Did people forget this..?

[The-Traveling-Bard]

Did people forget just because they add a feature into a game doesn't mean they have to use it?

If a game has fast traveling, and if you're against it. DON'T USE IT. Self control.
If a game has over powered skills. (Skyrim crafting, etc.) Don't use it!
If a game has quest markers TURN THEM OFF. don't use it! (Unless there isn't any way to turn them, then feel free to complain)
Didn't like Fable 2 & 3 bread crumb trail? TURN IT OFF, AND DON'T USE IT!

Dark souls getting an easy mode?
Don't play the easy mode. Simple as that, and let's face it. Dark Souls needed a better tutorial system. It's a fact I shouldn't have to use google to figure out how to do certain things, and the item menu was complete utter trash. A gamer should *always* have a clear understanding of the games mechanics, and features. This doesn't make the game "easy" it makes the game accessible. Those are two different things. I don't understand why people confuse the two words.

I also see someone beg for Witcher 3 not to have fast travel. Um.. excuse me? What does a game featuring fast travel have to do with your personal experience? Nothing! That's what. If you don't like it then don't use it. If you like it then use it.

I can also go on, and on about other games but I think everyone gets the point.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Apparently so.

I dread seeing a "I use the resto/enhcnating loop in Skyrim and now the game is too easy" thread, because I know when I tell them that they dont have to use it, they just sit there like I told them its possible to live without breathing.

It's like the sheer idea that just because something is in the game, doesn't mean you have to use it, it just beyond comprehension.

 

[SomeLameStuff]

Some people are weak willed. If it's not in the game, they can't be tempted by it. That's their logic, however flimsy it is.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Windcaler]

Did people forget just because they add a feature into a game doesn't mean they have to use it?

If a game has fast traveling, and if you're against it. DON'T USE IT. Self control.
If a game has over powered skills. (Skyrim crafting, etc.) Don't use it!
If a game has quest markers TURN THEM OFF. don't use it! (Unless there isn't any way to turn them, then feel free to complain)
Didn't like Fable 2 & 3 bread crumb trail? TURN IT OFF, AND DON'T USE IT!

Dark souls getting an easy mode?
Don't play the easy mode. Simple as that, and let's face it. Dark Souls needed a better tutorial system. It's a fact I shouldn't have to use google to figure out how to do certain things, and the item menu was complete utter trash. A gamer should *always* have a clear understanding of the games mechanics, and features. This doesn't make the game "easy" it makes the game accessible. Those are two different things. I don't understand why people confuse the two words.

I also see someone beg for Witcher 3 not to have fast travel. Um.. excuse me? What does a game featuring fast travel have to do with your personal experience? Nothing! That's what. If you don't like it then don't use it. If you like it then use it.

I can also go on, and on about other games but I think everyone gets the point.

Its not as easy as saying dont use it in a lot of games. The Dark souls easy mode debate (which isnt really a debate since its not being done) is one major example of that. However Im not going to get into that because my opinions on art and the games design can be read in several of the other dozen threads that have been posted.

As far as quest markers, well no. The games built around them. This isnt morrowind where they give you directions. They expect you to follow those markers

Fast travel, I can kind of see and kind of not see. Right now Im playing morrowind and honestly I prefer the old Mark/recall spells where you designate a point in the world and you can teleport right there. They took that option out for the fast travel system so its not as easy as saying dont use it since the system I personally like isnt in the game anymore. If Mark/recall was in Skyrim I would totally agree with the dont use it idea but that isnt the reality outside of mods

I cant comment on the witcher because Ive not played a witcher game since the first one that came off as Mysoginistic making me completely uninterested i the rest of the franchise.

So while at face value Dont use it is good advnice its not always that simple

 

[DoPo]

If a game has over powered skills. (Skyrim crafting, etc.) Don't use it!

There are some problems with that. For one, you have to know in advance what's overpowered or not. I mean, the default assumption is that skills should all be usable. Some maybe less because they might not contribute to your playstyle (ranged weapons, when you just backstab people) or are otherwise not of use to you. Of course, people tend to choose abilities that are supposed to help them out in a game. Shocking, I know - it's as if that's what they were meant to be doing. And if one of these abilities suddenly changes the game to the point where challenge is removed completely...

If a game has quest markers TURN THEM OFF. don't use it! (Unless there isn't any way to turn them, then feel free to complain)

You haven't looked at the Skyrim quest log, I assume. NPCs literally tell you "Go here for X" without specifying where "here" is, the log says something like "I was told where X is" and that's it, you only get a quest marker to know what the location is. It's fixable by mods, however what if another game does it and it's not as easily moddable?

