Destiny- does it exist?
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A fixed plot for the world? No. Some old skits we run, with great attention to recreating each detail? Yes. To take a Pratchettesque approach, some events have 'historical inertia' or to use his term out of context, 'narrative inertia'. Like a snowball, some things approach a certainty of 1 with great predictability, like two countries escalating to a war or playing naked twister will lead to awkwardness. There's no overarching 'plan', but to say our lives aren't guided by natural factors like instinct, habit, human nature and plain physics is a bit stupid. Some things just lead to others, and this can cause chains of events. There's a reason we can predict some things, you know.
It's only inertia, it can be stopped. Sometimes just not easily, or with the power we are provided.
Simple version: sometimes, shit is just bound to happen... and sometimes it doesn't, but you wouldn't bet against the odds. Think of it like a set of road rules, rather than being on a bus.
It's not magic, it's just what happens.
It's only inertia, it can be stopped. Sometimes just not easily, or with the power we are provided.
Simple version: sometimes, shit is just bound to happen... and sometimes it doesn't, but you wouldn't bet against the odds. Think of it like a set of road rules, rather than being on a bus.
It's not magic, it's just what happens.
I have a sidebar gadget, says lotto numbers are 6-24-15-6-51-42-6ThrobbingEgo said:
And I heard you have "7 Days". Know what that's about?
You can't beat destiny, you were destined to marry the other person in the end after receiving the prior information.teisjm said:
The Yu-Gi-Oh! guy's got it right. Just like we read the past in history books or in boring documentaries, our present/future will be the past of the future. Whoa, zengasm. But the term fate/destiny implies there is no choice in the matter. Hitler chose to invade Poland instead of France, Beethoven chose to right the Fifth Symphony, Yahtzee chose to review Velvet Assassin. Fate means that those choices were always going to be made and as such, we decide our own fate...but not really or something.
I prefer parallel universe theory; every decision has a different result, which is in turn dependant on the decisions others make, but when you start to think about all the possibilities it boggles the mind. So no, in short humans, as sapient beings, are the masters of their own lives. No matter what the situation, you always have a choice.
An interesting question pratchett brings up: Is there in any way, right now, the choice that you will kill your mother if she just walks into the room. Is it possible for this universe, as it is now, to split into the two (there would be more variations of course) universes, one in which you live normally and one in which you simply get up and beat your mother to death.Mechanical Cat Fish said:
I say no, it's not one of the possible (one you are capable of, physically, but not possible based on who you are) option avaliable. To his example, "No, there is no universe in which Samuel Vimes as he is now murders Lady Sybil".
We have a damn load of choice, but our expansive hand of options has limits. Given that we're never likely to run into these limits and we would never want to (we have to want to/ need to choose them for them to be options) it's not relevent to the discussion of effective free will.
But 'every option' and 'every option we can possibly choose' is an important distinction.
I do not believe in destiny.
I believe in free will and coincidences. Basically anyone has the ability to create his or her own life - of course certain social or economic restraints based on where and by who you were born will have some effect on your life, but that's not destiny. It's just a byproduct of human society, but it can be overcome.
I believe in free will and coincidences. Basically anyone has the ability to create his or her own life - of course certain social or economic restraints based on where and by who you were born will have some effect on your life, but that's not destiny. It's just a byproduct of human society, but it can be overcome.
Whereas I have to say I love you for quoting Pratchett, I would also say that, yes I've struggled with that question myself, and yes, Satan would drive to work on a steamroller made of chocolate before I'd stab my mother for no reason, but what about the infinite other options which are likely and all the options that stem from that. Just because you wouldn't do one thing it doesn't mean you would do another, and as such the idea that the constant choices we make mean our futures are in no hands but our own remains valid. So still, no, destiny doesn't exist.Ultrajoe said:
But your choices, at every stage, are from a fixed range of options. Meaning that no matter how psychotically indecisive you are you have limited range of outcomes (limited being a relative term, it's a massive range of choices). There is no alternate universe where you die in another galaxy on top of a pile of slain krkk'nt foes after making love to their queen (damnit).Mechanical Cat Fish said:
Some would argue that because we are who we are, there is only *one* choice we can make in every situation. Choice is a very overestimated factor, humans are creatures of habit. Lets say you don't kill your mother. You're likely to go to work to keep your job, and you're likely to do the job laid before you. So that cuts down the range of possibility (still monumental). You're likely to have the same breakfast you always do, or at least buy it from the same store... in the same-ish price range. You're likely to drive, likely to talk to friends and probably unlikely to say 'bugger all this' and just take the day off.
The fact is that because we choose one choice, it means there is no other choice we could have chosen. Your mind doesn't weigh up and assign each option with consideration, every alternate universe of you is still you, and will make the same choice. Even the most agonizing indecision always comes down to one choice, and provided the details are the same you'll always pick the same option.
Rocks don't change direction in midair. Things don't fall up. People react to available information and a billion other factors but the outcome is, in fact, fixed. Add in the logical impossibility of the 'many universes' idea (where does it get the energy from? does the spin of an electron split the universe? What about quantum multi-states? There's more proof and reason behind God) and we come out with humans as sort of animate matter, the graceful predictability of rocks in space.
Luckily, this doesn't stop free will. We can't look into alternate universes or observe the future. Your choices are very much your choices and the fact that you can't make others doesn't change the fact that you made that choice. You aren't locked into a path, because changing path is in fact part of the script your mind writes on automatic. Your choices are predetermined by you (ever known what somebody was going to say before they say it? You can get to know people) and your environment. But they're still yours.
Your choices are your own, but you can only end up in one place. The good bit is that it will be a product of your choices, not a cosmic game of chess. The bad bit is that if we ran your life again from the start, it would probably end up the same. Until we can see the future or the impossible alternate realities, it's a moot point in any case.
Long story short: You have only one choice, but it's only because you wouldn't want to do things differently.
Yea, but destiny is more present than history. neways there is no way to predict what will happen even a second into the future. So.... I guess destiny is really just if you want to believe in it, like God.teisjm said:
feel free to either explain, bring your OWN argument or stfu.traceur_ said:
"Edit" o hi traceur see you around a lot.[/quote]
The "stfu" part really wasn't necessary friend. I simply feel that the non-existence of chance is impossible in the physical realm.[/quote]My deepest apologies that is simply the line, like "blah blah or gtfo" and i simply meant for you to either explai his point or come u with ur own, or ur comment actually woud be utterly pointless and useless.
Assuming all of reality can be explained by the physical sciences (as I believe) then it is a fact that destiny exists. If the entire universe applies to the laws of mathematics it follows that time, as an active principle functioning within the universe, can also be explained in these mathematical terms. This signifies that the past, present and future can be reduced to a singular universal formula that applies to all action.
Therefore, if we were able to produce such a formula and apply it to anything within our universe we would be able to perfectly predict the flow of events that the object in question would take until the end of time, including human beings.
Therefore, if we were able to produce such a formula and apply it to anything within our universe we would be able to perfectly predict the flow of events that the object in question would take until the end of time, including human beings.