Destiny had the right idea. Limiting player interactions

[Lufia Erim]

This is a rant that has absolutely nothing to do with destiny. I used destiny as an example because of the lack of player communication. While it's possible to communicate between players , mainly voice chat, you can't really easily message randomers.
Now when i played destiny i found this go be annoying. However now i think it was a good idea.

Now what this thread is really about is having bad experiences with multiplayer. I play a lot of fighting games, the fighting game community are rude at best, at worst they are colossal dicks.

I just really just think that some games would be better with limited communication or at least give players a way to silence players.

What brought this one was literally getting harassed over while player guilty gear xrd. The way it works is there are lobbies with players and players can chat . But most players use chat to ***** and moan and insult others. The problem is , there is no way to erase chat messages and no way to ban someone from a lobby. So getting kicked out does nothing if a person is determined to annoy the hell out of you.

I'm just kind of frustrated since i love the genre but hate the people who play it. Not all the people mind you, but the bad apple kind of sour the whole thing for me.

Discussion value. Do you think multiplayers games should have an option limit player to prevent harassement? Also do you have any bad multiplayer gaming experiences?

 

[Chemical123]

It is like going to a brothel to maintain your virginity.
If you do not like player interactions do not play online.
Hearthstone requires you to accept a friend invite before you can even get a chat message. There are no lobbies of any kind. People still annoy other people by forcing the full turn time limit.
Smite has an easy way to mute people where you get no messages from them. However, they can just ruin your experience by refusing to participate in team fights or dying on purpose making the enemy team tougher.
And finally, why bother reading lobbies? If it is not harassment, it is spam or memes or ascii penis drawings or w/e. It is like going to youtube comments and expect civil discussion.

 

[The Madman]

Blizzard has been doing this for years now, and it's proven to have it's advantages and disadvantages alike.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Now what this thread is really about is having bad experiences with multiplayer. I play a lot of fighting games, the fighting game community are rude at best, at worst they are colossal dicks.

But most players use chat to ***** and moan and insult others.

Hearthstone requires you to accept a friend invite before you can even get a chat message. There are no lobbies of any kind. People still annoy other people by forcing the full turn time limit.

Smite has an easy way to mute people where you get no messages from them. However, they can just ruin your experience by refusing to participate in team fights or dying on purpose making the enemy team tougher.

And finally, why bother reading lobbies? If it is not harassment, it is spam or memes or ascii penis drawings or w/e. It is like going to youtube comments and expect civil discussion.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how gamers get such bad reputations with sterling communities such as the ones described. Must be the result of a corrupt games media!

Discussion value. Do you think multiplayers games should have an option limit player to prevent harassement? Also do you have any bad multiplayer gaming experiences?

They always try, they are seldom successful. Any game that requires teamwork eventually wants for communication, and any communication will inevitably give way to abuse/harassment, because as Chemical points out expecting otherwise is futile. Most online players are pretty quiet and keep to themselves. A handful are nice. But it only ever really takes one particularly vitriolic asshole to poison someone's experience in an online community, and vitriolic assholes are not exactly rare. If you play online and you haven't tripped across at least one inside of your first 5-10 hours you're an anomaly.

 

[Elijin]

So you want a mute button?

Or the ability to never hear anything strangers say?

Because XBL and PSN offer both of those services, universally across all titles.

 

[Ishigami]

While it's possible to communicate between players , mainly voice chat, you can't really easily message randomers.
Now when i played destiny i found this go be annoying. However now i think it was a good idea.

Destiny basically outsourced all its communications stuff to PSN/XBL this simply means you send those messages and stuff over XBL and PSN. And you can very well still do this especially since you can read the players XBL and PSN tags in the game and search for them.
Nothing changed except you got to go to the XO and PS4 interface before doing so. So the main hook is ?easily?.
You are arguing to make communication a hassle for everyone so you feel fuzzy and warm. Fuck that.
Give people the right tools like a blacklist, vote kick, mute buttons and they be fine.

