Do all women like jerks? No (a rant)
- Thread starter Hiraeth
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haha there are quite a few things i could say to this, but ill just say kudos to you, awesome well thought out post. there are so many damn sides to this topic that's been beaten to death on the shy creep nerd side, so well done for posting this.
You missed a major bit.Dags90 said:
David Schmitt, of Bradley University in Peoria, Illinois, surveyed 35,000 people in 57 countries and found a similar link. "It is universal across cultures," he said.
Here's another link.
So who should I trust more? Two university researchers coming to the same conclusion through two different researches? Or random people on the internet making arguments through personal experiences and anecdotes? If I made a weak argument, you make an even weaker one.
Sure, the hundreds of boyfriends being dragged to the premiere of Twilight are in for the 'lasting, happy relationships'. The simple fact is, most people, especially the ones you're criticizing for joining forums that try to create some kind of formula for baiting chicks, are driven by hormones.Ham_authority95 said:
And claiming that we are too advanced not to be affected by biology? That is beyond naive. When even our very abstract idea of morality can be altered by changing biological factors, believing that evolution no longer applies to us is pure arrogance.
Hmm... interesting... I find the best relationships are the ones where both partners can be themselves without wondering "What will they think of me?"
personally, i think that you should just be who you are, if you are a geek, be a geek, if you want your hair long, grow it long, if you want to be a prick, get the f*ck out of a forum that i feel should be a good place for both men and women to hang out and relax. on the note of "do all girls like jerks?" no, of course not, that'd be silly, i know people nicer and more sensitive than me who have never had a girlfriend and people who are both funnier and better-looking than me who have also never had a girlfriend, i've had 3. i think it's just like everything else: there's variety everywhere, there is no "right" or "wrong" about it, you just have to stay positive and hope that luck sides with you
but no, not all girls like jerks and not all guys like sluts, there are some girls and guys born for the kitchen and many, many more who are independant and just as much of a person as anyone else you know, so can we please PLEASE stop generalising and marginalising people? it's not getting anyone anywhere.
on a not-quite-so-unrelated note, can feminists stop being so rowdy and oversensitive? and can practically every guy in existance think about how girls feel just a little more often? in terms of legality and laws, women have more on their side than men, but the world is still male-dominated. could we please try to sort this out soon? you feminists want equality? even out the laws. all the guys who wonder why they haven't got a girlfriend want girls to like you? think of their feelings first and stop making degrading films/images of women.
right, that went on for a little longer than expected. sorry if i offended anyone, just giving my opinion on the subject.
but no, not all girls like jerks and not all guys like sluts, there are some girls and guys born for the kitchen and many, many more who are independant and just as much of a person as anyone else you know, so can we please PLEASE stop generalising and marginalising people? it's not getting anyone anywhere.
on a not-quite-so-unrelated note, can feminists stop being so rowdy and oversensitive? and can practically every guy in existance think about how girls feel just a little more often? in terms of legality and laws, women have more on their side than men, but the world is still male-dominated. could we please try to sort this out soon? you feminists want equality? even out the laws. all the guys who wonder why they haven't got a girlfriend want girls to like you? think of their feelings first and stop making degrading films/images of women.
right, that went on for a little longer than expected. sorry if i offended anyone, just giving my opinion on the subject.
Hey, first post to the forums. Might as well be in a controversial thread-- although it's kinda sad that this is controversial. Well said to the OP. I've been around teh internets long enough to have seen far too many threads started by socially challenged young men who are convinced that "nice guys finish last" and "women love jerks". As someone said earlier, it's usually pretty easy to figure these kids (hopefully kids) out-- they're the one muttering and staring at their feet when anything with a couple of X chromosones pass by.
Lest I sound too harsh here, I'll be the first to admit that iwassociallyretardedinhighschooltoo (Ok, so maybe I'm still sensitive about it). But guys, look, the answer isn't being a jerk. It's just learning a bit of self confidence, and getting out to meet girls with your common interests. Just running up to that model and hanging on her won't get you anything. Odds are, she's pretty boring anyway. And believe it or not, there's girl geeks out there-- geek here in the loving sense of those who play videogames, love SF, and frankly, just have a good imagination. And you know what? Some of them are pretty cute. Like my wife, to take a not so random example. Think "If there were zero chance of having sex with this girl, would we still be friends?" If the answer is yes, you've got a winner.
