DLC On The Disc, What Is The Big Problem?

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Velocity Eleven

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Sometimes you buy a game, and there is content on the disc that you have to buy an "unlock key" to gain access to. I simply don't see why people have such a hate for this system.

Firstly, if we compare it to the other form of day-one DLC, which is simply downloading the content, then the on-disc system has 2 main advantages:
1. It takes less time to download
2. It takes up less space on your hard drive

I don't see how this is such a bad thing. Just because the information is on the disc you bought doesn't mean you are suddenly entitled to everything on it by default. You cant for example legally distribute music from a CD you bought, just because you own the physical disc doesn't mean you suddenly can do whatever you want with it because there are rules and regulations, laws and agreements.

Did people ever complain that they should suddenly be granted access to all the levels in Super Mario Bros. just because they bought the cartridge?

The thing is, people don't buy games because they have read all the guides and walkthroughs to know every nook and cranny of the game. Its not like the buyer agreed to "x amount of gameplay time" when they bought the time. Some games last just a few hours, others can last hundreds. We buy games naturally knowing that we don't know the full content of what we are getting. The fact is that people look at the content and judge that as standard.

If (hypothetically) Sonic The Hedgehog had another level after the final boss that you had to pay extra for even though it was on the cartridge, there would be an outrage:

"why are they making me pay for something that comes on the cartridge? I should get it with the rest of the game"

but as the game stands, are people complaining that there is no extra level after the final boss? No. Why? because like I said before, the range of quality/time in which games are made is so vast to begin with is that there is no real standard of how long a game has to be.

lets say "x = quality of a game when you buy it"
and "y = quality of a game as on-disc DLC"

since the range is so wide, 1 < x < 100 (arbitrary numbers to denote "quality" by the average player)
now, if "Game A" has "x = 20, y = 0" with no on-disc DLC
and, if "Game B" has "x = 22, y = 3" with y being the DLC

in that case we would have people complaining that Game B's "x" should be 25, because y should be transferred onto x.

Why?

If Game A's "x = 20" is acceptable then why isn't Game B's "x = 22" acceptable? This makes no sense at all!

Now lets say "Game C" has "x = 15, y = 5"

This means that if both games are charged for at retail at an equal standard price, this is a completely different issue. This is the issue of where the overall price of the game (x+y) is increased. And with "y" being something you download with your account, this brings in different issues. The issues that come with DLC in general, such as not being able to re-sell it and taking up harddrive space. But this issues have NOTHING to do with where the DLC actually resides.

What I am against is prices that are too high for the game, the cost of the game should be relative to "x" and the cost of DLC should be relative to "y" (maybe not in the same proportions, but still relative none the less)

TLDR Version: Cost of games and DLC should be based on much each thing is worth, not based on where the information lies
 

imperialreign

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I think it stems more from this sense of self-entitlement most people have come to latch on to. There's a muddled way of thinking that goes: I bought the game, I own the game, I should have access to everything on the disk/included with the game, I can do whatever I want with the game.

. . . and as soon as someone hears they spent $60 on a game, only to find out there's some locked content they can't access, all hell breaks loose because they feel entitled to it.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Day one DLC is a disgrace in itself, so of course people are miffed with content on a disc they paid for that they have to pay extra to unlock.

Velocity Eleven said:
Did people ever complain that they should suddenly be granted access to all the levels in Super Mario Bros. just because they bought the cartridge?
That's something entirely different. If you're good enough you'll get access to all the levels on the cartridge. You can finish the game and do 100% of the content. With DLC on the disk but locked away until you pay extra, it doesn't matter how good you are at the game, the only way to get 100% is to pay.
 

Mr Pantomime

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Interesting. Ive actually never heard of on-disk DLC as a big thing. Do you have any examples?
 

