it, a "puss who can't deal with reality", so those who take anti-depressants don't have a malady, but are just altering their reality with drugs because they can't deal with negatives.

He ultimately views it as a "mindset" of sorts, rather then an illness to be treated, either with meds or even counseling to a degree.

Try as I might, I can't convey to him how the illness (is it an illness? I can't think of the word that describes it) that is depression is in fact a chemical imbalance in your brain (as I understand it) that makes your body produce more of the negative emotion chemical (forget the name) and et cetera.

Although I personally think he's wrong, I can't convince him and do wonder if he has some shreds of truth tacked to his argument.

Is depression a real illness, or is it real all in your heads, to an extent?

(would be cool if you could gimme something to shut him down in our next debate once and for all, btw. just puttin it out there...)

EDIT: Feel I should point out that, ironically, my buddy has been sent to a doctor several times for depression (at his parents behest) and recently one attempted to diagnose him with depression and prescribe him medication. He flat out denied the doctors claim and refused meds. He real is stubborn about the pills, very against the "altering your brain" based on the morality and level of control you therefore have over yourself and your person. And another friend of ours supports him just as vehemently in his views.

Though he'll probably never admit it, he has some very odd mental issues, has since I met him, but refuses to succumb to falling back on them as excuses or reasons for any deficiencies he has. I slightly admire him for that, and am infuriated by his stubbornness at the same time.

Well, it's more like it's in your body.
I find it fascinating that we are aware that what you eat, drink, breathe in, how long you sleep, the temperature, humidity etc. can affect the way your body works but when it comes down to the brain, we dismiss it.
THE BRAIN IS A PART OF YOUR BODY!!!
The things I've mentioned above can just as well affect your brain. Your brain can start to malfunction if you're not eating properly of if it's too hot/cold. A malfunction inside the brain can cause weird thoughts or emotional states, such as low self esteem.
It's not just imaginary, it's an imbalance of chemicals in your brain.
Tell that to your friend, see what he has to say about that.

Oh, you've already done that?
Well then, fuck him.

p.s. And even if it's just "not being able to cope with reality". Reality sometimes is more than you can handle. Sometimes life just sucks and there's not much you can do about it. That's a perfectly good reason to feel depressed, in my opinion.

 

[lacktheknack]

That's like saying "Tourette's Syndrome is only for twats who don't want to stop swearing".

Considering how I have Tourette's Syndrome and don't swear at all, I can safely call those people delusional.