Divinity Original Sin: An Exercise in Burying Diamonds in Shit.

[Indecipherable]

The combat was pretty decent, the storyline and dialogue was appalling. I wanted to get back into it with the Enhanced Edition but just couldn't.

On the bright side Divinity: Original Sin 2 is being developed and has Chris Avellone on the writing team. With luck he can turn that ship around...

Source:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin-2/posts/1363117

 

[Zhukov]

From reading your post, it sounds like you're mired in the interminable opening town, which is heavy on the RPG, light on the TBS. Once you get past that point, the "storytelling" drops off significantly, and combat becomes much more frequent.

Yeah, I'm just now pushing north into the big lava church thing after clearing out everything south of that.

Unfortunately, the difficulty really falls off after the first major area as you start to power up, so you lose that knife's edge toughness on every fight. By the end you're really just in an extended victory lap.

Ew. That is... not promising. I'm level 9 and it's already feeling a bit like that. I thought I might just be momentarily over-levelled because I tend to be pretty thorough with exploration and side quests.

As to "The Special"...they actually tried making a non-special protagonist for DA2 and everyone whined. Now, they whined for a lot of reasons, but one of them was definitively that they were no longer The Special. Apparently an overwhelming segment of the game playing public still demands power fantasies.

Ehhh... I don't think power fantasies require a Special protagonist.

I guess it would depend on one's definition of a power fantasy. I mean, I found Joel from The Last of Us (different genre, I know) an agreeable sort of power fantasy in the sense that he's really, really not someone you'd want to face in a barfight. But he's hardly the chosen hero anointed by the hand of destiny.

I think at this point it's the interminable parade of Ancient Evils that's getting my dander up. Are wars, revolutions and the assorted follies of mankind somehow just not fucking dramatic enough anymore?

Separate inventories make a lot of sense because not everyone has the same skills or talents. Why would i put grenades on my warrior when 50% of the time they can't throw straight and end up throwing a fire grenade into a wall next to them blowing up the entire party? Why would i put scrolls on my archer, when my mage has more range to cast them with? Plus the sheer amount of items there are in the game.

What?

What I'm suggesting is one shared inventory for everyone a la Dragon Age. So if you want to compare equipment you don't half to pass the item in question to the desired character first. You just hit the equipables tab and there's all your gear right there.

Likewise if you want someone to slurp a potion or chuck a bomb they just pull it from the common inventory rather than having to stop before a big fight to make sure each individual character is carrying enough heal juice and molotovs.

If you're looking for a particular item, like a book or crafting component, you don't have to check four different inventories. You just hit the appropriate category tab and it'll be there.

It's essentially like having "magic pockets" for everything, all the time.

There are literally no benefits to individual inventories. Just wastes my time and displays a lack of common sense from the developer.

Not to mention instant kill traps

Oh yeah, those.

I didn't bring them up in the OP because it was already getting a bit wall-o-textish, but they were pretty dumb.

Do you have a character with enough perception stat? Then great, the traps will be revealed and your characters will automatically step around them, rendering them irrelevant. (Unless you had already issued a move command, in which case your characters will blunder straight into the revealed trap while yelling, "That's a trap!")

If you don't have someone with the required perception stat, well, the first you'll know of it is when you need to press the quickload button. Then you get to perform the delightful exercise of spamming AoE spells down in front of you every few steps.

Gameplay!

 

[Frezzato]

snip

Just to clarify, you're talking about the original Divinity, not the enhanced edition, correct?

I saw what you said about the inventory mess. I'm still considering getting the enhanced edition, but if they didn't fix the inventory then I might have second thoughts.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

...

I think a lot of you need to lighten up a little but alright. If anything, the music is downright amazing. So sad that the guy who was responsible for it all died rather recently.

D:OS though is really all about choices. They just give you a generic fantasy world to play in. I like it. Although in terms of combat, I do sincerely miss the sheer breadth of options you had in Neverwinter Nights. D:OS comes close but it's just not the same really. I dunno.

(BTW, I have the EE of D:OS.)

try the non-enhanced edition.

If you didn't buy it when it was out, you can't get it anymore. It's been removed from the Steam store.

 

[Frezzato]

snip

I think I'm still looking forward to the EE simply because the mechanics of controlling multiple characters under single player mode isn't utilized enough. Offhand I can only think of older RPGs, X-COM, and like...Aliens for the Commodore 64.

Granted, this is only possible because it's turn-based, but I really like the concept. Also, leaving it open to multiplayer is a bonus.

 

[Zhukov]

snip

Just to clarify, you're talking about the original Divinity, not the enhanced edition, correct?

I played the enhanced edition.

Since I only played a few chunks of the standard edition I can't tell you what is new or changed with the enhanced version.

 

[Frezzato]

snip

Damn. Thanks. I'm still gonna get it, but when it's on sale I guess.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Now I feel glad that I didn't bought it from the Steam Sale yet (the discount wasn't low enough for me). I was annoyed that my mate bought it without telling me since we were planning to co op.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Agree and disagree. Yes the story is shit. Frankly I don't understand why Larian continues to chain themselves to that same old setting (Divine Divinity is from 2002) that NEVER had a good story. Even though the first one was a very enjoyable game regardless.