Velocity Eleven

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KarmaTheAlligator said:
Day one DLC is a disgrace in itself, so of course people are miffed with content on a disc they paid for that they have to pay extra to unlock.
that itself is a separate issue, which I'm not too sure about at this point
 

V TheSystem V

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Mr Pantomime said:
Interesting. Ive actually never heard of on-disk DLC as a big thing. Do you have any examples?
Resident Evil 5's Versus mode. Capcom revealed it was already on the disk and were selling it for 400MSP, which is a rip-off seeing as the mode wasn't even very good.

Also Jill Valentine on Marvel vs Capcom 3 was already on the disk. Yet again, selling for 400MSP.

Capcom seem to love holding stuff from people, but the Jill stuff for MvC3 apparently wasn't completed in time or something, so not all of it was on the disk.
 

andz_ryan

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Lets take sandwiches as an example.

You spend £10 on a sandwich, You eat it, you're happy.

Scenario 1:
The next day you go to the same sandwich shop, the sandwich is now 75% of the size of yesterdays sandwich but the same price. "Don't worry" says the sandwich maker, smiling suspiciously, "We now sell chunks of sandwich which you can by to make it a full sandwich". You pay £10 like last time but also spend £3 on a chunk of sandwich to make it the same size as yesterdays sandwich, other wise you'll just be hungry.

Scenario 2:
The next day you go to the same sandwich shop, and happily buy the same sized sandwich for the same price. "Hey" says the sandwich maker smiling happily, "We just started selling quarter sandwiches, since you enjoy that so much why not treat yourself to a little bit extra". Deciding you treat yourself you buy an extra quarter sandwich for £3 (a little over a quarter of the price, but hey, there's extra packaging) and munch it down happy at that little bit extra you've had.

Scenario 3:
The next day you go to the same sandwich shop, and happily buy the same sized sandwich for the same price. As you happily munch on your sandwich you finish about 3/4 but find the last 1/4 locked inside a box. Angry, you return to the sandwich shop. "Hey mister what's the deal, why can't I reach the rest of my sandwich?" you complain. "oh that?" says the sandwich maker, smiling like a Grinch. "You need to pay me an extra £3 for the key to unlock that part of the sandwich". "But you've already spent money and materials on that part!". "Yeah but if you're hungry, you'll pay it" he says rubbing his hands together. You begrudgingly hand over £3 extra and munch on your last 1/4 of a sandwich with nothing but a bitter taste in your mouth.

To make matters worse you realise that he forgot to put the filling in that final 1/4.


This is basically the difference between Post release DLC and DLC already on the disk.
 

yuval152

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Mr Pantomime said:
Interesting. Ive actually never heard of on-disk DLC as a big thing. Do you have any examples?
With alice:madness returns there was a DLC on the disc but it was origin exlusive(people on steam couldn't play unless editing the .ini file)

OT:I don't have a problem with it unless they make the DLC free,if it's paid then.....nope.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Velocity Eleven said:
KarmaTheAlligator said:
Day one DLC is a disgrace in itself, so of course people are miffed with content on a disc they paid for that they have to pay extra to unlock.
that itself is a separate issue, which I'm not too sure about at this point
Well you said on disc DLC is a form of day one DLC, and I agree with that, but it's still disgraceful that the business model actually endorse such things.
 

Mr Pantomime

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andz_ryan said:
That example implies you keep buying the exact same game over and over. It might work if they were different types of sandwich.

Still trying to make my mind up about the idea.
 

StrixMaxima

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I always compare DLCs with oldskool Expansions. If the DLC truly expands the core of an already robust game, it's a win/win scenario: I want more of that game, you give me more of that game.

However, I never purchase:

- single characters in fighting games (specially since most are priced 5$ a pop, which is ludicrous)

- Modes (unless it is something really revolutionary and a real addition to the game). 10 bucks for online multiplayer? Dream on, developer.

- Things that should obviously be part of the core game.

Games are being released more and more half-assed because the collective consumer is willing to keep on paying and being ripped off. A sad state of affairs.
 

