Destiny, and Destiny 2

[TheMysteriousGX]

Look, if one game is boring (for you) and the other game isn't, that's one thing.

But they both take twelve-ish hours to complete, are $60, and don't have a monthly fee. I was commenting on the absurdity of "expectations".

Boring isn't the point though. I'm talking quality here. The campaign in Doom is incredibly well made, and yields a level of immersion into the game that allows the player to become unaware of the time invested. Destiny 2 is by no means lacking in content. Even after the story there are strikes, raids, and pvp to get into so you aren't just getting an 8 - 12 hour campaign.

However what you are presented with in Destiny is just garbage story-telling with a few fun moments and great set pieces. So what ends up happening is people play through Destiny and get these moments of hype and excitement, or peaks and valleys, where the story feels very spotty, and then ultimately ends on a cliffhanger only made to bait us into buying the two expansion packs coming for an additional 40 bucks each. It makes the story feel short to people because it isn't finished, and as a result they feel like something is lacking from there 10 hour adventure, because something is...an ending.

Now if Destiny 2 had a real ending with closure of everything that had happened to that point, then I would imagine that people would be far less upset about the story length.

Because Doom didn't end with a massive chunk of sequel bait or anything, no sir.

You don't like Destiny. That's fine. But it isn't "short" if Doom wasn't.

 

[CritialGaming]

Because Doom didn't end with a massive chunk of sequel bait or anything, no sir.

You don't like Destiny. That's fine. But it isn't "short" if Doom wasn't.

I get what you are trying to say, but the games don't translate well to comparisons together. Can you really imagine Doom taking 30 hours to get through? Or Call of Duty or Halo? Most action-cinematic FPS simply can't hold up to longer campaigns.

The problem with Destiny 2 is that it is an MMO! MMO's are supposed to be long investments, grinds, with loads of sub activities to keep the player going. Yet what it did was pace its story in just a way that they clearly have more to tell you, except they don't. And want you to buy expansion passes to fill out the rest.

Like I said, Destiny isn't a short game, by no means. But it's story is short for what it is supposed to be. This is an FPS-MMO-RPG, not a standard FPS game. People expect more here, they just do, and frankly even if you didn't have more story to tell for the game, it should have been padded with more things to do to fill out the playtime to max level. Sub-missions, more low level strikes, mandatory group quests, leveling gating even. Anything to space what campaign there was out enough to make the players feel like they got a full experience.

While extreme players in WoW can level a character from 1-110 (max) in a single day, 99.9% of the players cannot. And that's what people expect from an MMO. Destiny's leveling content should take a reasonable player about a week to reach max level, not one or two sessions.

At least there is plenty of other stuff to do once you are finished with the campaign, it's just sad to see people so quickly through with it.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Because Doom didn't end with a massive chunk of sequel bait or anything, no sir.

You don't like Destiny. That's fine. But it isn't "short" if Doom wasn't.

I get what you are trying to say, but the games don't translate well to comparisons together. Can you really imagine Doom taking 30 hours to get through? Or Call of Duty or Halo? Most action-cinematic FPS simply can't hold up to longer campaigns.

The problem with Destiny 2 is that it is an MMO! MMO's are supposed to be long investments, grinds, with loads of sub activities to keep the player going. Yet what it did was pace its story in just a way that they clearly have more to tell you, except they don't. And want you to buy expansion passes to fill out the rest.

Like I said, Destiny isn't a short game, by no means. But it's story is short for what it is supposed to be. This is an FPS-MMO-RPG, not a standard FPS game. People expect more here, they just do, and frankly even if you didn't have more story to tell for the game, it should have been padded with more things to do to fill out the playtime to max level. Sub-missions, more low level strikes, mandatory group quests, leveling gating even. Anything to space what campaign there was out enough to make the players feel like they got a full experience.

While extreme players in WoW can level a character from 1-110 (max) in a single day, 99.9% of the players cannot. And that's what people expect from an MMO. Destiny's leveling content should take a reasonable player about a week to reach max level, not one or two sessions.