 

[The Madman]

The problem is that often games with those sorts of features are built around the presumption that someone will be using them. As others have pointed out for example; turning off quest markers in a game like Skyrim or Oblivion essentially makes the game unplayable because unlike previous games that did not feature a quest marker, the NPC and journal do not give you enough information to complete the objective without.

So while it's nice to say 'don't use it' the problem is that not using those features are sometimes not even a real option.

 

[Twilight_guy]

People get offended because a developer had the gall to add a feature to the game that they don't agree with. I think sometimes we forget that we don't commission games. Developer make games and we choose to buy them or not. Some people act as if they are making demands or making statements about what developers can and can't do and people just don't have that authority. They can affect that goal by getting gamers to all purchase games in a certain ways, for example never buying another game with feature X, but you alone as one angry dude don't make demands or control what developers do.

 

[DementedSheep]

Quest markers are bit of a different issue since if a game is built around them (like Skyrim) the instructions to get to your objective often aren?t specific enough for you to find it without them. Hell sometimes they don't even tell you the name of the place. If you were given adequate instructions then yes you could just turn them off.

Also I dislike having to gimp myself and ignore features that could have been fun and interesting to use because they are overpowered. I might, for example want to use bows because I like how it plays but don't like how easy it makes the game. Games should be balanced properly though I don't care in Skyrims case because its more of game to just screw around in. I don't play it for the gameplay.

Fast travel and difficulty modes I don't see any issue with. Though with fast travel I would prefer if there was a more...organic? way to get around as well as just teleporting from anywhere.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well that doesn't always work, when a game was designed with certain brain dead mechanics in mind the designers also went lazy.

Where a game without quest markers would have to be done in a way you can logically navigate the world, one with them doesn't, remove the markers from that and guess what... you are utterly lost because they never bothered orienting the player, or with topological features or quest directions.
Same goes for games with interaction point fluorescent outline nonsense, turn that off and suddenly the whole world is just flat because not once did they bother making subtle distinctions the player could figure out.
Traversing the land can be another horrible thing, if you made a gimped method of travel because teleport exists then people will obviously be fucked when using it.

Like I always said adding features on top of solid mechanics is fine, but replacing them with cheap shit never is.

 

[WoW Killer]

If a game has fast traveling, and if you're against it. DON'T USE IT. Self control.

I mod it out, because willpower xD

I agree with the general sentiment, but there's a difference when choosing an option at the start of a playthrough rather than not using something that's always available to you. Say with Skyrim, it would be better if there was a hardcore mode (much like New Vegas) without the fast travel, so you could make that conscious decision of how you're going to limit yourself right at the start, and then stick to it. Similarly, an easy mode has to be something you choose not to use right from the get go.

Also, sticking to that fast travel example, there's a sense that Skyrim's world wasn't all that well designed for travelling by foot. You've got the carriages to take you to the main towns, but it's a bit limited. There's a few key locations that take ages to get to (all around where the Forsworn are is a bit problematic) I sometimes use another mod which adds a few other carriages for some of the smaller towns. That's still not really perfect, as with that you've got the potential to skip things like the journey to Ivarstead near the start, which seems wrong. If they'd designed the world a bit better with all this in mind, there's the potential for stuff like extra carriages which unlock as mission rewards. Say you get a carriage in the Orsimer holds after you've done the quests there, or you can catch a ride to places like Ivarstead or Sky Haven, but only after you've traveled there for the first time. There's plenty they could do to improve the system.

But if it's just combat difficulty at stake, you can always tweak numbers. I can't really see the problem with that at all.

 

[Rack]

I'll throw another problem into this pot. If a certain skill or move is overpowered it takes something from the game whether you use it or not. One of the things I love in rpgs and similar is creating the perfect build optimising it and tweaking it over time. If there's a magic bullet skill that is grossly overpowered it can reduce that process to "take skill Y". If I don't then what I'm doing is no longer optimising my character and the process loses much of its luster. If multiple skills are overpowered then the process falls apart entirely and all I'm doing is picking a difficulty level.