But you have to also note that they're pretty much following the fan's wishes on that one. I once made a thread on their official forums before Divinity: OS got released, asking why they didn't simply start with a fresh setting and got absolutely blasted by tons of fans who apparently love the setting. There's simply still a public out there that WANTS the same generic fantasy stuff.

Finally, they seem to be aware of the nature of their story as well, it's heavily tongue-in-cheek all the way through anyway.

The combat is one of the best things coming out of the turn-based genre as of late however. Plus you have a massive amount of freedom in the way you interact with the world. So I don't feel like this game is overrated, especially not for the price.

Much of your complaints will also be adressed in Divinity 2. While I'm not under any delusions that the storyline will be any less generic, the things they're doing with co-op and interactive storyline are simply huge.

 

[veloper]

Combat is the game.

The devs should have gone with a more roguelite design for this game, so the player can get to the fun part quicker. Less story is better, because stories in games suck.

And how is the problem supposed to get any better with an attitude like that?

You dont get better at doing a thing by deliberately avoiding it.

That doesn't compute. The player cannot get better at the story, the story is what it is. Here's a great suggestion for you: pick a movie you don't like and try watching it over and over again until you like it. Me, I'll stick to trying to avoid crap.

 

[veloper]

Combat is the game.

The devs should have gone with a more roguelite design for this game, so the player can get to the fun part quicker. Less story is better, because stories in games suck.

The game needs to give you a reason to do combat though. I don't feel the need in life to run around with a sword cutting up people unless they've kidnapped my wife, stolen a precious artifact or are the incarnation of the fire lord.

That's what premises are for. SMB didn't really have a story, but you still know your goal is to save the princess. Sticking to the minimum is the key, when you have to produce something you suck at. It's better to have to endure a small fart than having to wade through a moat full of crap.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Combat is the game.

The devs should have gone with a more roguelite design for this game, so the player can get to the fun part quicker. Less story is better, because stories in games suck.

The game needs to give you a reason to do combat though. I don't feel the need in life to run around with a sword cutting up people unless they've kidnapped my wife, stolen a precious artifact or are the incarnation of the fire lord.

That's what premises are for. SMB didn't really have a story, but you still know your goal is to save the princess. Sticking to the minimum is the key, when you have to produce something you suck at. It's better to have to endure a small fart than having to wade through a moat full of crap.

SMB is a piece of shit, so you basically just proved my point.

 

[veloper]

Combat is the game.

The devs should have gone with a more roguelite design for this game, so the player can get to the fun part quicker. Less story is better, because stories in games suck.

The game needs to give you a reason to do combat though. I don't feel the need in life to run around with a sword cutting up people unless they've kidnapped my wife, stolen a precious artifact or are the incarnation of the fire lord.

That's what premises are for. SMB didn't really have a story, but you still know your goal is to save the princess. Sticking to the minimum is the key, when you have to produce something you suck at. It's better to have to endure a small fart than having to wade through a moat full of crap.

SMB is a piece of shit, so you basically just proved my point.

No, you completely missed the point. If you had to choose, would you rather have to taste a little shit or a lot of shit?

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Combat is the game.

The devs should have gone with a more roguelite design for this game, so the player can get to the fun part quicker. Less story is better, because stories in games suck.

The game needs to give you a reason to do combat though. I don't feel the need in life to run around with a sword cutting up people unless they've kidnapped my wife, stolen a precious artifact or are the incarnation of the fire lord.

That's what premises are for. SMB didn't really have a story, but you still know your goal is to save the princess. Sticking to the minimum is the key, when you have to produce something you suck at. It's better to have to endure a small fart than having to wade through a moat full of crap.

SMB is a piece of shit, so you basically just proved my point.

No, you completely missed the point. If you had to choose, would you rather have to taste a little shit or a lot of shit?

You seriously have never played a game with a good long, beefy story? You should get your hands on Gabriel Knight 2 or The Last Express.

 

[veloper]

Combat is the game.

The devs should have gone with a more roguelite design for this game, so the player can get to the fun part quicker. Less story is better, because stories in games suck.

The game needs to give you a reason to do combat though. I don't feel the need in life to run around with a sword cutting up people unless they've kidnapped my wife, stolen a precious artifact or are the incarnation of the fire lord.

That's what premises are for. SMB didn't really have a story, but you still know your goal is to save the princess. Sticking to the minimum is the key, when you have to produce something you suck at. It's better to have to endure a small fart than having to wade through a moat full of crap.

SMB is a piece of shit, so you basically just proved my point.

No, you completely missed the point. If you had to choose, would you rather have to taste a little shit or a lot of shit?

You seriously have never played a game with a good long, beefy story? You should get your hands on Gabriel Knight 2 or The Last Express.

Oh, there's a handful of games out there with a decent story and acceptable gameplay both, but you cannot play the same thing over and over again without the experience getting stale. (I prefered GK1 to the sequel BTW. I don't really like cheesy FMVs.)

Fortunately, I get my kicks out of beating challenges and I don't need the narratives, so I can enjoy a huge variety of games.

