Did anyone else just watch the Dr Who finale?

[Suhi89]

Awful. Absolutely fucking awful. The only thing I liked about that episode was the fact that I don't have to watch Clara and Captain fucking boring again. Hoo bloody ray. I mean I wasn't expecting gold because Moffat, but come on, when your audience is guessing that Danny is going to come back as a cyberman, overcome it with love and save the day, you've got problems pal.

Where do I start?

-Cyberman were naff, they didn't even kill anyone. They just doddered around, got out"logiced" by fridge logic then blew themselves up a crappy display of disregard for...any narrative structure, consistancy or quality control. They even screwed up the narrative of the episode they were in. Earlier, Cybermen explode and disperse a cybercloud, when the plot demands, they explode and instead burn up the cybercloud.

-Where the buggery did the Cyberbodies come from? "Nanomachines" would've worked fine, but no, it wasn't that. And if this new technology can create a Cyberbody, why bother with the dead, why not just take over everyone? Why the need for the personality in the Nethersphere at all? They don't need the personality, they need the brain. Which would've obviously been rotting but never bloody mind, "that's getting in the way of my concept which I have in no way fleshed out"; says Mr Moffat.

Why were the people in the Nethersphere given the option to delete their emotions? Why not just delete them and keep them in cyberspace till you need them? They're not fucking going anywhere.

-The scene where Danny and Clara were giving The Doctor shit and the show was on their side when he was telling them NOT to activate the bloody Emotional Inhibiter. Instead of trying to reason with them after they'd abandoned reason, logic, common sense, having encountered The Cybermen before, especially fucking Clara, what he should've said was: "E fuckin nuff, you need to learn to shut your cave, pick up any weapon you can find and twat the buggery out of him!"

Of course this is the Clara show so it did fuck all when they did activate it.

-Emotional Inhibiter. Yeah. Fuck off. They could've actually done something with that, given The Master said about her putting Clara with the Doctor in order to fuck him up (yeah she basically said that, meta, right?), a moment of tragic folly, The Doctor gives into Clara, showcasing The Masters point, Clara switches it on, Danny snaps her neck. (And there was much rejoycing), The Doctor languishes in The Master plot actually coming to fruition, feels be had. Then y'know, The Doctor can actually solve the problem with wit, cunning and intelligence, rather than the bollocks we got.

-The power of fucking love. FUCK OFF. You fucking hack writer. Learn to use your 45 minutes fucking productively! You've been doing this for 4 fucking years! I knew it was coming but still. ARGHH!

-Missy, I was all up for Missy, she seems a bit quirky but she turns into a cartoon character in this episode. Simmons' Master was a bit zany, but at least he was still "grounded". Moreover, her wanting to be "friends" makes no sense. The Rani would've been much better for this role (and perhaps she was going to be originally, we will never know).

-The Brigadier. Yeah....kinda really didn't like him popping up. I liked the Brigadier, but it's a naff cameo for people who know who he is, that sort of craps on the character, and a pointless attempt at a tear-jerker for people who don't. Also, why did he stick around at all?

To save The Doctors soul? The Doctors killed people before, lots of people, he wiped two civilizations off the face of the map. Tennent killed plenty of people with his own hands. Sure, it's a bit different with The Master but still, so what if The Doctor kills him? When you've murdered an entire planet, one villian isn't going to tip your afterlife scales.

-The kid. Yeah, bring the kid back for feel good fun and bonus feels points! Get out.

+Nick Frost as Santa. Huzzah!

Other than the fact the previous master was John Simm, I entirely agree with this. Particularly the bit about Clara being killed by Danny. I really cannot stand her character and he was really grating on me by the end, which is a shame because I quite liked him when he was first introduced.

 

[elvor0]

Other than the fact the previous master was John Simm,

Whoops, thought his name was Simmons, not Simm

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Now, if 11 and Clara didn't save Gallifrey until the 50th Anniversary episode, how the hell did Missy manage to connect her to the Doctor in the first place? It's not like she could take her own Tardis back in time and then connect them, because she would have had to have escaped from Gallifrey after it had been freed. Which hadn't happened yet. And it was trapped in another dimension.