 

[Bat Vader]

For MMOs I mainly just close the chat log. That way if someone messages me I can just ignore it. For multiplayer games I usually end up just muting everyone that I don't know. What you want though is a mute button which both systems come with.

 

[Mikeybb]

*snippeth*
Most online players are pretty quiet and keep to themselves. A handful are nice. But it only ever really takes one particularly vitriolic asshole to poison someone's experience in an online community, and vitriolic assholes are not exactly rare. If you play online and you haven't tripped across at least one inside of your first 5-10 hours you're an anomaly.

Quoted to offer agreement.

I've played a lot of online games and seen many flavours of asshat and player community.
While the arseholes didn't bother me overly, I can recognize how much it would put some off.
Especially new players.

The thing that I found though was the games that gave players the capacity to self police, via either admin status or votemute/kick options, were the ones that eventually created the player microcommunities that kept me.

That's what it's about really, you see.
Not the community as a whole, but the microcommunity you find that you just fit with like a missing jigsaw piece they didn't know was absent.
Those gamers who have roughly the same expectations of behaviour and just outright enjoying the game and the company for all they have to offer.
Yes, even the assholes can find groups that love smacktalking each other and machinegunning decal artwork of penises around each other's corpses.
It's why I was so fond of the dedicated server, albeit in the games that allowed for good signposting so you knew what kind of environment you were logging in to.

Dedicated player run servers did offer an environment for this kind of thing to thrive but unfortunately they have become less ubiquitous in gaming over time.
Admittedly, an issue that could arise from such things is the perceived and, in some cases, actual insular attitude that can build up on some such servers.
All the same, for nostalgia and the quality of the places I did find to play, I do miss the prevalence of the dedicated player run server.

Maybe what we need nowadays is not just a way of matchmaking by skill, but matchmaking by attitude.
A small set of questions indicating what kind of social experience you are looking for through your game that could funnel you towards similar gamers.
Of course, I'm already imagining ways it could be broken, and ways to counter said breaking, but that's a discussion for elsewhere I think.

All I'm sure of is games developers that seek to create a genuinely excellent multiplayer experience must dedicate a significant amount of effort to ensuring the right players find each other.
That sense of community, micro as it is, creates long lasting fans of a game.

 

[Zhukov]

Nah man, Journey multiplayer communication is where it's at.

Option A - Press square to make pleasant musical chiming sound audible to other player.
Option B - Don't press square to not make pleasant chiming sound audible to other player.

It remains the one and only multiplayer game where I really liked absolutely everyone I met.

 

[Leg End]

Isn't Destiny basically an MMOFPS?
And we're talking about limiting player interaction, in an MMO?

I don't even know what to say about that really.
In general, most games that have a multiplayer component have the tools to block the person or otherwise tell them to fuck off. I don't get the question.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I personally enjoy the trash talk sometimes. Within reason.
A mute button is plenty.
The online interactions might not be to your taste, but that's hardly a reason to remove them, even if you can't understand why we like it.

 

[Pax Romana]

Can we ease up on the use of the word ''harassed'' because it is applied to every single situation where anyone says something people don't like these days and it is hard to take seriously anymore. It refers to a large extended targeted campaign of abuse not someone saying ''you are a c**t'' over chat in some lobby this one time.

I used to play a lot of COD 4 on 360 and I have been verbally abused on that more times than I can count. Personally I found it hilarious and often returned some of my own (making me an awful harasser I suppose).

There was an option on 360 that anybody who was not on your friends list could be auto muted leaving the only possible path for them to communicate via message. If they did this (although I don't see why they would and I cant see this happening frequently) you could simply block them. Problem solved.

If someone is traumatized by one random person who doesn't know them saying mean things then I suggest they stick to single player, stay in a party chat or grow a thicker skin.

Also PSN is policed much better then XBL and if you send an abusive message which is reported you will be penalized.

I personally enjoy the trash talk sometimes. Within reason.
A mute button is plenty.
The online interactions might not be to your taste, but that's hardly a reason to remove them, even if you can't understand why we like it.

