Do Americans have a right to carry?

[Agayek]

Well color me dazzled.

I knew the U.S's rate was high, but never knew it was that level of high in comparison to the rest of world.

So, in the UK, do they just rely mainly on the sheer number of police officers in an area to intimidate the potential attacks? And this works?

From what I've heard (I'm a work and lack the time to corroborate it atm), the UK has a lower homicide rate, but a significantly higher violent crime rate when compared to the USA.

Assuming that's true, their police are roughly as effective as ours are. The only difference is that their criminals are limited to knives and improvised weapons instead of firearms.

If I remember this when I get off work, I'll see if I can find figures to prove/disprove this.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Actually, as a petite female, I feel much safer knowing that there are guys openly carrying while in the city. If some creep is following me or harrassing me, and I am concerned for my safety, I know that if I stand next to the guy with a openly visable firearm, they are less likely to attack me. Though I do own my own firearm, I do not carry it with me, unless I am going somewhere to use it. I for one, appreciate the guys who go through the trouble to get a permit to carry.

 

[Reishadowen]

The public don't need guns, it encourages people to become hero's, which leads to people being killed over $50. People don't need guns, Americans seem to cling to guns like security blankets. There seems to be this paranoia that America will be invaded and every men, women and child will need to be armed in order to fend off the invaders.

Ok, I am going to take a wild guess that you are not American. America was founded in the fires of war with a very controlling monarchy. They wanted more taxes, we wanted freedom. We constantly had to worry about defending everything we had from a wide list of threats. English military, Indians (which, to some degree was our fault), wildlife, and thuggish raiders. You ever hear of the wild west? The only authority was made by those who had guns. If outlaws rode into your town, all carrying guns, and you couldn't defend yourself, you were at their mercy.

While in our current age, we seem to think that everyone is civilized, and will just make nice for the sake of it. This is simply not true. Some people in the world, even in our country, have very little, if any conscience. They will take something if they have the means to do it. This has been proven time and again throughout history. When Germany started their war machine in Europe, and kicked off WWII, do you think they did it believing they were the underdog? Or because they could pull it off? Not to pick on the Russians, but do you think the only reason they didn't invade us during the cold war was out of the kindness of their hearts, or a desire for peace? Or was it because if they tried it we'd both have craters in our cities, and we both knew it?

In short, some people are only deterred when there is a reasonable chance they could get their a$$ kicked if they started anything. That is what our right to carry is about. Think about it: If you are going to rob someone, would you prefer your target to be unarmed and helpless as possible, or would you really be willing to risk, "Oh, I can totally get this guy before he draws a gu-SHIIII*!!" Not everyone is a trained marksman/ninja in this country, despite what you may believe.

By making guns illegal your making guns harder to get hold off, so less gang members have them, police are safer 'cos there is less chance of them having a gun, there will be next to no school shootings (how many have there been in the USA? 10 or so?), less aremd robberies.

This is still bullcrap. Various drugs have been illegal for a long time, but people still get busted for having them every day. Somehow I doubt guns would be much different. Criminals have networks, and connections. They don't go to a store and buy them unless they are planning suicide after, or don't realize that guns and bullets can be traced back to them. Besides, even if a criminal can't get his hands on a gun, he will just use something else. A knife, a club, a couple buddies to outnumber someone, etc.

Yeah, you are making law abiding people helpless, thats how they should be. So people, who are trained and have protective equipment, can deal with it and not somebody who is going to escalate the situation wearing jeans and a T.

A robber comes across you on the street. He is already within a few feet of you. Calling the cops at this point would only help them in locating your corpse. Although the work police do is admirable(some exclusions apply), they won't be able to help you in your moment of need unless they just so happen to be in the exact area at the time. And if you are relying on those odds, you're a dead man more than not.

I just think it's a stupid idea to give loads of morons things that kill so easily.

You do realize that vehicles kill far more people every year than guns, right? Do you have any idea how easy it is to kill yourself of someone else with one of those?