FUCK.

 

[Zontar]

Now, if 11 and Clara didn't save Gallifrey until the 50th Anniversary episode, how the hell did Missy manage to connect her to the Doctor in the first place? It's not like she could take her own Tardis back in time and then connect them, because she would have had to have escaped from Gallifrey after it had been freed. Which hadn't happened yet. And it was trapped in another dimension.

FUCK.

Time travel, she be a cruel mistress (and also confusing as hell).

Or as they say, wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Now, if 11 and Clara didn't save Gallifrey until the 50th Anniversary episode, how the hell did Missy manage to connect her to the Doctor in the first place? It's not like she could take her own Tardis back in time and then connect them, because she would have had to have escaped from Gallifrey after it had been freed. Which hadn't happened yet. And it was trapped in another dimension.

FUCK.

Unless Gallifrey was going to be saved by the doctor without Clara in another potential timeline anyway, this other timeline being where Missy came from.

 

[Jesterscup]

So my thoughts....

Firstly I need to state that I'm biased:

I'm an old school whovian ( though pitiful compared to some whovians ), 'Old' who rarely had a story that was only an hour long, and often it took 3+ hours for a story. Changing to a format where at best we get 2 hours leaves us with little time to actually develop story properly. Secondly It's far to common for them to try and solve this problem by 'hinting' at some big overarching "series twist" that often involved the companion being some sort of special 'super-person/timelord/embodyment of the vortex'.

And this is where my first criticism of the finale comes in, While I like the idea of Clara being kept with the Doctor through Missy's machinations, it clearly does not make sense. Firstly it kinda ruins the whole 'impossible girl' stick, and secondly Clara appeared before the "re-appearance" of Galafrey, which gives us an unresolved paradox.

Overall, I'm loving the new Doctor, and I loved Missy as well ( I hope she comes back, she's an excellent counter-part to Capadli's Doctor ), Yes the writing needs to improve, but that was the case back in Tennent's time.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Are you guys serious.. best season finale I can remember.

Damning with faint praise there, perhaps.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Damning with faint praise there, perhaps.

Well, they tend to be pretty fluffy and insubstantial.

What people seem to forget is that it's always the power of love. Remember the previous season finale with the Master and how that ended? Remember when the doctor got magically cloned in a human body (despite the very same episode pointing out that this was bad) so that Rose could have her special happy ending with her doctor? This is the bread and butter of season finales. Whatever pretense of non-silliness there is in Doctor Who (and there are very, very few of those) tends to go screaming out the airlock as soon as the end of a season rolls around, and after many years of fighting that I'm okay with it.

That's why I thought this one was pretty good, because unlike the others it didn't point to its own plotholes. It didn't even try to tell us that when people really believe in the doctor (and accept Him as their lord and saviour) it psychically energizes him for no reason and makes him fly around. It got some good performances out of its actors (even the ones who haven't had much to work with previously) and used the goodwill to power through its forgettable story.

So why does this one get people pissed off? I can only assume that they have convinced themselves in the intervening time that Doctor Who is some kind of Robert Heinlein penned hard sci-fi, and it isn't, guys. It's sappy nonsense with absolutely no continuity.

I can't help but wonder if Moffat himself is to blame partly though, because he's written in this ongoing metaplot with all these recurring secondary characters and ongoing themes, and maybe that highlights the fact that there is no continuity. Maybe people can handle the occasional deviation into stupidity in something like The X-Files but couldn't deal with it in Friends. But there never was any continuity. Get over it.

 

[Kingjackl]

Now, if 11 and Clara didn't save Gallifrey until the 50th Anniversary episode, how the hell did Missy manage to connect her to the Doctor in the first place? It's not like she could take her own Tardis back in time and then connect them, because she would have had to have escaped from Gallifrey after it had been freed. Which hadn't happened yet. And it was trapped in another dimension.

FUCK.