You would be amazed at the number of girly voiced American boys who have fucked my mother,honestly. The funniest was when they realised I was Irish and called me Mr. potato head all game

 

[Odbarc]

Lacking communication can be irritating when you need your allies to do something that's clearly being failed and causing frustration for themselves and not being able to indicate to them hints, advice or other guidance.

 

[Silvanus]

Isn't Destiny basically an MMOFPS?
And we're talking about limiting player interaction, in an MMO?

Well, depends on what you consider 'MMO'. Sure, there'll be a lot of people playing online at any one time, but maps are set-up so only a pretty small number (<8?) are present at any one time-- and that's on pretty sizeable maps. You'll routinely not run into anyone at all.

OT: Definitely has benefits, though I'd only restrict interaction in certain modes/places. In GW2, in World Vs. World (where large numbers of players from different servers battle semi-strategically), you can't just speak in map-chat and have it heard by the enemy, and that's a godsend.

 

[Silence]

Well, Blizzards Bnet 2.0 sucked because it had limited chat options. Really, it kind of destroyed the purpose the old Bnet had.

What a game should have is the option to turn off all chat, and the option to mute individual players. Report system is kind of satisfying too. Limiting chat by default on the other hand is bad, very bad.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Can we ease up on the use of the word "harassed" because it is applied to every single situation where anyone says something people don't like these days and it is hard to take seriously anymore. It refers to a large extended targeted campaign of abuse not someone saying "you are a c**t" over chat in some lobby this one time.

harass
verb ha·rass \h&#601;-&#712;ras; &#712;her-&#601;s, &#712;ha-r&#601;s\: to annoy or bother (someone) in a constant or repeated way

Full Definition of HARASS

transitive verb
1 a : exhaust, fatigue
b (1) : to annoy persistently (2) : to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct
2: to worry and impede by repeated raids

What you described is the literal (and most common) definition of harassment.

I mean, it's even in-game parlance for almost any dedicated competitive multiplayer game. The applications of the word are many.

There is a second, legal definition of harassment which is more of the "extended targeted campaign of abuse". Do you genuinely feel people are attempting to conflate one with the other?

 

[cleric of the order]

I play some of the most toxic games stereotyped to man (on the pc) and from what I see you are overreacting.
I see conflict perhaps once every 20 matches and I have only seen sustained (more then 1 sentence) conflict once every 30 and I've yet to see anything really harmful, outside of friends skype groups.
Perhaps that might just be my narrow experience, I don't play competitive but in all fairness in competitive destroying an enemies moral is a viable if not dickish strategy. well placed insults, taunts and stuff could make people play worse and lose their heads. Also more is at stake, you need conversation, don't complain.
On the flip-side I have made many friends in other games through use of voice chat.
Either way I've always taken to the idea that you get the company you deserve and so I've always tried to be friendly (I'm not above smack talk and I can be pushed) but at the very least I wish everyone good luck every round and am willing to converse politely.
Like it or not, these people are going to be there. There are things in their lives that have made them upset, or unable to cope with stress and they take it out on people at the worst and those people are not ones you should get upset about, offense is taken not given.
In other places YOU OP are HUMAN like the rest of us, fucking understand if a couple people are assholes for a game. Some times people just feel like assholes, get over it, you will act like an asshole sometimes too I'm sure and we all know about glasshouses and stones or black pots and kettles.

What you described is the literal (and most common) definition of harassment.

I mean, it's even in-game parlance for almost any dedicated competitive multiplayer game. The applications of the word are many.

There is a second, legal definition of harassment which is more of the "extended targeted campaign of abuse". Do you genuinely feel people are attempting to conflate one with the other?

I think people tend to use it disproportionately often.
Even when I see sustained conflict in game often it is a give and take.
People often have to respond for this to keep going, people ain't interested in yelling at walls you know.
For example recently a guy, who was a bit of a dick decided to taunt me in the way he killed me. Of course I did so as well when I killed him and after that he started throwing out insults. By the end of it I was laughing because I had done infinity better then him and near the end of the game I told him that plainly.
His actions fit the description of harassment, he did try to annoy me persistently, he did technically try to make me feel "unwelcome" for a lack of a better term but I did egg him on, I was no saint myself.
And this to me at least appears to the be normal way these things go, it's a give and take though the active party will attempt to get offense for as long as they have patience for, which in most human beings will likely be very short when playing a video game unless THEY took grave exception to something you did.
Or likewise were being beat by you and took exception to that and at that point why the fuck do you care, the person is obviously emotionally unstable is some way.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I think people tend to use it disproportionately often.