Alternatively if it's an action game and that skill is part of your default move set you are left in a situation where there is no default challenge, the only reason the fight can continue is because you are hampering yourself to give your enemy a chance and you know at any time you could end it by using your broken move.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I hear ya dude. I can understand why some people dislike the master guide or whatever it's called in New Super Mario Bros and Donkey Kong Country Returns though since those are presented in a way that isn't necessarily obtrusive but once it pops up it kind of feels like the game is starting to pander to you...like when you're gaming at a friend's house, one of their games, and they try to take the controls and "show you some tricks real quick". Otherwise a lot of gripes are trivial. Dark Souls with Easy mode would make the series appeal to me slightly more. Since it seems Dark/Demon's Souls gives you health once you prove you don't need it (or whatever Yahtzee said) I thought (and expressed in a forum a few months ago) that it would be cool if they gave you easy mode (or Super Easy mode) for DS2 once you beat Normal or Hard modes. The quotes I got weren't scathing but still...I feel like I missed the point and fear there wasn't one to begin with...so instead I'm going to say Bioware is lame for letting me be an Engineer or, Smuggler or, Solider but never once let me play as a Twi-lek, Trandosian or, Wookiee in the numbered Old Republic games.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Yeah it doesn't excuse the devs for missing such an overpowered playstyle like in Skyrim but really just don't bloody use it if you're so bothered.

I'm gonna take Borderlands 2 as an example, you get a few guns from minute one in the Mechromancer DLC and I couldn't drop them fast enough. Yo get your pace ruining guns out of here son! It's the same with Dead Space 2, you can get all the badass armour AND four weapons from almost the start and there goes the cool sense of accomplishment you get for finding all the upgrades.

Oh there's no excuse for Darius blatently overpowered people in multiplayer games though. It's just unfun for practically everyone.

Fighting games are a bit different, most of the time characters aren't overpowered exactly they're just good at what they are designed to do. Like letting Nova faceroll your entire team because you didn't manage to punish that crouching medium all the time. Or not rushing down Lambda the moment the game starts (Lambda is practically unstoppable if she gets good spacing.) You let a character get into what they are designed to do you've backed yourself into a corner. Literally.


Unless you're Dark Wesker but I digress.

 

[Jandau]

It depends on the feature. If it's something like difficulty modes and such, then yes, it's easy to simply not use it. However, when you get to game mechanics, such as Skyrim skills, it's more of a gray area. Sure, you can not use them, but many players derive pleasure from mastering the game mechanics. Ignoring a segment of the game on purpose is abhorrent, or at the very least a constant nagging feeling. I WANT to craft items in Skyrim, I want to make use of the mechanic, I want to master it, but at the same time I don't want it to essentially break the game.

Poor design shouldn't be excused by ignoring it...

 

[Nieroshai]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

By this logic, Morrowind should be nigh-impossible. It was, at the very least, just a little difficult since I was so used to waypoints. I had to remember names and places and maps, and Oblivion onward never asked that much of me. But back then, Morrowind was considered one of the greatest RPGs of all time. So no, a sandbox WRPG does not need waypoints.

 

[Blunderboy]

But then what would they complain about?!
Think it through people!

 

[Sectan]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

Dishonored was like that too. That was the little smudge on a great game. Put this guy in a safe place. "Oh I turned off my quest markers. Where's that safe place?" Oh Pendleton wanted to talk to you "Uh where is he Havelock?" Oh, and Havelock was looking for you "Um where is he at?" There were some spots where eavesdropping would be useful, but taking orders from the loyalists was so vague and confusing sometimes. YOU HAVE TALKY PARTS PEOPLE, USE DEM TO TELL ME WHERE TO GO!

 

[BreakfastMan]

Try to play Skyrim without quest markers. Go ahead, try it. If the game is built around (a) certain feature(s), you can't just say 'don't use them'. It doesn't work like that.

Basically, this. It doesn't apply to all of your examples, but it does apply to some. If devs build there game around a certain play-style and don't provide accommodations for those who would not like to use it (like Oblivion with fast-travel), well... You are pretty much out of luck if you don't want to use it. :\ The idea you provided only works if the devs think to provide extra options for those who don't want to use those features, like Skyrim providing a cart transport system (which even then, isn't nearly as extensive as Morrowind's transport system, but is still better than nothing).

 

[Fluffythepoo]

The point is invalid in any pvp situation.
ex) highest rated arena team in wow last season was "BLIZZARD FIX PVP PLZ" it was composed of 3 shadow priests.. because theyre O-fucking-P

Also when a game dev develops a game with a certain mechanic in mind (like fast travel) you end up with a game thats severely lacking if you dont use the mechanics
ex) in gw2 theres lots of quests that will have you go back and forth across the world doing nothing but talking to 1 person as your objective, so you literally would spend hours doing nothing running back and forth on the same road between two people, something that would undoubtedly not be seen as a good quest design if fast travel wasnt a game mechanic