Maybe it was a self-correcting paradox; Missy connects Clara with the Doctor so they can save Gallifrey so she can connect Clara so they can save Gallifrey, etc. We are dealing with the same writer who wrote 'Blink', so it's not uncharted territory.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Damning with faint praise there, perhaps.

Well, they tend to be pretty fluffy and insubstantial.

What people seem to forget is that it's always the power of love. Remember the previous season finale with the Master and how that ended? Remember when the doctor got magically cloned in a human body (despite the very same episode pointing out that this was bad) so that Rose could have her special happy ending with her doctor? This is the bread and butter of season finales. Whatever pretense of non-silliness there is in Doctor Who (and there are very, very few of those) tends to go screaming out the airlock as soon as the end of a season rolls around, and after many years of fighting that I'm okay with it.

That's why I thought this one was pretty good, because unlike the others it didn't point to its own plotholes. It didn't even try to tell us that when people really believe in the doctor (and accept Him as their lord and saviour) it psychically energizes him for no reason and makes him fly around. It got some good performances out of its actors (even the ones who haven't had much to work with previously) and used the goodwill to power through its forgettable story.

So why does this one get people pissed off? I can only assume that they have convinced themselves in the intervening time that Doctor Who is some kind of Robert Heinlein penned hard sci-fi, and it isn't, guys. It's sappy nonsense with absolutely no continuity.

I can't help but wonder if Moffat himself is to blame partly though, because he's written in this ongoing metaplot with all these recurring secondary characters and ongoing themes, and maybe that highlights the fact that there is no continuity. Maybe people can handle the occasional deviation into stupidity in something like The X-Files but couldn't deal with it in Friends. But there never was any continuity. Get over it.

That's no excuse to be bad, though. You could have a silly story, and still have a story. You could have Danny die without people finally glad to see the end of him. The Master could have had a random plan to take over the world that was in some way interesting.

Lots of Doctor Who stories have been sappy, nonsensical, and/or silly. But the season finales don't bother trying to be anything else.

 

[ghalleon0915]

Going to post before reading the previous postings, since I just finished watching the episode and my thoughts are still fresh...

What I liked:

I liked Capaldi and Missy's banter, and I liked the part with the Doctor flying towards his Tardis while in free fall. It was a bit contrived, but hey, just seeing Capaldi guide his way towards it was pretty fun to watch. Him becoming President of the world was kinda funny ( although how or why the rest of the world would agree to this seems, to put it mildly, farfetched). The bit when the Master...err..the Mistress handed the reins to the Cybermen got my interest sky high, and even her little monologue there was pretty apropos. I also liked the anger and frustration when The Doctor finds empty space instead of Gallifrey. Nick Frost as Santa at then end was a jolly good treat as well.

What I didn't like

Argg...the rest of the show.

I really wanted to like this episode, but as seems to be the case for the whole season, there were parts of it that I liked but mostly just wasted potential. There was a glimmer there for a moment, but I should have known that it would always point back to Clara and Danny, as it has for most of the season. I mean, a zombie apocalypse Cybermen style sounds kinda neat...but they didn't really terrorize anyone. I mean, people were taking selfies. I don't know, it seems that they really wanted to hammer the whole Clara and Danny thing ( what with all I'm never going to say I love you again) and they didn't let it develop naturally. Their whole relationship just seems incongruous; all it did was take the focus away from the Doctor ( which may well be their intention, I don't know). It's like those video games where they want you to feel for the protagonist by telling you what you should feel for them, instead of letting it grow organically.

And then there's Clara. One moment she's saying Doc is her besty, then the next minute issuing ultimatums, again. I used to like her too, but they made her into someone I just do not like. And I still do not understand why the Mistress would go out of her way to keep them together; it seemed they had an idea of what to do, but didn't quite know how to integrate it properly. I mean, I could go on and on, but I'll stop so I won't go off on one.

Sigh...what makes this galling is that I like Capaldi as the Doctor, and there were good ideas in there that never came into fruition because of the focus on the couple. I'm still onboard as a fan, but goodness sakes someone please get a handle on the storytelling.

