Do bronies challenge traditional masculine values?
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I'm honestly surprised so many people are saying no. I was just going to post "Yeah, of course they do. We already know this and have had this discussion before. Why does this thread need to exist?", but after seeing everyone's responses... well, maybe I'm wrong and this thread does need to exist.
As for the topic, we bronies definitely do. Anyone outside the interwebz who first learns that a male likes MLP often immediately gets shunned or at least loses some respect from family and / or peers for liking something perceived as "girly". The whole "dude-bro" stereotype does indeed exist and it is expected on a cultural level that people fit into their perceived gender roles in any society, so having people do something that contrasts it so heavily like guys liking a show for little girls or ladies enjoying video games designed for males does indeed challenge traditional values.
However, we live in an age where traditional values are being challenged left and right. Bronies may be a bit more unusual than most other things that challenge these values, but they're just one factor out of many that's creating this slow-but-steady cultural shift. In terms of how big of an impact bronies actually have on traditional values, they're far behind the LGBT-rights movement and the rise of secularism / atheism.
In other words, don't get a big head about it if you're a brony. Yes, our existence does have a notable impact on perceived gender roles. However, it's probably not nearly as much as you might think.
As for the topic, we bronies definitely do. Anyone outside the interwebz who first learns that a male likes MLP often immediately gets shunned or at least loses some respect from family and / or peers for liking something perceived as "girly". The whole "dude-bro" stereotype does indeed exist and it is expected on a cultural level that people fit into their perceived gender roles in any society, so having people do something that contrasts it so heavily like guys liking a show for little girls or ladies enjoying video games designed for males does indeed challenge traditional values.
However, we live in an age where traditional values are being challenged left and right. Bronies may be a bit more unusual than most other things that challenge these values, but they're just one factor out of many that's creating this slow-but-steady cultural shift. In terms of how big of an impact bronies actually have on traditional values, they're far behind the LGBT-rights movement and the rise of secularism / atheism.
In other words, don't get a big head about it if you're a brony. Yes, our existence does have a notable impact on perceived gender roles. However, it's probably not nearly as much as you might think.
- Apr 1, 2009
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Powerpuff Girls was started as a short called 'Whoopass Stew!' its target audience always seemed to me to be teenagers and college students. I don't think bronies challenge masculine views as much as the pun-dents like to claim but they sure as hell challenge the notion that tv shows aimed at girls have to suck.Susan Arendt said:
Allow me to explain, from a guys perspective it seems like there are essentially three kinds of shows for females. Ones aimed at kids, which will feature cartoon characters who are usually either barbie type girls or some variation of show that is exclusively tea parties. Ones aimed at teens which will almost always be some from of high school drama thing. Finally ones aimed at adults which consist of older women talking about fucking the fireman, shows such as sex in the city and any variation of real house wives. Obviously I haven't watched said shows, this is just an outsiders perspective. Anyway then comes something like MLP that is aimed at girls but also good? Mind = blown... Oh, a shiny object...
Where was I... oh yeah, and that is why, oh look, 'Papo and Yo' is up for preorder on steam, Imma go do that.
Challenging masculine value would imply that I recognize certain values as "masculine." Masculine and feminine are made-up concepts that exist only in society, not in any *actual* sense. So I'm not challenging masculine values as much as I am recognizing that there are no such things as "masculine values."
Yes, God forbid someone purchase merchandise related to media they enjoy. Do you own any t-shirts, posters, or anything else depicting bands, films, TV shows, games, or any other form of art or entertainment you enjoy? If you do, you're a hypocrite.MichiganMuscle77 said:
Speaking as a fan: Eh, I don't think so.
I'd imagine it re-defines the show more than it defines masculinity. It turns the show from a cartoon for little girls into a family-friendly program that anybody can enjoy, if they're willing to drop their preconceptions of the show. That's how Faust usually makes her shows, she doesn't like to target ONE audience, she likes to draw in as many people as possible.
Anyway.