At least there is plenty of other stuff to do once you are finished with the campaign, it's just sad to see people so quickly through with it.

Except destiny isn't a mmo. At best is a multiplayer online Frist person shooter. Kind of like diablo 2 but as an FPS. So comparing it to WoW ( or any mmo really) isnt fair. No one expects playing for weeks to hit the cap. And the only people doing it in a few days are the people who are glossing through the story and extras.

The real fun of the game is the loot and teaming up. Joining a clan, playing with people, socializing, comparing loot. It's ton of fun if you aren't just rushing through everything.

 

[CritialGaming]

Except destiny isn't a mmo.

Joining a clan, playing with people, socializing, comparing loot. It's ton of fun if you aren't just rushing through everything.

Sound like an MMO to me.

Destiny is about as close to an MMO as a FPS looter shooter can possibly be. Raids, Dungeons, PVP, Grinding galore, it's cutting it pretty close.

If you don't wanna classify it as an mmo, fine, but if you take that away then it is a Borderlands clone that's worse in absolutely every single way....except maybe graphically.

Either way my original point stands. Nobody would be saying shit about the length of the story if it was good and left you satisfied by the end. Destiny doesn't do any of that for a number of reasons, so people are bitching because they don't know how to properly criticize.

 

[DaCosta]

If you don't wanna classify it as an mmo, fine, but if you take that away then it is a Borderlands clone that's worse in absolutely every single way....except maybe graphically.

Based on the beta, the shooting feels better in Destiny 2, and it won't make me scream "Won't you, for the love of God. shut up!", every 5min.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Except destiny isn't a mmo.

Joining a clan, playing with people, socializing, comparing loot. It's ton of fun if you aren't just rushing through everything.

Sound like an MMO to me.

Destiny is about as close to an MMO as a FPS looter shooter can possibly be. Raids, Dungeons, PVP, Grinding galore, it's cutting it pretty close.

If you don't wanna classify it as an mmo, fine, but if you take that away then it is a Borderlands clone that's worse in absolutely every single way....except maybe graphically.

Either way my original point stands. Nobody would be saying shit about the length of the story if it was good and left you satisfied by the end. Destiny doesn't do any of that for a number of reasons, so people are bitching because they don't know how to properly criticize.

The first M In MMO stands for massive. There is nothing massive about the online. You dont chat with hundreds or even dozens of players.

Dungeons are 3 people. Raids are 6 people. You play as one faction ( guardians). I feel like your preconceived notion of what you think the game is suppose to be is preventing you from enjoying what the game actually is.

Don't get me wrong. You can dislike the game all you want. But a game ( any game ) doesn't stand a chance when you go in expecting something completely different than what is really is. Thats why genres exist.

Destiny is not, nor is suppose to be, an mmo.

Raid, dungeons and pvp are just words but you are associating them to something bigger than what they are.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Really liked Destiny 1; was actually majorly disappointed by Destiny 2.

The campaign is loads better than D1. It falls apart after that. The new skill trees are locked into a choice between two sets of four abilities. The supers are all very samey now, being variations of "go into a super mode and throw fire swords/hammers/shields/electro punches that kill stuff." I never used the shield function of the sentinel shield; I just bashed everything to death as with fist of havoc.

They "fixed" the grimoire by removing it almost entirely. There are only fluff cards for exotics now, none for locations or characters or collectibles. D1 made the nonsene mistake of putting all its worldbuilding into a phone app; D2 just doesn't have it.

