Detroit Becoming Human - Why do I like this?

[CritialGaming]

I have never once played a David Cage game in my life before this game. I have seen the mockeries of the games, I've watched portions of Let's Plays of Beyond:Two Souls, but I've personally never found myself interested in playing a game that is basically a movie with QTE's.

However I did play Until Dawn, and rather enjoyed the game.

So when Detroit arrived, I decided to give it a shot.

Yeah....it's pretty good.

I mean I'm already interested in the android theme and sci-fi premise the game presents. After three hours of gameplay, I have found the world building and character building of this game incredibly interesting. The game is still very much in set-up mode, but it is frankly fascinating.

The only problem I have with the game so far is the QTE's have no real sense of consistancy or predictability. During action scenes you have to react very quickly to any number of random actions, from rapidly pressing several buttons, or tilting the controller suddenly in random ways, of pressing a combination of buttons at once. Which is fine in calm scenes, but can but quite crazy when you have no way of knowing what will come at you in a time limited fashion. Especially when button combos happen in action scenes that do not happen in calm gameplay.

Otherwise the characterizations are good, the setting is good, and I have not scene any random goofy shit that Cage seems known for.

It's odd to find myself enjoying a game that isn't really a game. Though I suppose it is better than a walking sim.

 

[CaitSeith]

"Why do I like this?"

Because you have crappy taste? I'm kidding.

I still haven't played it, but I played Heavy Rain (or at least tried until I got bored and frustrated). Some of its concepts were pretty cool (like the virtual office), but I didn't get engaged enough with the story to keep playing. I hope Detroit: BH has a better story though.

I wish more studios tried to do more of this kind of games to at least have a broader variety of themes and original stories.

 

[CritialGaming]

I played the demo and thought it was pretty decent. It seems like there are more ways the story can play out than in past games, and I like reconstructing scenes. The QTE stuff makes me want to wait for it to be a free PS+ game later on though. I?m really tired of all that random simon says bs.

 

[Dalisclock]

I played Indigo Prophecy back in the day and rather liked it, but haven't played any of his newer games. I heard Heavy Rain, while intriguing, runs into some rather big plot holes of it's own devising. Beyond: Two Souls sounded interesting, but Ellen Page thing came across as really creepy. I'm torn if I want to grab Detriot: Become Human, though I'm not terribly enthused to learn the opening chapters include a lot of menial chore busywork.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

There's no accounting for taste

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I'm liking it so far myself. I'm not terribly far in and I'm probably just about at the point where the story will start jumping into high gear so I can't really say much about the overall writing yet. But so far, I haven't really hated or disliked anything that's happened or any characters.

I really never got the hate for David Cage honestly, not that I think he's some great talent either. I've heard criticisms that he lays messages and themes on really thick, but I never really thought that. The whole android/race parallels are no different than X-Men basically. Much like mutants being hated for being different and a threat is as inherent to the subject matter as androids being treated as slaves.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I've heard criticisms that he lays messages and themes on really thick, but I never really thought that. The whole android/race parallels are no different than X-Men basically. Much like mutants being hated for being different and a threat is as inherent to the subject matter as androids being treated as slaves.

Except in this game it makes no sense, since they're androids and not living beings. The androids are basically being treated as black people during the time of slavery in America, or jews in nazi Germany. They're electronic devices, no different than a car or TV set, yet everyone is beligerent toward them like they're alive for the sake of racism analogies. Their placement within the world versus the way the world actually treats them makes zero sense.

OT: It's the best out of the David Cage games, but it's still a David Cage game. The whole android concept is used solely for the racism analogy -- Nothing cool or facinating is done with these characters actually being androids, apart maybe from one sequence. Also, the vulnerability on these things fluctuates wildly, where some can come back from being completely ripped apart while others bite the dust after a bullet wound in the stomach. And apparently they can disintegrate and reintegrate their skin through some sort of magic that's never explained.


Those LED circles in their temples -- the ones that make them recognizable as androids -- they can also just rip out of their heads with no consequences. You'd think that being tampered with would result in some sort of automatic shutdown, so that an android couldn't accidentally pass for human, but no.


And ofcourse there's a really dumb twist for the sake of a twist.