Batou667

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Velocity Eleven said:
Just because the information is on the disc you bought doesn't mean you are suddenly entitled to everything on it by default.
YES IT DOES. Or at least, it bloody well should.

In your example you point out how on-disc DLC is no different from day-one DLC. You're probably right, there's no theoretical difference whatsoever. I pay money, I get my content, wham bam thankyou ma'am. In a PRACTICAL sense though - on-disc DLC is an absolutely revoltingly cynical idea. The developers can't even claim that the content wasn't quite finished for launch, as IT'S ON THE BLOODY DISC in its FINISHED STATE.

As I mentioned in the thread about buying physical copies of games, there's a world of difference between buying something and paying for something. Buying for something implies an exchange of cash for goods or services. People like buying things, as they increase the amount of stuff they own. Paying for something implies some kind of added charge, like paying tax or service charge. People hate paying for things.

Tl;dr: Charging for on-disc DLC is phenomenally greedy and a middle-finger to the people who have just bought your game. If I had bought a game and figured out a way to unlock the on-disc DLC without paying, I'd do it in a heartbeat and then post the method online without a shred of guilt. No money-grubbing b*stard is going to dictate to me which parts of MY PROPERTY that I OWN can be used, when, and for what extra charge.

andz_ryan said:
Lets take sandwiches as an example.

You spend £10 on a sandwich, You eat it, you're happy.
Mate, for £10 I'd better be doing backflips of ecstacy, and that's speaking as a Londoner!
 

Velocity Eleven

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Fucking disgrace of an idea, and shame on you OP for defending them. There is no noble intent behind content locked on the disc. There is no concern for what gives the gamer a better experience. They are doing it simply because they can get away with it, and it makes them more money. It doesn't matter to them that more people than ever now simply don't have the money to spend on stuff already on the disc.

If you're defending this, then you're defending your own right to bent over and rammed up the arse by publishers. You may enjoy being shafted like that, but I would like to keep some dignity while playing my games.
I'm careful with my money, if I dont think something's worth buying then I wont bother, and I dont believe that paying £40/$60 for a game is justified 99% of the time... I buy maybe one or two full-priced games a year. Most games I buy for less than £10, I don't call that being bent over and rammed up the arse by publishers, I call it being sensible and realistic.
 

Sixcess

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I think the problem is that whilst DLC is often described as being 'stuff that wasn't ready when the game went gold but we can offer it to you now", Day 1 DLC in particular is more likely to be 'stuff that was already in the game but that we decided to take out and charge extra for.'

Let's not kid ourselves. DLC is not something developers dream up at a later date. For big titles I'd be very surprised if the DLC wasn't designated as such from very early on in the project. It's not bonus content, it's simply a way fo charging $70 for a $60 game.
 

Velocity Eleven

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another thought... if people are so much set on paying directly for the content on discs, does that mean a 3-disc game should cost $180 at launch?
 

StarCecil

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Normandyfoxtrot said:
Except the game is full without the dlc their "withholding" from you.
They are withholding content from me. This was content that was good to go on the game's release, that they decided to arbitrarily lock off to charge me an extra buck for something that was already there, just denied to me for the sake of charging an extra buck. It's dirty and underhanded. As has been pointed out above, the Versus mode of Resident Evil 5 was already on the disc. Capcom decided to lock it off so they could charge another fifteen dollars on top of the game's cost.
 

Velocity Eleven

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once again, I ask:

lets say "x = quality of a game when you buy it"
and "y = quality of a game as on-disc DLC"

since the range is so wide, 1 < x < 100 (arbitrary numbers to denote "quality" by the average player)
now, if "Game A" has "x = 20, y = 0" with no on-disc DLC
and, if "Game B" has "x = 22, y = 3" with y being the DLC

in that case we would have people complaining that Game B's "x" should be 25, because y should be transferred onto x.

Why?