There is still no matchmaking for nighfall or raids despite Bungie and many gaming sites making much hay over its addition. The lack of a group finder was D1's hugest shortcoming and one that I can eagerly expected D2 to fix. They did not; instead, they tried to reinvent the fucking wheel with this guided games thing, where one-half of the fire team has to be in the same clan - kinda defeats the purpose of a group finder, which is for folks without a clan - and you need, no shit, a fucking ticket to get in. I have no idea where these tickets come from and the need to have one is an even dumber hurdle than the old WoW attunements. If they only come from cash store loot boxes, then it's dumb AND greedy.

i have actually already stopped playing. Took me about a week to get a gear set I liked; since then I've jumped on once to do the raid with some US friends. Down two bosses, got...some reputation tokens, which I then found that I couldn't hand in until I'd finished the whole raid. So, I got nothing. Some shaders, I think.

Massive missed opportunity. To anyone considering buying it; wait a few months. It'll be cheaper and they'll hopefully have ironed out the crap by then.

 

[Zhukov]

I didn't buy Destiny 1 because I'm not an idiot.

I'm not buying Destiny 2 because I tried the beta and it was garbage.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

I didn't buy Destiny 1 because I'm not an idiot.

I'm not buying Destiny 2 because I tried the beta and it was garbage.

Well I sort of agree. Both of these games are pretty much skinner boxes, devoid of old-school gameplay and more importantly set price point.
It's one of the last decade's generes that are masked as games but all what they try to do is establish routine/habit/addiction (depends of your age and personality type), then exploit it to drive you to give up additional money. I really don't like the way this cancer leaked through from mobiles market and seem to sink in ever deeper into core gaming (looking at Overwatch, SoM 2 etc.).

 

[laggyteabag]

Destiny 1's combat was great, and it looked nice, too. But the story was threadbare, and it felt sluggish on a controller and at 30FPS. The game was fun, but aside from The Taken King, it never really held my attention.

As for Destiny 2, I am excited to get in on my PC. I played the beta, and it felt fantastic at 100+ FPS, with a mouse and keyboard. Honestly, you are doing the game a disservice by playing it on a controller at 30. Its like night and day.

Would I get the final product? For ?50, probably not, but I don't have a choice, because I got the game for free with my 1080TI anyway, so I don't have to worry about that. No loss to me if the game is crap.

 

[sXeth]

I didn't buy Destiny 1 because I'm not an idiot.

I'm not buying Destiny 2 because I tried the beta and it was garbage.

Well I sort of agree. Both of these games are pretty much skinner boxes, devoid of old-school gameplay and more importantly set price point.
It's one of the last decade's generes that are masked as games but all what they try to do is establish routine/habit/addiction (depends of your age and personality type), then exploit it to drive you to give up additional money. I really don't like the way this cancer leaked through from mobiles market and seem to sink in ever deeper into core gaming (looking at Overwatch, SoM 2 etc.).

MMO's been doing the skinner-box (with microtransactions) for ages longer then mobile gaming has existed. TF2 and Diablo 3 were the ones that started pushing it into AAA gaming. GTA V wasn't too far behind Diablo 3 either.

So yeah, blame Valve (2011), Blizzard (2012), and Rockstar (2013) and their fanboys who think they can do no wrong for microtransactions clambering into and being accepted in AAA games. EA also took its first shot then with Dead Space 3, though they actually got resistance from it to the point of sales missing enough for them to axe the series.

 

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

I didn't buy Destiny 1 because I'm not an idiot.

I'm not buying Destiny 2 because I tried the beta and it was garbage.

Well I sort of agree. Both of these games are pretty much skinner boxes, devoid of old-school gameplay and more importantly set price point.
It's one of the last decade's generes that are masked as games but all what they try to do is establish routine/habit/addiction (depends of your age and personality type), then exploit it to drive you to give up additional money. I really don't like the way this cancer leaked through from mobiles market and seem to sink in ever deeper into core gaming (looking at Overwatch, SoM 2 etc.).

MMO's been doing the skinner-box (with microtransactions) for ages longer then mobile gaming has existed. TF2 and Diablo 3 were the ones that started pushing it into AAA gaming. GTA V wasn't too far behind Diablo 3 either.

So yeah, blame Valve (2011), Blizzard (2012), and Rockstar (2013) and their fanboys who think they can do no wrong for microtransactions clambering into and being accepted in AAA games. EA also took its first shot then with Dead Space 3, though they actually got resistance from it to the point of sales missing enough for them to axe the series.