Your never going to 100% get rid of guns but the less there is out there the safer I feel.

This is like Russia and the US saying, "Ok, you get rid of your nuclear weapons, then we'll get rid of ours."
"No, YOUR get rid of your nuclear weapons, then we'll get rid of ours!"

Neither side will stand down. Ever. Giving away our guns is tantamount to suicide because the other side has no wish to do likewise unless they are forced to do so.

.

Although to the point of this topic: in reflection, the guy did sound like he was trying to stir up something. For one thing, we walks around with a tape-recorder just in case such an event happens? Quite suspicious...

 

[Treblaine]

So, in the UK, do they just rely mainly on the sheer number of police officers in an area to intimidate the potential attacks? And this works?

More like run away at the first sight or sound of a gun and hope the armed-response-unit arrives in time.

The idea with armed response units like CO19 is they keep all the guns under lock and key until the very moment armed police are actually needed that is when they are called for.

Recently we had a shooting spree where a guy drove around drive-by shooting people with a single-shot shotgun. He actually drove past a police station on his rampage but he was not pursued by any of the police, after all he had a gun and they had nothing.

Armed response unit were so far behind the rampaging killer they didn't track him down till his body had gone cold, after he'd decided to kill himself in his own sweet time. Armed police were utterly useless that day.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Amazing how the police can damn near shoot you when you try to be the reasonable one.

Though you could argue about being reasonable by carrying a firearm at all times...

But I don't wanna bring up the old gun-crazy American stereotype again so please don't take it the wrong way.

We open carry for self defense, it is perfectly reasonable to want to keep yourself alive.

I really don't want to turn this into a debate into whether people need guns for self-defense, but come on. If your country had strict gun control there would be way less criminals with guns making the need to carry a firearm for self-defense non-existant. Just look at other western countries. Like say, Australia. Gun laws are very strict here, and because of this, we have way less crimes committed with firearms.

In short, take guns away from everyone (except for authorities, of course) and everyone is much safer.

In the current state of your country, I agree. Having a gun would be very useful for self-defense, but taking guns away from everyone is a much more elegant and safe solution.

I agree that in a perfect world we would not need to open carry. But the fact is that criminals simply dont care about the laws, if they did, they would not be criminals.

Do the laws that make marijuana illegal prevent anyone from smoking it? Yes, but most users dont care about those laws.

Oh I'm not arguing that having a massive crackdown on guns would eliminate armed crime. That's ridiculous. All I'm saying is that by making it incredibly difficult for anyone to get a gun from anywhere would drastically lower said crime. I will concede that this would be much more difficult in the US as opposed to here simply because of the differences of our borders, sure.

 

[omega 616]

Ok, I am going to take a wild guess that you are not American. America was founded in the fires of war with a very controlling monarchy. They wanted more taxes, we wanted freedom. We constantly had to worry about defending everything we had from a wide list of threats. English military, Indians (which, to some degree was our fault), wildlife, and thuggish raiders. You ever hear of the wild west? The only authority was made by those who had guns. If outlaws rode into your town, all carrying guns, and you couldn't defend yourself, you were at their mercy.

While in our current age, we seem to think that everyone is civilized, and will just make nice for the sake of it. This is simply not true. Some people in the world, even in our country, have very little, if any conscience. They will take something if they have the means to do it. This has been proven time and again throughout history. When Germany started their war machine in Europe, and kicked off WWII, do you think they did it believing they were the underdog? Or because they could pull it off? Not to pick on the Russians, but do you think the only reason they didn't invade us during the cold war was out of the kindness of their hearts, or a desire for peace? Or was it because if they tried it we'd both have craters in our cities, and we both knew it?

In short, some people are only deterred when there is a reasonable chance they could get their a$$ kicked if they started anything. That is what our right to carry is about. Think about it: If you are going to rob someone, would you prefer your target to be unarmed and helpless as possible, or would you really be willing to risk, "Oh, I can totally get this guy before he draws a gu-SHIIII*!!" Not everyone is a trained marksman/ninja in this country, despite what you may believe.