PS - There are a couple of things that left me scratching my head - how did that boy in the end come back, and Gallifrey....if the Doctor went looking for it, shouldn't he look for it in that alternate universe? And how would he skip between universes? Perhaps the comments here will have some answers

 

[Terminal Blue]

That's no excuse to be bad, though. You could have a silly story, and still have a story. You could have Danny die without people finally glad to see the end of him. The Master could have had a random plan to take over the world that was in some way interesting.

Maybe I'm weird, but I genuinely don't understand why Danny gets so much hate.

River.. kind of, she comes off as a bit smug and her "the doctor is my bestest boyfriend ever" routine clearly rubbed people up the wrong way. But Danny, I don't get it. He is a supporting character. He has a fairly simple arc, but it is an arc and it's a lot more interesting than that of many other characters who are significantly better liked. Fuck, he's basically Mickey 2.0, or pre-Tardis Rory 2.0, or any of the other "boyfriend representing real life responsibilities" character.

I mean.. I find the gender politics of a lot of his appearances and lines in this season have been kind of.. reactionary but as far as I know noone has mentioned that, noone else seems particularly bothered. So what are people reacting to? What actually is so awful about Danny?

Because if I had to guess, I'd say what people are reacting to is actually Danny's role in the narrative. He's been the guy who is reigning in the wacky space fun by pointing out that it's incredibly dangerous and actually has serious consequences, and he's right. That's a legitimate point. There's always been this huge answered question of why the companions do what they do, given that they generally end up nearly dying every week.

Maybe the reason we don't like Danny is that he's basically pointing out the one plot hole fans of the series don't want to acknowledge, which is the looming question of why in any realistic world anyone would do what Clara does in the first place.

 

[Thaluikhain]

That's no excuse to be bad, though. You could have a silly story, and still have a story. You could have Danny die without people finally glad to see the end of him. The Master could have had a random plan to take over the world that was in some way interesting.

Maybe I'm weird, but I genuinely don't understand why Danny gets so much hate.

River.. kind of, she comes off as a bit smug and her "the doctor is my bestest boyfriend ever" routine clearly rubbed people up the wrong way. But Danny, I don't get it. He is a supporting character. He has a fairly simple arc, but it is an arc and it's a lot more interesting than that of many other characters who are significantly better liked. Fuck, he's basically Mickey 2.0, or pre-Tardis Rory 2.0, or any of the other "boyfriend representing real life responsibilities" character.

I mean.. I find the gender politics of a lot of his appearances and lines in this season have been kind of.. reactionary but as far as I know noone has mentioned that, noone else seems particularly bothered. So what are people reacting to? What actually is so awful about Danny?

Because if I had to guess, I'd say what people are reacting to is actually Danny's role in the narrative. He's been the guy who is reigning in the wacky space fun by pointing out that it's incredibly dangerous and actually has serious consequences, and he's right. That's a legitimate point. There's always been this huge answered question of why the companions do what they do, given that they generally end up nearly dying every week.

Maybe the reason we don't like Danny is that he's basically pointing out the one plot hole fans of the series don't want to acknowledge, which is the looming question of why in any realistic world anyone would do what Clara does in the first place.

For me, it's that whenever he's with the Doctor or Clara, people start whining at each other for no good reason.

Sure, what Clara is doing is dangerous (OTOH, he signed up as a soldier), but you don't have a long whinge about her going off with the Doctor when there's an emergency going on. There's a time and place for contrived badly written conflict (I guess), but it shouldn't slow down the story.

What did he add to the stories he was in, except the same annoying arguments over and over at random intervals?

(Mind you, I didn't like Mickey, or pre-Tardis Rory either, though they were just bad comic relief rather than anything)

 

[Smooth Operator]

They had a good build up, but then fumbled and completely forgot there needs to be some supporting reason for the big turnover... which there wasn't so the entire thing crumbled at the last moment. That ultimately makes all their work worthless.

