Discussion Regarding Inclusivity in the Gaming Community

[Artaneius]

I dunno, every time online articles talk about abusive and toxic gamers, I just never made the mental connection that they were talking about me. I mean, I'm not the type of person who sends death threats to people who makes videos I don't like, why would I? And frankly I don't get why so many people think that saying that there's an unhealthy culture of abuse in video games is an attack on gamers.

Mainly because the unhealthy culture of abuse isn't something that pops out of thin air; it comes from people within that culture. Plus, it's easy to paint everyone with the same brush, especially since people can easily make generalizations instead of pointing at specific targets.

I know the feeling. I used to get pretty upset whenever people would criticize Halo, or Dark Souls II or RWBY on this website. I liked them, and I still do (Well I like the older Halo games, the story in the 4 was a massive drop in quality. Gameplay was fine but story...eh...) They weren't even insulting the fans (They saved that for the MLP threads) they just criticized the show and I took it a bit personally. Trust me, I know what it feels like to get upset by criticisms even when you shouldn't. It's hopefully something you and I can get over. (Or just take the coward's way out like I did and avoid all RWBY threads)

I feel the same way as well. Of course, it's not something that always happens, and there will be moments where some people do go beyond criticism of the thing itself and will attack those who enjoy or support that thing. Not everyone does that, mind you, but it does happen sometimes from some people.

The culture and the communities that make it will decide to change or not. That's not for individuals to speak up and decide for them. If they choose to change, then change will happen. If they choose not to change, well that means it says the same and that's that. The harassing part comes from constantly bringing it up when it's obvious that no means no. If the culture has constantly shown that it's not willing to change, then leave them be. Stop bringing it up.

Let the culture decide when and what changes it wants to make as a whole. Not force it.

Basically `shut up and stop talking about it`?

Wow, so fresh. Very new.

Hm, let me think about it... no.

Hey dude, if I don't have a say in whether things will change, neither do you. So you can follow your own advice. I'll go my way, you go yours. All the best.

I agree. Neither one of us does have a valid opinion on what root gaming culture should take. That's for the majority of gamers to decide as a whole. And may your way lead to greener pastures my friend. Meaning I hope your path leads to a brighter future.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

As a StraightWhiteMale[sup]TM[/sup] I support equality and and greater inclusivity because:
A) it's the right thing to do
B) more choice and variation in games can't possibly be a bad thing
C) I'm sick to death of hearing/seeing the phrase "Straight White Male"
D) There are enough problems in the real world without making extra problems surrounding a pastime that's supposed to be about fun and entertainment.

I don't see many articles "spewing hate and vitriol [...] against "gamers"". Do I see a lot of articles about gender inequality, misrepresentation and toxicity within gaming and the gaming community? Yes. Are an unsatisfying number of them not worded carefully enough, causing accidental offence and occasionally appearing to lay the blame with the entire community? Sadly, yes.

Now, onto what we as members of the gaming community can do to combat the toxicity of some of our number. Sadly this is a tricky one. With the internet and anonymity, it can be very difficult to ensure that any one person suffers the consequences of being an arsehole. Fortunately, most multiplayer games include some kind of functionality for reporting rule violations. Start using these tools against the vile elements of our community.

Playing CoD? Hear some dick spouting off racist, homophobic or sexist shit? Report them. CoD gives you the tools to do so, and the developers encourage you to do so. In fact, most games provide you with the tools you need to report players violating rules, and in most games, using offensive language is a rule violation. By actively reporting these people we can ensure that they are punished, and send the message that we as a community will not stand for this bullshit. Also, actively challenge the people who behave in this way online. Some people just don't know better, and they can be helped. Others are actively going out of their way to be arseholes and we don't need them and we especially don't want these people being seen as representative of us.

"But Techno", I hear you cry, "How are we to stop these vile trolls who commit all their offences outside of multiplayer games?"
Well imaginary forum-dweller, I admit you have me stumped, but come on, we're a pretty clever bunch (collectively at least, maybe not so much individually) and I'm sure we can work out methods of combating them. Most social media sites have some method of reporting/dealing with harassment, so if you see it, report it.

There isn't much we as a community can do about the state of the industry or the games being made, without actually joining the industry ourselves, or going Indie and making the games we want to see. We can however make our wants known to the industry, and the internet is the perfect platform to do it.

We live in a different world now with the rise of the internet. People don't care about others any more and its time to adapt to it.

Do you honestly believe that?