On the positive side, the acting is actually decent-to-good this time, and the facial animations aren't uncanny hell. Thankfully, no creepy rape or shower scenes for the female characters. There's also proper consequences to your actions in this game. And Clancy Brown is in it.

 

[sXeth]

"Game so far" might be a bit of the reason.

Cage's games tend to start off fine (if you're into that illusion of choice barely there gameplay sort of movie thing), they just tend to start going off the rails plotwise and having spurts of poorly polished gameplay ideas crackling in as they go on.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Snip

Can't really disagree with much of that (never played the 1st one or Beyond though). I enjoyed Heavy Rain enough as I purposefully didn't care to analyze it much because the ride was enjoyable. Cage's writing doesn't piss me off as much as most games that are actually regarded as having good writing. Dan Houser's writing literally pisses me off and it's so much more heavy-handed than Cage and Kojima put together. And the plot holes in games like Uncharted 3 and Bioshock (worst assassination plot ever) were worse than Heavy Rain IMO. If you look into Nier (at least the 1st one) a lot of stuff doesn't make sense. And I just couldn't stand Danganronpa. And those are games that get more writing credit than David Cage games; Uncharted 3 won a freaking writing award and that plot and characters are absolute garbage.

I've heard criticisms that he lays messages and themes on really thick, but I never really thought that. The whole android/race parallels are no different than X-Men basically. Much like mutants being hated for being different and a threat is as inherent to the subject matter as androids being treated as slaves.

Except in this game it makes no sense, since they're androids and not living beings. The androids are basically being treated as black people during the time of slavery in America, or jews in nazi Germany. They're electronic devices, no different than a car or TV set, yet everyone is beligerent toward them like they're alive for the sake of racism analogies. Their placement within the world versus the way the world actually treats them makes zero sense.

Sure, maybe he purposefully drew those parallels but they've all made sense so far. People don't treat electronic devices well at all especially when even the most minor of issues presents itself. Androids will be treated just like slaves by humans, I really don't see how that doesn't happen. Even them standing in the back of the bus makes sense practically and logistically, androids don't need to sit and they don't need personal space because they ain't people. Androids will also be taking jobs just like assembly line robots currently do. I'm sure a lot of people won't like interacting with androids when those interactions were previously done with humans, not to mention androids being superior at many things.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Sure, maybe he purposefully drew those parallels but they've all made sense so far. People don't treat electronic devices well at all especially when even the most minor of issues presents itself. Androids will be treated just like slaves by humans, I really don't see how that doesn't happen. Even them standing in the back of the bus makes sense practically and logistically, androids don't need to sit and they don't need personal space because they ain't people. Androids will also be taking jobs just like assembly line robots currently do. I'm sure a lot of people won't like interacting with androids when those interactions were previously done with humans, not to mention androids being superior at many things.

Sure, but we don't treat them with distain or threaten them, since we know electronic devices don't have the ability to feel physical or emotional pain. The androids in this game aren't treated like objects, but as a sub-race of humans, which makes no sense since they're established as nothing but a product to be sold, not some new race of beings that's looking for a place in our society. People weren't out threatening DVD players when they got popular.


There's a scene where an android runs into a group of protestors and they start threatening him that they're gonna kick his ass and calling him a ************, eventhough in their eyes it's just inanimate object. I'd be a much more effective scene if they just pushed it over without adressing the android in a personal manner, actually treating it like an object despite it not being one. That's the overall problem with this game; The androids aren't fighting to establish themselves as more than just inanimate objects, but as more than just a slave race.


I'd make sense if these were mutants or a race of aliens, but for androids it's just dumb.


Also, these androids aren't that superior. There's little if any scenes that show them being faster, stronger, smarter, or more resilient than humans. They get taken out super easy with just a few gunshots, and they're just as smart as any regular person. Again, almost as if them being androids is just used as a racism analogy and nothing else.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Also, an added and forever growing annoyance is; what exactly is the exploration of how the Androids started to gain "humanity" or self-preservation or whatever you want to call it here, beyond "they look and sound like us...of course they got feelings, duh!" It offers nothing but childish black and white morality with less nuance than any Disney Pixar movie. Typecast cartoon human caricatures better at home in 80s action movies than anything else available today.