Even the added conclusion was left empty, Santa was the only reason that made me consider watching again.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Eh, I preferred the previous episode. The whole bit with the Tardis keys? Good stuff.

This episode, not so much. It reminded me of 10's first series finale, what with the cybermen taking over earth, except not as good. Missy's entire motivation seems to be 'because I'm generically mad and evil', and everyone keeps going on about how the doctor is a bad person even though we've all been watching him fly round the universe saving people for God knows how many series.

 

[TallanKhan]

I really wanted to like it, it ticked a great many boxes, but it just didn't come together.

I don't really rate Steven Moffat as a showrunner. First and foremost he really doesn't seem to get endings, he leaves alot of strings untied (For instance, he aserts that The Master must have a Tardis somewhere, then after her "death" seems to forget about that alltogether) and overall his finales always seem to lack any tension.

Then there is the fact that most of what has happened in Dr Who since Steven Moffat took over is rather "Doctor centric". I get that may sound like a given anyway when you consider that he is the main character, but think back to when Russel T Davies was running things: Bad guys were doing evil things, and then the Doctor stepped in to stop them. Solid premis, and while superfically it might feel like nothing has changed, it has, now things are almost always: Bad guys doing evil things as an attack on the Doctor and rather than the Doctor saving everyone, it is almost always The Doctor restoring the status quo, with a shedload of innocent people as collateral damange.

It seems to me that unlike the Russel T Davies era, the best way the Doctor could have protected humanity during most of Steven Moffat's tenure, would just to have not been around at all, and that kind of ruins it for me.

 

[wonkots42]

Where's everyone getting the idea that Osgood is Kate's daughter? Is this in a book spin-off or something?

 

[TheRealCJ]

I think, simply put, that Doctor Who needs to disappear for another decade or so.

There's exactly three 'main' villains that control the seasonal story arcs, and then maybe two villains who show up in individual episodes multiple times. But all the story arcs are getting really, really predictable. As soon as I heard the worlds "Gallifreyan Technology", I immediately went. "oops, here comes the master." Because that's the only other time lord who ever does anything in that bloody show.

And isn't the master using dead humans to take over the world exactly the same story arc that got used LAST time he was the main villain of the finale? Only this time they couldn't even be bothered using NEW creatures, instead using one of the OTHER three-big-villains to fulfill the role of the Toclafane.

Believe me when I say this as a MASSIVE fan of Doctor Who: They need to shake things up beyond. "He regenerates and/or gets a new companion", or end the show for the time being. Enough time for it to be forgotten in the popular culture. So a decade or two from now, new show runners can come in and bring out the Daleks and Cybermen again, and reap nostalgia/impress younger people who have never seen it. Just like they have done for the last sixty years.

 

[Terminal Blue]

And isn't the master using dead humans to take over the world exactly the same story arc that got used LAST time he was the main villain of the finale? Only this time they couldn't even be bothered using NEW creatures, instead using one of the OTHER three-big-villains to fulfill the role of the Toclafane.

To be fair, the Toclafane were a lot cleverer and more interesting.

Spoiler

The toclafane massively subvert the whole conceit of Doctor Who, which is that when it comes down to the wire humans are fundamentally good and amazing and it's great that they're going to expand out into the galaxy and build all these wonderful civilizations which will endure until the end of time.. The toclafane are human beings who've ripped out all the "unecessary" bits in order to try and survive beyond the end of time itself.. and turns out that at the core human beings are a bunch of sadistic children who kill people because it's fun..

..and then everyone believes in the Doctor really hard and he uses space magic to undo all the bad stuff while Russell T Davies screams "THE DOCTOR IS JESUS! THE DOCTOR IS JESUS! DID YOU SEE MY CLEVER SYMBOLISM THERE! DID YOU? DID YOU??!!" over and over into the audience's ear, and then we just sail on as if we didn't hit a genuine existential crisis for a second there. Because, you know, season finale!

 

[Something Amyss]

As Zontar pointed out, I was talking about the emotion of grief.

Oh. Well, my bad. I read the whole post and literally didn't even consider that.