Thanks for not spoiling an ending for me! Still working on ky first (Pacifist) playthrough, good to hear the FPS mechanics measure up; I was worried my 2nd, anti-life playthrough would feel off a tad!DeadSp8s said:
Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Sophomoric Writing??
- Thread starter Xprimentyl
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Logged in soley to give you a thumbs up for the Buffy reference. Thumbs up!TheAmazingHobo said:
Oh, I suppose the line about the writer being "out-of-touch with the realities they were attempting to depict" was just a figure of speech then.revenge6000 said:
Apologies, english is not my first language.
I see what you are getting at.revenge6000 said:
And I will disagree on the basis of how I feel about using stock characters, phrases and dialogue. Namely that I don´t think its about dumbing down something, and more about communicating ideas that are not overly important to a greater narrative both effectively and clearly.
They wanted to communicate what is basically a bit of world building (there are gangs in Detroid and you, the audience, should think about them roughly as an equivalent of our "gangsta"-archetype) and did it fast and dirty, by using stereotypes.
Anything else would have required massive amounts of work for both the writers (writing genuine slang and characters is hard and takes time. Time being a thing that is hard to come by in game-development) and the audience (ACTUAL slang of an ACTUAL culturally distinct group is also ACTUALLY hard to understand if you don´t belong to said group).
So to summarize, I don´t think its about dumbing stuff down (that is purely incidental), it´s about picking your narrative fights. And if you have to choose, you should always focus on the important stuff. Which a throwaway piece of world-building really isn´t (and in the grand scheme of the game, the gangs really don´t mean ****).
Much appreciated.revenge6000 said:
Props to you for representing the buffy posse... gang... thing....
Sorry, I just remembered, I urgently have to be white somewhere.
@TheAmazingHobo
Perhaps you take me incorrectly, my friend. I differentiate between "believable" and "realistic." Realistic is an attempt to SIMulate reality, believable is an attempt to EMulate reality. The writers attempt to emulate gang culture harkens to an old and elementary archetype of the concept that doesn't resonate with our modern way of thinking thusly does not come accross convincingly and that is my complaint, has nothing to do with white vs. black (there are white gang members depicted poorly as well, FYI.) Feel free to disagree, but not to incorrectly assume my intentions with hostility and self-righteousness.
Perhaps you take me incorrectly, my friend. I differentiate between "believable" and "realistic." Realistic is an attempt to SIMulate reality, believable is an attempt to EMulate reality. The writers attempt to emulate gang culture harkens to an old and elementary archetype of the concept that doesn't resonate with our modern way of thinking thusly does not come accross convincingly and that is my complaint, has nothing to do with white vs. black (there are white gang members depicted poorly as well, FYI.) Feel free to disagree, but not to incorrectly assume my intentions with hostility and self-righteousness.
I don't know if you ever saw the show 'Pimp My Ride', but they basically take an old beaten car and 'pimp' it, putting on a new paint job, fancy rims, those stupid neon lights, etc. But underneath all the metallic paint and the flashy bling is still the same rusty piece of shit.orangeban said:
I imagine the Detroit gangs augs are pretty much the same. Their augs might look as good as Jensen's, but I'm pretty sure his are far more advanced under the hood. He has a cloaking device and an experimental weapon that annihilates everything within 10ft. Beside Jensen, only a few characters have that level of augmentation and they're either members of a black ops team backed by the Illuminati or the CEO of a major biotech corporation.
Lol, not the discussion I was hoping to spur on, but I have to wonder now if there's an Xbox 360 in the trunk of the detroit gangs' augs!chimpzy said:
I enjoyed the writing. The stupid lines and stereotypes were amusing at times besides they have to have some ways to link the player to this new world.
If everything was completely alien, the way people spoke, slang etc it could be difficult for people to get into, people need anchors to their own world even if it is as daft as stereotype gangsters.
Besides the original Deus Ex had hilarious dialogue and the stereotypes were everywhere. Going to Heng Sha was just like going to Hong Kong in the original.
If everything was completely alien, the way people spoke, slang etc it could be difficult for people to get into, people need anchors to their own world even if it is as daft as stereotype gangsters.
Besides the original Deus Ex had hilarious dialogue and the stereotypes were everywhere. Going to Heng Sha was just like going to Hong Kong in the original.
Ok, I admit, Human Revolution is my introduction to the series; perhaps the "human" stereotypes are ironically par for the course? Good point.....Ubermetalhed said:
It certainly felt that way to me as well.Xprimentyl said:
My only experience with gangs is from watching Gangland on A&E, and in terms of the rest of the game's writing...it feels more natural when someone high up is talking than when someone normal or on the street is.
That said, slang and speech styles change with the times, and if you're looking backwards instead of forwards to depict styles of speaking, or in some cases trying to create new forms of slang to depict a future setting, it's going to sound fake no matter how you work it. Made no better when a lot of the longest talkers in the game often don't use slang or are written as straight talkers.
Then again, this is a problem with the script and the presentation, not so much the actors. Unless you're counting Jensen, who always came off as wooden yet smart to me.
Yes, thank you!AgentBJ09 said:
I thin Jensen is intentionally "wooden" to support however the individual gamer might choose to play him, but the NPCs, were straight out of camp. Only reason this disappointed thus far (still on my first playthrough,) is because of the humanity-driven implications. Does humanity really have a leg to stand on when the archetypal stereotypes are all we have the dall back on?
They could have still given him more emotion, how can you get invested in the story if the protagonist isn't?
That said, Human Revolution's writing is very flawed, every supposed "twist" in the story can be seen coming from miles away by anyone who's ever watched a few sci-fi stories or fiction as a whole. And it kind of makes it hard for me to care much about Adam, his quest or any of the (clichéd) characters so... eh.
Kind of a wasted opportunity.
That said, Human Revolution's writing is very flawed, every supposed "twist" in the story can be seen coming from miles away by anyone who's ever watched a few sci-fi stories or fiction as a whole. And it kind of makes it hard for me to care much about Adam, his quest or any of the (clichéd) characters so... eh.
Kind of a wasted opportunity.
For me the game had what I consider a true 90s cyberpunk theme and story. The stoic unflinching goatee and leather trench coat sporting hero, all street hoods having that South Central G persona, overly stylish art themes, plot involving conspiracy theories, just everything (both good and bad) you would expect from a 90s story.