I mean, the graphics and soundtrack are the best parts, and guess who doesn't have any claim to that? This is like a band who's lead singer is the absolute worst part, stealing cliche lyrics from old pop songs, yet they insist on taking all the credit for everyone else's talent just because they fallen in love with the idea of being a 'rockstar.'

 

[Dalisclock]

Also, an added and forever growing annoyance is; what exactly is the exploration of how the Androids started to gain "humanity" or self-preservation or whatever you want to call it here, beyond "they look and sound like us...of course they got feelings, duh!"

I have to wonder if Cage made this game thinking "How many emotions is Andriods?" and "What if Andriods but also Peoples?"

I'll stop making fun of him when he stops making terribly written games.

 

[Dalisclock]

I really never got the hate for David Cage honestly, not that I think he's some great talent either. I've heard criticisms that he lays messages and themes on really thick, but I never really thought that. The whole android/race parallels are no different than X-Men basically. Much like mutants being hated for being different and a threat is as inherent to the subject matter as androids being treated as slaves.

Cage comes across as someone who thinks his games are a lot deeper and better then they are.

Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit started out intriguing and was fairly decent until the 2/3 mark of the game, wherein an entire in-game month just vanishes with no reference to what happened and from there on out little to nothing makes any sense. Almost like Cages dog ate a big chunk of the script or something.

What I've seen of Beyond: Two Souls involved a lot of Ellen Pages character repeatedly being threatened with assault or rape by seemingly random strangers, coupled with a lot of shots of Ellen Page crying and the fact David Cage apparently stalked her before signing her up gives off an incredibly creepy vibe to me.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

I have to wonder if Cage made this game thinking "How many emotions is Andriods?" and "What if Andriods but also Peoples?"

I'll stop making fun of him when he stops making terribly written games.

Not even joking, here's his response to an interview question on why he came up with the idea of "Androids as good guys" (...I was first looking for a certain quote to do with completely misunderstanding the point behind blade runner, but this popped up first and explains more than the script ever will);

Cage: The starting point was thinking about what will happen when, one day, we have machines that look exactly like human beings, but are still treated like machines, like objects. It will be a very strange relationship. Talking to someone who looks human as if they were just nothing. That was the starting point for me, for the story, because I think you can establish parallels with different things in the real world. That was my real topic.

They quite literally have emotions because they now look like people who also have emotions. *Deeply depressed sigh*

 

[Wrex Brogan]

The androids are kinda goofy and compelling, in that way where you're watching a really shitty B movie, but the lead actors are just giving a really genuine performance so you can't help but like it.

The rest of the game is a solid garbage fire of a mess, with nonsensical world-building, ham-handed morality, dull story and unlikable side characters, but that's kinda standard for a David Cage game.

[sub]but seriously, in what world do you have functioning, sentient androids available for 8 grand, but for some reason everyone mails iPads to each other instead of emails? Can the androids not function as email devices? Do you even live in the same reality as the rest of us, Cage?[/sub]

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Sure, but we don't treat them with distain or threaten them, since we know electronic devices don't have the ability to feel physical or emotional pain. The androids in this game aren't treated like objects, but as a sub-race of humans, which makes no sense since they're established as nothing but a product to be sold, not some new race of beings that's looking for a place in our society. People weren't out threatening DVD players when they got popular.

There's a scene where an android runs into a group of protestors and they start threatening him that they're gonna kick his ass and calling him a ************, eventhough in their eyes it's just inanimate object. I'd be a much more effective scene if they just pushed it over without adressing the android in a personal manner, actually treating it like an object despite it not being one. That's the overall problem with this game; The androids aren't fighting to establish themselves as more than just inanimate objects, but as more than just a slave race.

I'd make sense if these were mutants or a race of aliens, but for androids it's just dumb.

Also, these androids aren't that superior. There's little if any scenes that show them being faster, stronger, smarter, or more resilient than humans. They get taken out super easy with just a few gunshots, and they're just as smart as any regular person. Again, almost as if them being androids is just used as a racism analogy and nothing else.