By making guns illegal your making guns harder to get hold off, so less gang members have them, police are safer 'cos there is less chance of them having a gun, there will be next to no school shootings (how many have there been in the USA? 10 or so?), less aremd robberies.

This is still bullcrap. Various drugs have been illegal for a long time, but people still get busted for having them every day. Somehow I doubt guns would be much different. Criminals have networks, and connections. They don't go to a store and buy them unless they are planning suicide after, or don't realize that guns and bullets can be traced back to them. Besides, even if a criminal can't get his hands on a gun, he will just use something else. A knife, a club, a couple buddies to outnumber someone, etc.

Yeah, you are making law abiding people helpless, thats how they should be. So people, who are trained and have protective equipment, can deal with it and not somebody who is going to escalate the situation wearing jeans and a T.

A robber comes across you on the street. He is already within a few feet of you. Calling the cops at this point would only help them in locating your corpse. Although the work police do is admirable(some exclusions apply), they won't be able to help you in your moment of need unless they just so happen to be in the exact area at the time. And if you are relying on those odds, you're a dead man more than not.

I just think it's a stupid idea to give loads of morons things that kill so easily.

You do realize that vehicles kill far more people every year than guns, right? Do you have any idea how easy it is to kill yourself of someone else with one of those?

Your never going to 100% get rid of guns but the less there is out there the safer I feel.

This is like Russia and the US saying, "Ok, you get rid of your nuclear weapons, then we'll get rid of ours."
"No, YOUR get rid of your nuclear weapons, then we'll get rid of ours!"

Neither side will stand down. Ever. Giving away our guns is tantamount to suicide because the other side has no wish to do likewise unless they are forced to do so.

Although to the point of this topic: in reflection, the guy did sound like he was trying to stir up something. For one thing, we walks around with a tape-recorder just in case such an event happens? Quite suspicious...

I have a feeling this is going to be one of those things were we go on for a week ...

News flash, your not at war. Your in a war, about 10,000 miles away.

Your right that we are not a civilised race, despite our best attempts to be.

What is the price of human life to you? If it is less than what you carry in your wallet, your a psycho 'cos if your carrying more than $100 your an idiot and a human life is worth more than $100. (lets not get into things like "hitlers life was worth less than that)

Just let them have the cash, not a lot of bad guys are after killing you, they just want money to get there fix/get by. Of course there is better ways to get money but obviously they chose this.

I know the feeling of "it's mine and you can't have it/want it back" but seriously think about it, your killing over pocket change, a phone and maybe an ipod. While he may not be the best person he is still a person, the famous fight club comes to mind "the things you own end up owning you" it's just stuff at the end of the day.

As other people have said, how quickly can you draw, swtich the saftey off, aim, fire? A damn site slower than a criminal can knock you out, rob you then run off.

"Not everybody is a trained shooter" so Instead of shooting the guy who just stole $20 off you, you shoot the old lady carrying her shopping.

Why do you think people are out to murder every person in sight? Most murders are down to people who knew you, so you should fear your family and friends over the next person you see in the street.

Of course I know all that about drugs being easy to get hold off, I work with 23 other weed users. What I am saying is, it would be easier to get drugs if it were legal to do so. It's obvious that smuggling a kilo of weed is alot more risky than trading a tonne of apples.

The difference between a knife and a gun? A gun you can kill at just about any range (I know your not going to be sat on a roof with a hand gun aiming at people), a knife or anything else you have to get close and most people don't have the balls to do that. A gun is removing you from the scene by a fair distance but pushing a blade into somebody takes a differnt kind of psycho.

Cars made to move people around quickly, guns are designed to kill. The only reason to carry one is for the intention to go too far and raise the situation to a level it doesn't need to go to.

It just beings us back to the civilised thing, people like these big saftey nets but if one person launches a missile it will do fuck all.

Do you think every country with WMD's doesn't have counter missiles to them? Of course it will cover the earth with nuclear fallout for decades (just look at chernobyl) but it's better than a death toll of 7 billion.

Like it said in lord of war, it's all about who has the bigger stick and since everybody has trees for sticks they will never be used.

On a smaller scale, if people just learned to accept they might get robbed and if they did it wouldn't be the end of the world America would be alot safer and have a lower death toll. Due to less people wanting to be hero's and just let that couple of bucks go.

 

[Reishadowen]

News flash, your not at war. Your in a war, about 10,000 miles away.

So conflict is too far away that it can't affect us? First off, we have drug smugglers trying to secure routes from Mexico into the US, and they are using lethal force and killing people on the border who try to stop them. Second, we currently have certain people taking their religion way too far and using it as a justification to slaughter everyone that isn't like them. I think we currently call them "Terrorists". Have you forgotten Fort Hood? The attempted Christmas bomber? The attempted Times Square bomber? These people are still trying to kill us too. Though I must admit, the terrorists would do it by suicide bombing, probably not engaging in gunfights. Still, we are not so distant from violent struggles that we can ignore them, and pretend that we are somehow immune, or it doesn't affect us.

What is the price of human life to you? If it is less than what you carry in your wallet, your a psycho 'cos if your carrying more than $100 your an idiot and a human life is worth more than $100. (lets not get into things like "hitlers life was worth less than that)

Just let them have the cash, not a lot of bad guys are after killing you, they just want money to get there fix/get by. Of course there is better ways to get money but obviously they chose this.

I know the feeling of "it's mine and you can't have it/want it back" but seriously think about it, your killing over pocket change, a phone and maybe an ipod. While he may not be the best person he is still a person, the famous fight club comes to mind "the things you own end up owning you" it's just stuff at the end of the day.

If people know they can get away with robbing you once, and there is nothing you can do about it, they are going to do it again, and again, as there is nothing stopping them. Mugging people is not just a "I need money to get by until I can get honest work". It is like an addiction. Why work your a$$ off to make five bucks an hour when you can just rob people for for a week's worth of pay in one hour, then get away scott-free?

As other people have said, how quickly can you draw, swtich the saftey off, aim, fire? A damn site slower than a criminal can knock you out, rob you then run off.

Ok, first off, if you are going to knock someone out, then rob them, you don't need a gun to do that. A nice, sizable rock, or even a beefy fist will do. What you would also need is for the target to be stupid enough to walk into a situation where you could actually knock them out without being detected, riffle through their pockets, then leave the area without someone else seeing you and deciding to take justice into their own hands.

Second, guns alone don't make people safe. Knowing how to use them, and utilizing common sense will make that 9mm deterrence actually worth something instead of "Eh, I don't need to be careful, I've got a gun!"

"Not everybody is a trained shooter" so Instead of shooting the guy who just stole $20 off you, you shoot the old lady carrying her shopping.

....wtf? Ok, what part of the conversation did I miss? Seriously, where does this even come from?

The difference between a knife and a gun? A gun you can kill at just about any range (I know your not going to be sat on a roof with a hand gun aiming at people), a knife or anything else you have to get close and most people don't have the balls to do that. A gun is removing you from the scene by a fair distance but pushing a blade into somebody takes a differnt kind of psycho.

To be fair, knives don't jam, misfire, or require reloading either. But really, my point was, is that if a determined person wants to mug you with a weapon, they will find something deadly and mug you with it. Therefore, simply removing from them ONE of their tools for doing it (guns) will not do so much to stop them. They are still using weapons of deadly capability, and if the victim has nothing but their bare hands, they are completely helpless as a whole, unless they happen to be a karate master or something.

The point is "Deterrence: fighting fire with fire" Most people would be less likely to attack if they thought they might get their a$$ kicked. I mentioned this before, and I still stand by it. If you want to argue that being a mugger makes you an instant bada$$, crack shot, capable of ninja-like feats, or the like, I'm not going to ruin your little fantasy.


Also, a little side-note, did you really have to quote the entire post without trimming it down? Nitpicking, I know, but still...

 

[Sejs Cube]

There are some magic words for these kinds of situations that cut through all the hassle. Granted, it takes some more time and effort than a normal concealed carry license, but it's entirely worth pursuing it if you intend to open carry.

"I am a licensed bail bondsman. I have a copy of my documents on me. Would you like to see them, officer?"

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

Their job is not to understand the law, only to enforce it.

 

[Hitokiri_Gensai]

damn straight we have the right to carry! i open carry a Glock 19 every single day. Its at my side all the time, if not carried open on my hip, its in my purse. The consitution grants us the right to own weapons, and you know what, we own weapons to defend ourselves, and what good does it do to have a gun in your safe at home, when you get mugged on the street corner walking home?

more well thought out arguement is simply. Carrying a weapon is a right of defending ourselves. Not the right to own a weapon, not the right to shoot people, its the right to defend our lives against anyone who might threaten it. A police officer's job is to "Serve and Protect" but they're not always there, and if something happens, what will you do?

I was at a gas station one night, just buying some drinks and snacks on my way home from a friends house. I was deciding what to get when a bunch of guys walked into the store. They were wearing baggy clothes and they kept eyeing the clerk while wandering around the store. Finally one of them walked up to the clerk and pulled out a kitchen and knife and told him to give him all the money he had. The other put his hand in his jacket and said "you better, i got a gun". I wasnt sure what he had, but i drew my gun and i told him to drop whatever weapon he had and that the other kid should put his knife on the counter. Thankfully they both did, and the clerk pulled a shotgun from under the counter. It was well after midnight, sometime around 3 i think, and there wasnt a cop in sight, you think calling the cops would have done anything? I was able to level the playing field and keep a robbery from happening, and who knows, they might have killed the clerk. Point is, carry is the right of defense. The right to defend yourself, and those around you who might need it.

I believe that gun laws should exist, but how much they limit us is something to be decided on in the future. Gun bans arent going to take guns off the streets, they're only going to take guns out of the hands of good, honest citizens. You think criminals get guns legally? no, they dont, and they will continue to get them illegally.

 

[loc978]

Well, this was answered in the first page with the wikipedia entry on open carry in the US, essentially putting this to rest as "officer didn't know the law" /thread...
But for me, it comes down to common sense. I live in a traditionally open-carry friendly state where some of the larger cities have bans on loaded firearms in public... but I don't carry openly anywhere that's even a little bit metropolitan or suburban. I know most people in those places have little to no experience with or knowledge of firearms, and so they sometimes panic when they see one worn by other than a uniformed officer (which is funny, because I am one... but that's not apparent when I'm off duty).
In essence... I don't want to cause a panic, so I got a license, and I carry concealed.

 

[JourneyMan88]

I live in Philadelphia and have had a carry-conceal license for over 10 years. In Philadelphia, the only way a citizen is allowed to carry is with a carry-conceal license. They are ABUNDANTLY clear to you throughout the process that a carry-CONCEAL license is just that, if you carry, you MUST conceal. It is illegal to open carry as well as carry without a license in the City of Philadelphia. There is a 2 step process where you are first interviewed when you hand in your information including 2 references (not family) and your $20 payment. After they cross reference your information with the FBI they send you a card to come back to be fingerprinted and photographed for you license.
After going over the rules with you twice, in person, they hand you 2 pages of the laws concerning a license to carry in Philadelphia, they are again mailed to you after you receive your license. Had he payed any attention what so ever during the process to get his license, he would have known that a citizen can NOT open carry in Philadelphia.
The last item on the form letter sent by the police commissioner's office reads verbatim:
"IMPORTANT: When in contact with a law enforcement officer, follow all instructions given. Police officers...may encounter you on the street...You should not make any sudden moves. You should inform the officer, as soon as possible, that you are armed and possess a valid permit to carry. Then follow the officer's instructions explicitly."
This guy is a tool who broke the law, plain and simple. If he has a carry-conceal license in Philadelphia, he was informed on several occasions that Philadelphia is not an open carry city. He will have his license revoked for 2 simple reasons, he broke the open-carry law, and did not listen to the officer.

 

[omega 616]

Also, a little side-note, did you really have to quote the entire post without trimming it down? Nitpicking, I know, but still...

Your going to shoot a guy strapped with explosives are you? Your going to see the bomb, potentially through his clothes, then without even flinching draw a gun, take the safety off and shoot him? Not going to happen. Even if the guy does the big hollywood(land) reveal of the bomb, most people are going to be in such shock they wont even think about grabbing there gun.

Why are civvies trying to enforce the law? Leave that to the poeple who get paid to do it, if poeple want to risk there lives trying to stop drug smugglers then let them, maybe if they didn't have a gun they wouldn't feel like such a big man.

I didn't forget about those things, I never heard of them ...

Who said you needed a gun to knock somebody out? The point is you can have a gun but your still not protected, anybody can come up behind you punch/hit you with a bar and your out, they can even take your shit without you even knowing it.

You do realize you put yourself in dangerous situations all the time, the only reason you don't think you are is 'cos it's never happened to you. Your walking along with your headphones in, you have no idea who is behind you ... unless you start walking down the street like the SAS clearing a house.

What a load of crap, people think a gun makes them the worlds hardest. They have no idea how to hold it or aim with it but it makes them feel like king kong, which is just what you need in Mexican stand off.

It came from your point that not everybody is a trained shooter, I just switched it around to make the point that while you might be aiming for the guy who just robbed you, you hit some innocent person. Your going to be angry, which means your not focused and more likely to miss.

This is coming from somebody who has never even held a gun but it makes sense. Hell, even in a game you play awful when your raging.

If somebody wants to kill you they will, you having a gun doesn't make you some how immune to death. So why bother arrying one? Very few people in the UK have a gun (your either well connected or a farmer)and surprisingly were not all getting mugged and our houses robbed to a point were we just leaves our doors open.

I have no idea where America gets this idea that they need a gun not to be fucked with but it's not true.

How do you use a gun? You keep saying getting your ass kicked but nobody kicks ass with a gun, they make swiss cheese out of it. Unless you just want to pistol whip the guy, which extremely dangerous, I have seen it smash a mans skull open.

It doesn't make you a bad ass, same as holding a gun. Unless you walk round like an a guy clearing a house, you are always vulnerable to attack, they don't attack head on or run at you with a big sign saying "Iz guna haz yo shit!".

If somebody comes up behind, press the point of a flick knife into your back and reaches into your pocket, takes your wallet, pushes you over and runs off, what are you going to do? Some Steven Segal shit, spin around, grab the knife, simutaniously pull your gun and shoot him/pistol whip him? Maybe lay on the floor take pot shots/one accurate shot to kill him/stop him running by hitting a leg ... which would probably result in death anyway.

If your going to quote somebody like you do, make sure to press enter twice after the [ /quote ] bit, so I can see where my bit ends and your starts.

 

[Reishadowen]

As for having guns though I reckon if the US was more lax on guns there would be a bit less crime. I don't see why assault rifles are necessary though but I suppose as long as they hard to obtain they could be useful, I've heard stories of more than one person going into a house then the person uses an assault rifle as defense (European countries)

To be fair, unless you are part of the police, or military, I personally don't see why someone should be allowed to possess a functional & loaded automatic rifle. There's self defense, then there's overdoing it. Of course from the stories I hear about the Mexican border, maybe some of those farmers and people who live down there probably do need something better than pistols, I guess...

Your going to shoot a guy strapped with explosives are you? Your going to see the bomb, potentially through his clothes, then without even flinching draw a gun, take the safety off and shoot him? Not going to happen. Even if the guy does the big hollywood(land) reveal of the bomb, most people are going to be in such shock they wont even think about grabbing there gun.

To be honest, I'm kinda getting tired of going over this, so this will be my last reply to you, take it as you will. (as for the formatting my quotes, the extra lines from pressing "enter" are automatically removed by the forum whenever I post. Sorry.)

If I remember correctly, the Christmas day bomber was foiled because the people(civilians) around him on the plane mobbed & stopped him. (if not, someone politely correct me) It isn't about just having a gun, it's about taking the "everyman" and enabling them to stand up and defend themselves and their land. (training with said weapon is ALWAYS preferred though...) True, it is the job of the police, and the government to stop terrorists and criminals, but monitoring 250 million+ people in this country alone is not easy.

If somebody wants to kill you they will, you having a gun doesn't make you some how immune to death. So why bother arrying one?

Why are civvies trying to enforce the law? Leave that to the poeple who get paid to do it, if poeple want to risk there lives trying to stop drug smugglers then let them, maybe if they didn't have a gun they wouldn't feel like such a big man.

That's just the thing: They have guns already! Ergo, us not having guns to deter them and defend ourselves takes us from "a chance we can actually defend ourselves" down to "We are completely f***ed if someone points a gun at us, 100% of the time."

I don't mean to make it sound like the police force is inept and unimportant, but I would call them overwhelmed at times.

It came from your point that not everybody is a trained shooter, I just switched it around to make the point that while you might be aiming for the guy who just robbed you, you hit some innocent person. Your going to be angry, which means your not focused and more likely to miss.

So you instantly assumed everyone would be a gun-toting lunatic, blasting their .45 revenge at everything in their path, destroying a whole street corner in the process, just to get their luxury i-pods and Rolex watches back? I think you watch way too many action movies.

I have no idea where America gets this idea that they need a gun not to be fucked with but it's not true.

*grinds teeth* That's probably because you haven't been paying attention to what I've been telling you. Go back and look at my first response to you.

How do you use a gun? You keep saying getting your ass kicked but nobody kicks ass with a gun, they make swiss cheese out of it. Unless you just want to pistol whip the guy, which extremely dangerous, I have seen it smash a mans skull open.

*groan* Really? Really now? You've resorted to coming back with crap like this? I've had enough. Good day.

 

[omega 616]

*grinds teeth* That's probably because you haven't been paying attention to what I've been telling you. Go back and look at my first response to you.

*groan* Really? Really now? You've resorted to coming back with crap like this? I've had enough. Good day.

you mean people stopped a terrorist without using a gun? Well would you look at that, you can do it.

Do you think people are out for you life or out for money? You are not fucked 100% of the time, you have just been robbed and survived 100% of the time. Guns just make poeple jittery and less likely to do something they don't want to do, they want cash not your life. They have nothing to gain from killing you, so why would they (unless you pissed them off, like beating there sister up)?

Do you think robbers think "if they didn't have a gun I would have killed them"? No, they just want wants in your pockets.

Did I say that people will just start blasting away with there eyes closed? No, I said you will probably miss.

These last two are prime examples of what you have been saying all along, nothing. No counter arguments, you have yet to explain what you would do if somebody with a flick knife robs you and pushes you over.

From all the media and these responses it sounds like America is one paranoid place to live.

 

[littlewisp]

I like guns as while I'm camping out in the wilderness where bear sitings are very common, it is a nice little safety net that I can keep near in the event a bear is attracted to the campsite.

Or, well, any predators. Occasionally wolves do travel into the more suburban areas when moose are scarce, and go after pets (even less occasionally, people).

Also, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Z_2oU9B2o

As for urban situations, it seems . . . 50-50 depending on the situation. I don't know, really, I wouldn't live in a large city personally.