Re: Studies PROVE girls like jerks! As someone who isn't a research psrink, but has a somewhat worthless degree in it and is an et al on an obscure neuroscience paper, you guys need to stop reading science popularizations and look up the actual papers. If you read them, you'd find out that the whole Dark Triad concept is about the correlation of various "anti-social" traits. One study looked at the sexual habits of males with the DT characteristics and discovered that they (unsurprisingly) had difficultly sustaining long term relationships. ONE of the data points was how many sexual partners they had. Think about it: a high number of sexual partners would mean that an individual could not sustain relationships (or cheated a lot, which amounts to the same thing).
Of course, the popular press picked that up and ran with it as "GIRLZ LUV JERKS!!!!". File that one with "CHOCOLATE IS GOOD FOR YOU" after they discovered it had antioxidants. Never mind all the fat and sugar. I know it's a shock, but you can't always believe what you read.
Heh. I know the internet well enough to know that this post will be followed by somebody saying "Noooooooo!!!111 It really IS true. LOTS of studies. And this dweeb wrote a book a couple of years ago, and was even on a talk show!!!!1111" Because no one ever stands down on forums. But seriously, for those of you worrying about whether you'll ever "get a girl", don't. It all works out. Just don't be a jerk, m'kay?
Lest I sound too harsh here, I'll be the first to admit that iwassociallyretardedinhighschooltoo (Ok, so maybe I'm still sensitive about it). But guys, look, the answer isn't being a jerk. It's just learning a bit of self confidence, and getting out to meet girls with your common interests. Just running up to that model and hanging on her won't get you anything. Odds are, she's pretty boring anyway. And believe it or not, there's girl geeks out there-- geek here in the loving sense of those who play videogames, love SF, and frankly, just have a good imagination. And you know what? Some of them are pretty cute. Like my wife, to take a not so random example. Think "If there were zero chance of having sex with this girl, would we still be friends?" If the answer is yes, you've got a winner.
Re: Studies PROVE girls like jerks! As someone who isn't a research psrink, but has a somewhat worthless degree in it and is an et al on an obscure neuroscience paper, you guys need to stop reading science popularizations and look up the actual papers. If you read them, you'd find out that the whole Dark Triad concept is about the correlation of various "anti-social" traits. One study looked at the sexual habits of males with the DT characteristics and discovered that they (unsurprisingly) had difficultly sustaining long term relationships. ONE of the data points was how many sexual partners they had. Think about it: a high number of sexual partners would mean that an individual could not sustain relationships (or cheated a lot, which amounts to the same thing).
Of course, the popular press picked that up and ran with it as "GIRLZ LUV JERKS!!!!". File that one with "CHOCOLATE IS GOOD FOR YOU" after they discovered it had antioxidants. Never mind all the fat and sugar. I know it's a shock, but you can't always believe what you read.
Heh. I know the internet well enough to know that this post will be followed by somebody saying "Noooooooo!!!111 It really IS true. LOTS of studies. And this dweeb wrote a book a couple of years ago, and was even on a talk show!!!!1111" Because no one ever stands down on forums. But seriously, for those of you worrying about whether you'll ever "get a girl", don't. It all works out. Just don't be a jerk, m'kay?
my opinions on the subject, expressed in comic form!!! it's in stick figures by the way, cause ms paint couldn't make a human if it tryed.
hope everyone enjoyed
hope everyone enjoyed
The real problem for guys, and I think for girls as well, is that our first relationships often turn out to be eitherHiraeth said:
a) The tease
b) The bed-notcher
or c) The nice one who's been so mucked around that she wants to test the relationship to it's limits.
And a lot of us turn into Cs after getting chewed out, which continues the process.
Part of the problem is we're driven to find our "perfect" match...which when you're young tends to be Tits/Ass. And when the hormones are in full swing forming coherent sentences is blurble blurble I LIKE YOUR CHEST! [sub]shitshitshit[/sub]
So, after a number of these setbacks, and seeing the GORGEOUS ANGELS THAT ALL WOMEN ARE (Remember, those hormones are a *****) on the arm of SOME BLOODY JERK WHO DOESN'T APPRECIATE HER, we justify it by creating that idea.
