Devils Advocate: The "Games as Art" Debate is a Disservice to Art and Games
- Thread starter Asparagus Brown
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Not at all! I imagine the trip on my magical flying saucer through the mushroom clouds of rainbow world would be quite boring without company.Srrrh said:
This is a mode of thought that I've found pops up quite a bit in the Escapist, where people take an argument and blow it up to something several times beyond the position it's supposed to be in an attempt to show how it's wrong. Below are a few examples...Asparagus Brown said:
Argument: "Games should be an considered an artistic medium"
Response: "But then every game would be art, even games that aren't art!"
Argument: "There should be more positive LGBT characters in games"
Response: "But if you put them in every game, Political Correct people win, and you'd have a bunch of tokens and stereotypes!"
Argument: "I think graphics are important in games"
Response: "GRAPHICS AREN'T THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. GO BACK TO CALL OF DUTY, PLEB"
More on-topic...
The point of getting video games "accepted as a medium" is about getting the general public at large to acknowledge that works of artistic merit can be made in video game form as much as they can be made in other things generally accepted as an artistic medium, such as music, film, painting, or sculpture. It's not to proclaim "every game is the Mona Lisa now."
Thanks for all the lively discussion, everyone!
Just to address the main points:
It is inevitable that in a discussion such as this, that "art" must be defined. There are many different ideologies which will influence this definition. A popular post-modern definition is that "everything is art", but I feel this is interchangeable with saying "nothing is art", which is a position of despair. Regardless of your subjective opinions on which individual games/works you feel are "true art", their value is lessened by this reductive reasoning. The Urinal, for example, was brought up as example of "a terrible work of art", and then placed along side a favourite video game, which, being part of "everything" is also art. Does it not devalue what you consider the "true art", the game, to include it with something you feel is meaningless? Why not live with your convictions and argue that the game is art, and that the urinal is not?
Also, keep in mind my point about art being autonomous and judged on its own merits. If it is felt that it is unfair that modern art is pretentious and unapproachable, but considered "art" and that your favourite mass-marketed game is not considered art because it doesn't hold these pretentions, by taking each work as an autonomous entity, their circumstances and popular perceptions become irrelevant and you can judge each work as it comes and dismiss them as you please based on your ideology of art.
Next, as has been brought up by assorted people, is a matter of terminology. I believe there are differences between an artist, an artform, an artwork, and Art. Despite it being a little confusing, none of the first three guarantee existence the fourth. They are essentially a creator, the medium he works in, and the resulting product. It is the resulting product that can then be judged as art or not. You're more than welcome to disagree about the last bit, but distinguishing between the differences in terminology is important, I believe, if we are to conduct this discussion on the same wavelength.
Also, those of you to point out to argue that the battle is to have video games accepted as a medium capable of producing art. You're quite correct! Though, reading through the responses, it is also a common opinion that "everything" is art and that, therefore, "all games are art". This is the mindset I set out to challenge.
Thanks all!
Keep discussing!
Just to address the main points:
It is inevitable that in a discussion such as this, that "art" must be defined. There are many different ideologies which will influence this definition. A popular post-modern definition is that "everything is art", but I feel this is interchangeable with saying "nothing is art", which is a position of despair. Regardless of your subjective opinions on which individual games/works you feel are "true art", their value is lessened by this reductive reasoning. The Urinal, for example, was brought up as example of "a terrible work of art", and then placed along side a favourite video game, which, being part of "everything" is also art. Does it not devalue what you consider the "true art", the game, to include it with something you feel is meaningless? Why not live with your convictions and argue that the game is art, and that the urinal is not?
Also, keep in mind my point about art being autonomous and judged on its own merits. If it is felt that it is unfair that modern art is pretentious and unapproachable, but considered "art" and that your favourite mass-marketed game is not considered art because it doesn't hold these pretentions, by taking each work as an autonomous entity, their circumstances and popular perceptions become irrelevant and you can judge each work as it comes and dismiss them as you please based on your ideology of art.
Next, as has been brought up by assorted people, is a matter of terminology. I believe there are differences between an artist, an artform, an artwork, and Art. Despite it being a little confusing, none of the first three guarantee existence the fourth. They are essentially a creator, the medium he works in, and the resulting product. It is the resulting product that can then be judged as art or not. You're more than welcome to disagree about the last bit, but distinguishing between the differences in terminology is important, I believe, if we are to conduct this discussion on the same wavelength.
Also, those of you to point out to argue that the battle is to have video games accepted as a medium capable of producing art. You're quite correct! Though, reading through the responses, it is also a common opinion that "everything" is art and that, therefore, "all games are art". This is the mindset I set out to challenge.
Thanks all!
Keep discussing!