 

[CatHands]

snip

again

My apologies, you are right about how it comes off as charged/biased commentary, but that wasn't my intent. I was using the term "gamer" ironically to refer to people who post hateful and misogynistic comments as I have seen them mentioned in some articles. However, lacking context this comes off as if I just referring to game players in general. It was late and I should have used a term that was more clear to everyone not just me as I was typing.

This was my failing in communication.

The idea behind what I said, rather poorly, was my belief that articles highlighting problems do not themselves create a solution. Solutions require some real actionable goals, something to act towards, or empower people to act. Articles discussing problems are important in that they highlight faults in a community or product, but that isn't the only thing required for change, it's just one step. I personally support any ideals to expand the horizons of games, but the way that I see this movement going is that everyone will nod and agree when a problem is brought up, and repeat when another negative thing occurs.

Perhaps you have a different viewpoint on how much value this has, and that is fine. I just think that at some point you reach a zenith of agreement and need something to keep driving the idea forward.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

This. All of this. Thank you very much, sir.

I, uh, you're welcome?

Not really sure what you're thanking me for, I was just sharing my thoughts on the matter at hand

 

[Rahkshi500]

Not really sure what you're thanking me for, I was just sharing my thoughts on the matter at hand

Sorry about that. It's usually a thing where someone, even if they're just sharing their thoughts on the matter, hits the nail of the head with regards to it, when they something that many people can agree and get behind on, so it would be why some people go "This!" or sometimes thank the poster for saying what needed to be said. I'm kinda new here, but it kinda seems to be that way out of threads here that I have read in the past.

 

[Fat Hippo]

It is clear that websites spewing hate and vitriol in articles against "gamers" is not an effective means by which to change the minds of the few people who feel the need to lash out and harass. No one has ever changed their mind by being shamed and having hate directed at them (studies pending)p

I'm sorry I think you lost me there

I'm really..WHO is getting the hate here? with Sarkeesian and Quingate? you think the poor gamers are being hated? oh come the frigg on

if a critical look at video games and how it handles women/ect is "hate and vitriol" then I don't know what to say , you might not agree with say.sarkeesian but if you interpret her videos as "hate" against you then...well the problem is you (figurative you...not "you" you)...really

this really strikes me as disingenuous,

I believe he may have been referring to articles such as these:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/192107/Opinion_Lets_retire_the_word_gamer.php

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

Sometimes it seems like the divide between the people writing about games and large parts of the audience is growing ever wider. "Hate" is probably the wrong word, but the "frustration" the writers of these articles are feeling is palpable. In part, I understand that frustration, but I don't see how getting rid of the term "gamer" is going to help resolve this conflict between the various groups "gamers" or the "hardcore" or "ludophiles" or whatever you want to call them.

Many journalists seem rather ashamed of the people they are writing for. Personally, I have never identified strongly with my hobby of video games as being a substantial aspect of my core personality, but many do, and even if they are in no way part of the group which harasses people online at the slightest provocation, they may still feel attacked when the very concept of gamers as a community unto itself is questioned.

This is just me theorizing. The psychological aspects of this entire situation seem endlessly complex. Just why do we have such a major issue within our still rather insular group? This didn't simply blow up with no backstory, but was rather a slow build of pent up frustration, until a singular event served as the match that lit the fire. The actual "story" seems increasingly irrelevant when compared to the ripples it is causing. I can't even begin to fathom the motives of the people who act in such fashions on the internet, but it is absolutely fascinating. It almost makes me wish we had a professional sociologist analyzing the situation.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The idea behind what I said, rather poorly, was my belief that articles highlighting problems do not themselves create a solution. Solutions require some real actionable goals, something to act towards, or empower people to act. Articles discussing problems are important in that they highlight faults in a community or product, but that isn't the only thing required for change, it's just one step. I personally support any ideals to expand the horizons of games, but the way that I see this movement going is that everyone will nod and agree when a problem is brought up, and repeat when another negative thing occurs.

Perhaps you have a different viewpoint on how much value this has, and that is fine. I just think that at some point you reach a zenith of agreement and need something to keep driving the idea forward.

Well, yes, but we are very far from a zenith of agreement. There's still a massive amount of reactionary backlash, which you can see in this thread alone.

Also, a lot of people are going to be concerned with issues they don't personally have solutions for, but seem to be neglected by those with the ability to make a difference. I'm not sure that the solutions to lack of inclusivity, at least at it's most basic, are that complicated anyway.