People do yell at electronic devices when they don't work. That one scene in Office Space where they beat on the printer is great because everyone can relate to at least wanting to do that. It's quite common for someone to yell at a video game, throw the controller, and stuff. People try to fuck with stuff like Siri right now, they'll definitely be fucking with androids trying to give them contradicting commands to see what they do and a bunch of shit like that. People destroy shit when their team wins a championship. People yell at some minimum wager earning store clerk that they know has no power to actually do give them what they want. None of that makes rational sense either but we do it. Something that looks human and has human senses is going to be treated that much worse than any current inanimate object.

Androids have a lot superiority to them just in the nature of how computers work; they aren't going to forget to do anything, they can do the same job over and over again exactly the same, androids are always rational unlike humans, the cop android can do a lot more on-the-spot analysis, etc. Wouldn't lots of employers want basically humans sans human error that are also massively cheaper? You wouldn't even have to give them lunch breaks. I'm not saying humans are hating on androids for being stronger and a physical threat equating to like a full on war or anything, they are fearful of the fact androids are better humans in many ways.

Cage comes across as someone who thinks his games are a lot deeper and better then they are.

Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit started out intriguing and was fairly decent until the 2/3 mark of the game, wherein an entire in-game month just vanishes with no reference to what happened and from there on out little to nothing makes any sense. Almost like Cages dog ate a big chunk of the script or something.

What I've seen of Beyond: Two Souls involved a lot of Ellen Pages character repeatedly being threatened with assault or rape by seemingly random strangers, coupled with a lot of shots of Ellen Page crying and the fact David Cage apparently stalked her before signing her up gives off an incredibly creepy vibe to me.

I don't pay attention to the artist themselves. I couldn't care less if Cage thinks he's video gaming's Shakespeare as long as his actual work doesn't show pretentiousness. I've only played Indigo/Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain and I never felt like the actual work itself was written in a manner that thought it was so much better than it actually is. Indigo/Fahrenheit goes way off the rails towards the end but it didn't do it any pseudo-philosophical manner were it thought it was smart. From what I remember, it was just trying to be too cool for school and failed horribly at that. I can see Kojima, Yoko Taro, or Bioshock being called pretentious but not like Heavy Rain, which really comes off as schlocky Seven/Saw ripoff at worst. I find Dan Houser's writing super pretentious because every line of dialogue in Max Payne 3 had this air of importance to it and it felt like it really thought it was some gritty masterpiece of writing. Even the RDR started with people spouting on about politics in the opening scene during a train ride. Anyway, that's my take on David Cage's writing (not the person), and I hope that all made sense because it's kinda hard to explain stuff like what one perceives as pretentiousness.

 

[Casual Shinji]

People do yell at electronic devices when they don't work. That one scene in Office Space where they beat on the printer is great because everyone can relate to at least wanting to do that. It's quite common for someone to yell at a video game, throw the controller, and stuff. People try to fuck with stuff like Siri right now, they'll definitely be fucking with androids trying to give them contradicting commands to see what they do and a bunch of shit like that. People destroy shit when their team wins a championship. People yell at some minimum wager earning store clerk that they know has no power to actually do give them what they want. None of that makes rational sense either but we do it. Something that looks human and has human senses is going to be treated that much worse than any current inanimate object.

That's venting frustration. That's not the same as being racist toward inanimate objects. If these androids were given autonomy by the government it'd make some sense that people felt threatened by their presence in society and start treating them in a hostile manner. But these are just devices that are owned by the common public, not even just the super rich, no, everyone.

Androids have a lot superiority to them just in the nature of how computers work; they aren't going to forget to do anything, they can do the same job over and over again exactly the same, androids are always rational unlike humans, the cop android can do a lot more on-the-spot analysis, etc. Wouldn't lots of employers want basically humans sans human error that are also massively cheaper? You wouldn't even have to give them lunch breaks. I'm not saying humans are hating on androids for being stronger and a physical threat equating to like a full on war or anything, they are fearful of the fact androids are better humans in many ways.

Except that doesn't come across in the game at all. These androids are android in name only. They don't appear more efficient or rational than human beings. And Conner's scanning ability could easily be replaced by a human cop with a handheld device. If they're able to fit all of that tech in an android's head, they could fit it into something the size of a suitcase.


But then the whole humanoid robot is a pretty antiquated sci-fi concept, seeing as the human form really isn't that efficient.