I know and would.
However, that is something, that should have been brought up by gaming journals constantly throughout last 2 decades - I mean advocating for gamer customer rights, viability of products and services (set price point, ban of predatory practices, extending minor protection from gambling etc.) and quality of games and gameplay (unfair season pass, preorder and sudo-dlc practices, false alpha- and beta- access game sales, neglection, or rather extinction, of releasing playable demo versions to open public, unfounded always-online requirement, killing off for years entire generes of games which were't COD grade profitable).

Instead we have a bunch of youtubers doing so, which is pretty much few guys shouting in the literal vacuum of the space and 'game journalists' actively instigating identitarian, cultural witch hunts against gamers. Treating gamers like uncivilized beasts, that need 'white-man' to be tamed. All the while publishers and developers prey on said beasts like friggin trappers in wild west era, trying to viciously skin as many and as fast as possible before locals figure out what is going on and form up to try and run them off.

Beside CDPR, I can't even think of publisher that acts consistently ethically. And what do they get from so called 'press' along reluctant acollade? They get slammed for lack of 'racial diversity' of fictional cast and actual staff. Instead of being ad nauseam used to bash all the other devs and publishers with 'Hey look you can do business without being abusive, devious predator! Take notes you guys!'

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Played the first one and it wasn't anything special and from my group of friends it's a game that only really seems to be liked by the players who aren't really that good at playing games.

 

[Hawki]

Then you take DOOM, where the game was fast paced, and a ton of fun. Filled with cool guns, bad ass demons, and crazy kills. The fun factor of Doom makes that same 8 hours feel a lot more satisfying than a boring 8 hour slog.

I'll agree to disagree there. If anything, I found Doom to be tedious in its mechanics, and wretched in its story. I mean, okay, I get why people dislike the Grimoire, considering it's not even in Destiny proper, but Doom's 'story' is still mostly conveyed with reading text that feels like it's been thrown together as the developers went along.

Sound like an MMO to me.

Destiny is about as close to an MMO as a FPS looter shooter can possibly be. Raids, Dungeons, PVP, Grinding galore, it's cutting it pretty close.

When Destiny came out, Bungie called it a "shared world shooter." At the time I scoffed, but in hindsight, with titles like Anthem, The Division, and Sea of Thieves, I'm beginning to wonder if it might be prudent to consider it a separate genre, or at least a sub-genre. It's probably a natural progression of sorts, considering how online services have steadily become more prominent in games.

MMO's been doing the skinner-box (with microtransactions) for ages longer then mobile gaming has existed. TF2 and Diablo 3 were the ones that started pushing it into AAA gaming. GTA V wasn't too far behind Diablo 3 either.

So yeah, blame Valve (2011), Blizzard (2012), and Rockstar (2013) and their fanboys who think they can do no wrong for microtransactions clambering into and being accepted in AAA games. EA also took its first shot then with Dead Space 3, though they actually got resistance from it to the point of sales missing enough for them to axe the series.

That's an...interesting way of looking at things, considering that microtransactions for Diablo III (assuming you mean the Auction House) were canned pre-RoS, so it's hardly a case of fans being hunky dory with everything. Also, I've never heard anyone say they refused to buy Dead Space 3 because of microstransactions - Dead Space 3 suffered sales-wise because of a shift to action from horror, and that it failed to reach its sale targets (said targets exceeding the games that had come before).

 

[Lufia Erim]

it's a game that only really seems to be liked by the players who aren't really that good at playing games.

How so? Quality of the game aside. The endgame stuff, whether or not you enjoy it, is some of the hardest things i have every had to do. Comunication, teamwork and skill are heavily required to do the raids and the nightfalls. Assuming you don't use an exploit. Hell some people at the moment are spending 12-18 hours at failing to complete the Destiny 2 Leviathan raid because its so difficult.