It is tough though, because the As and the Bs know that we're still immensely easy to get to do whatever they want with just a hint of a possible in. And then we're crushed again.
In the mean time, most of the girls are probably going through the same thing as these sweaty boys are stumbling after her, reeking of lust and they're just not as delicious as the REAL men that tell her how stunning she looks. (And often they're just Bs...we RARELY have As in guys unless they're going after the wallflowers for a bet)
(Yes, we're utter bastards at times)
Soloution? That's way beyond me. Possibly the girls being a bit more forward about their desires or lack of them, possibly the guys not acting like puppies or jerks - but when the only chances of "romance" tend to revolve around alcohol, there's always going to be crossed signals.
Perhaps just letting guys and girls talk more, without the Condom of Damocles?
I see that some people are saying stuff like: well jerks don't have long term elationships even if they do get a lot of women.
So? The complaint in general is not that the jerks get the long term relationships, it's that women/girl/females/etc like them. As long as they do get at least short term relationships, flings, one night stands (and plenty of them, as it would seem), to me this still means that women like them.
I mean, even for a one night stand the people involved still have to like each other at least on the most basic of level, right?
So to me that argument does not hold up.
So? The complaint in general is not that the jerks get the long term relationships, it's that women/girl/females/etc like them. As long as they do get at least short term relationships, flings, one night stands (and plenty of them, as it would seem), to me this still means that women like them.
I mean, even for a one night stand the people involved still have to like each other at least on the most basic of level, right?
So to me that argument does not hold up.
I think it's like the whole Activision and the PS3 servers, now I know what your thinking "wrong thread, dumbass!" but stay with me.
It's the vocal minority that complaining about there boyfriends and all the drama but the ones in happy relationships are not saying anything 'cos there enjoying them.
I have noticed women's tendancy to stay with jack asses though, like there getting the snot kicked out of them every night but stay with them for years. I know a girl who complained about her boyfriend disrespecting her and who never stops talking about WOW, now she claims she likes being disrespected "I like it when he calls me fat 'cos I know he is just being honest with me" (she isn't fat, she's curvy) and is having a kid with him!
I think if bad relationships ended (and stayed ended) quicker there would be less "they only go for the bad boys".
It's the vocal minority that complaining about there boyfriends and all the drama but the ones in happy relationships are not saying anything 'cos there enjoying them.
I have noticed women's tendancy to stay with jack asses though, like there getting the snot kicked out of them every night but stay with them for years. I know a girl who complained about her boyfriend disrespecting her and who never stops talking about WOW, now she claims she likes being disrespected "I like it when he calls me fat 'cos I know he is just being honest with me" (she isn't fat, she's curvy) and is having a kid with him!
I think if bad relationships ended (and stayed ended) quicker there would be less "they only go for the bad boys".
I hate to boil down a complex issue to a simplistic label, but:
Nice Guy Syndrome.
If the "nice guy" and the "jerk who is SO wrong for her" were to meet in different circumstances (no woman at stake) with no class, race or social barriers and started chatting it up, how many of them do you think would get along pretty well? Maybe the "nice guy" would find out that jock jerk is a pretty decent person.
Plus, the Internet is full of fake "nice guys." They're not nice-they're pushy, passive-aggressive jerks, many of whom are busily feeding their martyr complexes.
Sometimes I think all of humanity's problems stem from not watching "The Breakfast Club" enough times.
Nice Guy Syndrome.
If the "nice guy" and the "jerk who is SO wrong for her" were to meet in different circumstances (no woman at stake) with no class, race or social barriers and started chatting it up, how many of them do you think would get along pretty well? Maybe the "nice guy" would find out that jock jerk is a pretty decent person.
Plus, the Internet is full of fake "nice guys." They're not nice-they're pushy, passive-aggressive jerks, many of whom are busily feeding their martyr complexes.
Sometimes I think all of humanity's problems stem from not watching "The Breakfast Club" enough times.
Hahahaha that is one of the funniest things I've read on this site in quite a while, typo or not. I'm going to assume it wasn't, since based on the rest of the post you seem quite intelligent and literate. I agree almost completely with your entire post. You would be hard pressed to call me anything but a "nice guy", but I've been with my girlfriend for nearly three years (I'm a senior in high school, mind). Thanks again for the laughHiraeth said: