Do animals think in the noises they make?
- Thread starter Pinkamena
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I don't know about you fine folks and your animals, but whenever noises arise from my rectal region...and I have a shit eating grin on my face...
It means "run".
Also:
It means "run".
Also:
This is why Pokemon are awesome.Vegan_Doodler said:Pokemon do
You don't need to create words in your head for things in order to think bout them. In fact I rarely do that unless I'm having some sort of mental conversation with myself. Having mental terminology only helps with highly abstract thought?
For example, take this
I don't know what it is, I have no words for it, but I can still think about it and imagine what I could physically do with it.
For example, take this
I don't know what it is, I have no words for it, but I can still think about it and imagine what I could physically do with it.
I think the very fact that certain sounds are used in certain situations (cats only hiss when they're hostile, dogs only growl when they're hostile, cats only purr when they are content, etc) means that for at least some sounds, there is some sort of logic going on. I don't think it's ever been recorded that a cat purred when it wasn't happy. If purring wasn't reserved for only that occasion, then when hostile it would switch between purring and hissing.Pinkamena said:
I think blind people are perfectly capable of understanding dimension and volume. If you feel something like a can of soup, you can feel and understand its shape. Even if you've never seen a cylinder before, by feeling it you can understand that it's rounded and flat on two ends. You don't need sight to visualize something, only sensory-memory. Of course they won't have a handle on its color or any visual signifiers of what it is, but they can certainly discern volume, shape, weight, and texture through feeling something. And since they can walk and stand up perfectly fine by themselves, I think it's safe to say they know the difference between up and down and left and right.Meatspinner said:
Or to put it another way, if blind people were totally incapable of understanding something's shape and dimensions only by feel, then their walking sticks would be totally useless.
I think some dogs can at least use different woofs, barks and growls for different meanings. But I don't think they have the same thought processes as us. For instance:
Dog is hungry. Dog finds nearest human. Dog barks at human until it receives food or a newspaper to the face.
Does not equate to:
Dog considers when it last ate, determines that some food would be pretty good right now. Dog finds a local human to enquire about booking a bowl, communications break down. Dog speaks slowly and loudly at the human to convey the desire for foods.
As for dreams I have no idea. Considering how much my dog slept I sincerely hope he had some kick ass dreams. I like to think they are similar to human dreams just with considerable dogginess. Since smell is a big part of dog culture I'd assume that smells are present, whilst I have never (or at least don't remember having) had smells in my own dreams.
Dog is hungry. Dog finds nearest human. Dog barks at human until it receives food or a newspaper to the face.
Does not equate to:
Dog considers when it last ate, determines that some food would be pretty good right now. Dog finds a local human to enquire about booking a bowl, communications break down. Dog speaks slowly and loudly at the human to convey the desire for foods.
As for dreams I have no idea. Considering how much my dog slept I sincerely hope he had some kick ass dreams. I like to think they are similar to human dreams just with considerable dogginess. Since smell is a big part of dog culture I'd assume that smells are present, whilst I have never (or at least don't remember having) had smells in my own dreams.
I'd feel pretty sorry for this sheep then, if that were the case.
[small] I laugh nearly every time.[/small]
[small] I laugh nearly every time.[/small]
I trust the works of Stanley Coren as well. Those words were written by an expert about dog intelligence and behaviour, just because they were on wikipedia doesn't mean they're less true. You can check the source for yourself.Johnny Novgorod said:
And again, how would they have object permanence if they can't think about the world around them? Surely to know something exists and they can't sense it means they have to be thinking about it. Object permanence in dogs is proven, and for that there needs to be at least some ideas going on inside their brains. How else would they understand that something exists which they can't sense?
Going on interactive experience and observations of live animals, I'd be more inclined to subscribe to the visual theory. Even a dog that was raised with no contact to other dogs will growl when faced with something scary, odd or intimidating, much as a happy or aroused cat is bound to purr and roflcopter all over the floor. There is no such thing as proper 'language', just aural signals that are closer to simplified icons than language.
If you're lucky enough to witness a sleeping dog dream, it mostly seems to center on running and eating, in whatever context happens to happen in that sweet little brain. Depending on the individual dog being observed, that might or might not involve more vocal ways of handling life, reality and the experiences you throw at your dog.
An isolated dog will not make much noise. All noises it makes are made with the intent of communication with other dogs or, which is rather amazing, humans. That's a perk that allows dogs to do jobs like herding, guarding or otherwise try and influence other creatures, no matter the species.
Maybe you are lucky enough to witness a dog herding sheep or, more impressive, angry cows and bulls. A dog with a job that takes its job seriously will use noise to make a point, but that tends to be a last resort or a sign of failure - it's really all about spatial awareness and achieving more or less total control over the dance of trigger-response behaviour. Every move of a troublesome cattle individual will trigger a motion response by the dog. As soon as the dog first gets the general idea of how things work, the cattle just won't stand a chance in the brainpower department. A cow is bound to judge your size at more or less two-dimensional face value, a dog will not fall for such tricks and be more WTF? about it.
Our last dog was a Rott that was very vocal when around humans. Absolutely silent when in herding or hunting mode, as his physical presence just did the trick, no matter if it was sheep, geese or Angus cattle. As a baby, he'd want to bark a lot, and it took just a couple of weeks to lovingly shush him to make him understand that indoor barking is frowned upon. He developed a silent bark that worked like a charm and confused the hell out of people that haven't seen that before. He still barked, going through all the motions, but not using his lovely baritone voice. He only got loud to shut up other dogs that would not otherwise shut up. Everyone was cool with that.
If you're lucky enough to witness a sleeping dog dream, it mostly seems to center on running and eating, in whatever context happens to happen in that sweet little brain. Depending on the individual dog being observed, that might or might not involve more vocal ways of handling life, reality and the experiences you throw at your dog.
An isolated dog will not make much noise. All noises it makes are made with the intent of communication with other dogs or, which is rather amazing, humans. That's a perk that allows dogs to do jobs like herding, guarding or otherwise try and influence other creatures, no matter the species.
Maybe you are lucky enough to witness a dog herding sheep or, more impressive, angry cows and bulls. A dog with a job that takes its job seriously will use noise to make a point, but that tends to be a last resort or a sign of failure - it's really all about spatial awareness and achieving more or less total control over the dance of trigger-response behaviour. Every move of a troublesome cattle individual will trigger a motion response by the dog. As soon as the dog first gets the general idea of how things work, the cattle just won't stand a chance in the brainpower department. A cow is bound to judge your size at more or less two-dimensional face value, a dog will not fall for such tricks and be more WTF? about it.
Our last dog was a Rott that was very vocal when around humans. Absolutely silent when in herding or hunting mode, as his physical presence just did the trick, no matter if it was sheep, geese or Angus cattle. As a baby, he'd want to bark a lot, and it took just a couple of weeks to lovingly shush him to make him understand that indoor barking is frowned upon. He developed a silent bark that worked like a charm and confused the hell out of people that haven't seen that before. He still barked, going through all the motions, but not using his lovely baritone voice. He only got loud to shut up other dogs that would not otherwise shut up. Everyone was cool with that.
It's bound to happen.NightmareExpress said:
Just look at how many a dog will absolutely willfully misunderstand any human utterings it hears when it's anywhere near the commands or words it picked up along the way.
If you keep calling your dog 'good boy!' while petting and pleasing him, anything uttered out of context that sounds similar, in whatever language, might trigger a 'happy' response or a pretty confused dog, depending on the individual.
If there's a command that goes 'sit!', the dog is bound to also respond to the friendly Japanese guy going 'shit!' on your dog or the actual expletive being shouted when you whack your finger with a hammer. There are some dogs that respond to over a hundred different 'commands' or 'names' of things and actions - and the average dog really is intent on pleasing its owner/handler/human friend.
In a proper human-dog relationship, you are the absolute center of the universe to your furry friend.
Experiments with Octopuses (Octopi? Octopodes?) showed that they're able to solve difficult problems, they're aware of surrounding space and communicating using changing colors. For example, there's an experiment with an Octopus in a box wich only has one exit. The size of the exit can be altered by the scientists and the Ocotopus didn't even try to leave the box when the exit's size was to small for it. It just groped around the exit, measured that it wouldn't fit through and gave up on escaping, while it immediately left when the exit was made big enough.
Also, there's the classic "Octopus opening jar" experiment and several other signs of intelligence and communications. Luckily, they don't teach their cubs anything they've learned in their life, like other animals do. Otherwise, we'd probably obey our tentacled masters by now.
I don't think they really think in a manner as we do, but there's definetly a lot going on in their heads. So, I think to say that animals generall aren't capable of having ideas and thoughts is very much walking on thin ice.
Oh, and many animals, including dogs dream when sleeping. So they're surely capable of picturing things that are not around, which at least backs the thesis of visual thinking the first poster made up.
Also, that sheep seriously cracked me up.
Also, there's the classic "Octopus opening jar" experiment and several other signs of intelligence and communications. Luckily, they don't teach their cubs anything they've learned in their life, like other animals do. Otherwise, we'd probably obey our tentacled masters by now.
I don't think they really think in a manner as we do, but there's definetly a lot going on in their heads. So, I think to say that animals generall aren't capable of having ideas and thoughts is very much walking on thin ice.
Oh, and many animals, including dogs dream when sleeping. So they're surely capable of picturing things that are not around, which at least backs the thesis of visual thinking the first poster made up.
Also, that sheep seriously cracked me up.
As point of fact, cats do purr when they are extremely nervous or sometimes in pain. The predominent explanation for this is that they are trying to induce a relaxed state, which is what we normally associate with purring.Lilani said:
It's sort of like us taking long deep breaths when we are scared in an attempt to lower our heart rate.
There is actually a lot of research done on language acquisition/development in humans and comparisons between us and other animals.
If people are interested I suggest starting with Steven Pinker's classic book "The Language Instinct" and going from there. It outlines a lot of the initial research into how human language works and what it says about our brains.
If people are interested I suggest starting with Steven Pinker's classic book "The Language Instinct" and going from there. It outlines a lot of the initial research into how human language works and what it says about our brains.