My tolerance for fanfic-quality writing and phoned in VOs is still limited though. It's great if a game studio can make a good game and include a good story too, but if their abilities are limited to just game design, I prefer they do just that, so I don't have to wade through crap to get to the enjoyable part.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I am probably pretty alone in thinking that the combat isn't all that good either. It starts out rather promising but there are two things holding it back for me and they are both intertwined in one another:

1. Mages are Gods. There's very little reason not to roll double mages and then getting two more mages for your party. Mages can use all the battlefield-altering and status inducing effects and deliver both the spikiest and most consistent damage in the game. Your warrior might be useful, but not as useful as a mage that can summon a warrior (of preferred element) and then go to town with status effects, damage, debuffs, buffs and what not.

2. The way the campaign is set-up means you go through "zones" of a specific element, which makes some mages less effective and others super-effective. Your water mage will have a blast when you are in the fire zone. Your fire mage will be a Super God in the winter zone and when you are in the poison area etc.. To off-set this you just spec each Mage in two different disciplines, so that they always have another set of spells to fall back on. The biggest problem with the zones is that they quick devolve the game into tedium, since you quickly find a rote way of doing things. "oh fire zone, let' start with Rain and then lots of wet debuffs", "A winter zone, time to whip out the burning spells" etc., very seldom do you find yourself in areas where you face enemies that are of different kinds and which require multiple approaches within the same encounter.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Oh good. Its not just me. I couldn't get passed the opening town. I mean I've probably spent 2+ hours wondering back and forth trying to find someone or figure out what to do or whatever. Its insanely boring.
And if this is what rogue-like is supposed to be, you can keep it!

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

No, the real problem is the sheer volume of garbage. The game opens with a couple of relatively simple tutorial fights, as one might expect. It then proceeds to lock you into a small town and make you trudge back and forth talking to boring NPCs about boring shit. You can leave the town and go find a fight, but you'll be horribly under-leveled which is fatal on harder difficulties. (And no, it doesn't let you turn the difficulty down, grind some XP in baby mode and then crank it back up.) So the only way to proceed is yawn your way through the dialogue. Which you'd need to do to advance the quests anyway. This takes hours. Fucking hours. Especially on your first run when you don't know where everything is. If I hadn't played my friend's saves beforehand, thus knowing there was a light at the end of the boring, talky tunnel, I would have given up at this point and wandered off in search of something more stimulating, like reading a dictionary.

Oh, and for some bizarre reason they went to the expense of voicing everything. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for voice acting in games, but this game uses an old school dialogue system, much like the old infinity engine games. So the dialogue text is always right there in front of you and it's not like subtitles where you can turn them off. And since anyone can read faster than anyone can deliver lines, you'll just end up reading ahead and skipping the voiceover. Especially since, as we've discussed, the dialogue content is shit. Plus the actual voice acting is mediocre at best

They also went to the trouble of recording delightful ambient dialogue. Which will promptly driving you fucking insane if you make the mistake of standing still around any friendly NPC. You thought Bethesda NPCs repeated themselves a lot? Let me tell you, they ain't got a thing on these fuckers who will mercilessly churn out their two lines every ten seconds or so.

Then there's the interface. Specifically the inventory interface. For no good reason all your characters have separate inventories, which is fucking unforgivable in a world where Dragon Age showed us how fucking pointless that was. I realize it makes sense for co-op, so your jerk friend can't slurp down all your potions, but there's no reason for it to exist in the single player. It just adds the tedious task of divvying up supplies to the already tedious exercise of comparing gear stats and swapping out 12 armour boots for 14 armour boots.

The end result is a bit bizarre. It's as if the developers made a fairly neat turn-based combat system, tested and refined it, then decided that actually, what players really want is to spend two thirds of their time wading through a river of shitty dialogue and shuffling items between inventories.

I think these are my problems with the game too. After coming from Wasteland 2, all prepped for some fantasy Xcom...i ended up having to restart the game after finding out the skill for speaking to animals is a thing i should've chosen first to unlock more quest, dialogue and juicy experience points. That in itself wasn't too bad, it didn't feel like it wasted too much valuable time at the...err, time. It was that bloody town with the long ass quest that i was repeating for the 3rd time due to getting caught blowing my nose on a passing cupboard and having every soldier aggro on my team with no option to talk my way out, killing them all...the slow running speed plus the slightly awkward camera angle of never quite showing enough of where you're going no matter how far you zoom out as i was forced to plod through plot hoop, item collecting between opposite sides of the map...started to grate against the brain strings that play the wonderful tune of "you're wasting your valuable time and you're still mortal by the way" which is impossible to ignore. So i gave up and sold it the next day. Also i feel like i am under appreciating voice actors by skipping dialogue in games and this game had soooooo much shit dialogue obligating me to bear (heh!) endlessly.
The incessant micro-managing through clunky UI is the cherry on top of the already sizable dealbreaker.
I do appreciate the effort and seemingly vast content provided with the interesting combat, as it is evident this game is no hack job/rushed work. But it is for people with much more disposable time and patience than me.
So umm...agreed! Maybe the sequel can improve these issues?