Given how annoying a great number of online communities can be, I would say any usage of it would be fair game.

Even when I see sustained conflict in game often it is a give and take.

Mmm. Yes and no, although it depends on the game. In, say, an MMO, you really do need to make a decision to engage to have an issue with another player. It's very easy to put them on ignore/get distance from them and resume enjoying the game somewhere else. It's not impossible to grief/fuck up someone's evening in an MMO, but it's tricky.

In a MOBA? You rely on those teammates. Communication with them isn't necessary, but it's important. And since they frequently use your performance as the fuel for their bile, simply not playing the way they want you to is sufficient to keep the hate train running all game long. If they can't speak to you, they'll just ping/wheel spam you. Is it emotionally devastating? No. Is it intensely annoying and toxic? Yes. Does it drive people away from the game/genre? All the time.

There are two schools of thought in how to approach this. One is "Everyone needs to grow a thicker skin!". The other is "This small percentage of people need to stop being howling assholes". As I am not prone to being sympathetic or supportive of howling assholes, I subscribe to the latter.

 

[sXeth]

While it's possible to communicate between players , mainly voice chat, you can't really easily message randomers.
Now when i played destiny i found this go be annoying. However now i think it was a good idea.

Destiny basically outsourced all its communications stuff to PSN/XBL this simply means you send those messages and stuff over XBL and PSN. And you can very well still do this especially since you can read the players XBL and PSN tags in the game and search for them.
Nothing changed except you got to go to the XO and PS4 interface before doing so. So the main hook is ?easily?.
You are arguing to make communication a hassle for everyone so you feel fuzzy and warm. Fuck that.
Give people the right tools like a blacklist, vote kick, mute buttons and they be fine.

Though a fun tidbit I've noticed is Destiny doesn't cause people to show up in your "Recently played with" list in the PSN friend screen, even if you're in actual fireteams with people.

I've gotten lots of messages from randoms though, varying from Crucible abuse, to wondering where my gun is from, or 8 million random requests to do Raids/whatevers

 

[cleric of the order]

In a MOBA? You rely on those teammates. Communication with them isn't necessary, but it's important. And since they frequently use your performance as the fuel for their bile, simply not playing the way they want you to is sufficient to keep the hate train running all game long. If they can't speak to you, they'll just ping/wheel spam you. Is it emotionally devastating? No. Is it intensely annoying and toxic? Yes. Does it drive people away from the game/genre? All the time.

That seems very weak willed to me. someone else is influencing you actions by doing that especially as I mentioned before it's not like I haven't put up with that specific shit.
But I don't see it that often.
Perhaps in mobas it's largely focused around the high mmr bracket and the low mmr brackets. and often in semi competitive play.

There are two schools of thought in how to approach this. One is "Everyone needs to grow a thicker skin!". The other is "This small percentage of people need to stop being howling assholes". As I am not prone to being sympathetic or supportive of howling assholes, I subscribe to the latter.

See I take for former for a number of reasons, 1) the implementation of rules that constrain those people can be used to constrain others depending on implication and method. These can be used unjustly if poorly implemented, Granted I will not argue for the a complete lack of regulation I am just always Leary of these things.
2) there will always be a % of people that don't give a shit about the rules, that isn't going to change. you can reduce and punish but you can never fully expunge it. You can reduce it but the more you do so the faster you allow bans to be, the most systems you produce to assist banning, etc.
3) "howling assholes" are people too, I give sympathy to those people to a certain extent. In some cases they might have a disorder, they might be emotional unstable, hell they could just be having a bad day. I know very well I have had bad days, I don't expect everyone to take it out on people on the internet but I find it hard to imagine someone has not done it somewhere to someone in their lives.