I know a lot of people on the internet don't agree with this sentiment but personally, watching a tv show doesn't change who you are in my eyes. Granted, I have A LOT more to bond over if we share this interest, what with the show having a good number of episodes and the immeasurably IMMENSE amount of fan work to talk about. But that's just bonding over a common interest, I personally don't think we're pioneers of social change.
I'd imagine it re-defines the show more than it defines masculinity. It turns the show from a cartoon for little girls into a family-friendly program that anybody can enjoy, if they're willing to drop their preconceptions of the show. That's how Faust usually makes her shows, she doesn't like to target ONE audience, she likes to draw in as many people as possible.
Anyway.
I know a lot of people on the internet don't agree with this sentiment but personally, watching a tv show doesn't change who you are in my eyes. Granted, I have A LOT more to bond over if we share this interest, what with the show having a good number of episodes and the immeasurably IMMENSE amount of fan work to talk about. But that's just bonding over a common interest, I personally don't think we're pioneers of social change.
I've watched some and enough. What in the hell is everybody raving about, people? Sesame Fucking Street already taught me about friendship. Yes, having friends is cool! "Oh and look, you shouldn't judge people immediately, there's always more than meets the eye". How innovative. This is Rugrats 101 for crying out loud. What're we acting like we discovered fire all over with this show? And don't tell me it's the animation. They use the same kind of crap Flash animation you see in any pop up ad.FireAza said:
No, it does not. Not in the slightest. In order to do that the average 'Brony' would need to already be identified as masculine but, by their nature, they are not. Bronies are generally not masculine men, in not being masculine men how can they "challenge" how masculinity is perceived?V da Mighty Taco said:
I used to think the same thing, until I watched Dan Vs and Sonic Rainboom. At first it felt off, like something wasn't there. Then I started to look more closely at the smaller bits. I have a whole new appreciation for the show now, as I'm now starting to see how with almost every single movement there's a lot going on. When someone raises their head in Dan Vs, their neck lengthens and their head goes up. When someone does in FiM you see the subtleties of the rest of their body moving with their head, which give a more organic and natural feel.Johnny Novgorod said:
Another good example is to watch old Garry's Mod shorts and then Source Filmmaker shorts. There are a lot of small things that make SFM look a lot better.
Um, what? What do you mean by "by their nature, they are not (masculine)"? Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems like you're implying that most male bronies are not viewed as fairly normal males before they became a brony, which is flat-out not true and is incredibly prejudiced. As I said before, male bronies typically get shunned or at least lose a lot of respect from family and / or peers once the news gets out that they like a little girl's show, primarily because it's seen as something a grown man in particular should not do. This doesn't really apply to female bronies to anywhere near the same degree, as them liking a little girl's show is viewed as far more acceptable. Hence, males liking the show defies what is seen as specifically acceptable for males to do and by definition challenges the established gender roles. Can you tell me where my argument falls apart here?Abomination said:
I actually agree with you on the whole "it teaches you good lessons about friendship!" thing, because obviously anyone should already know this stuff. However, that's not why I like the show, my primary reasons are the humor and the animation. Yes, the animation. While it is made with Flash, as with anything else, it's not the tools that makes something good, it's what you do with them. In the case of MLP, it has a stylish art style and quite detailed and fluid animation for something made in Flash.Johnny Novgorod said:
Yes because male bronies are not known for being terribly masculine - and it has nothing to do with how they like My Little Pony or not, it is the other factors. Factors like joining some pseudo-club on the internet, discussing a cartoon with fanatical devotion on the internet; the average and stereotypical brony (ignoring their appreciation for a cartoon aimed at girls) does not conjure the image of a masculine male.V da Mighty Taco said:
That being said, a masculine male who does call himself a brony would challenge traditional masculine values as an individual. As a group bronys do not due to the average representative of said group not being particularly masculine.
Oh, hey. Someone wins a cookie.wizzy555 said:
...I'd give you a cookie, but there's this whole thing about physical distance and the downsides to mailing food... oh, and the fact I'm kind of lazy. Tell you what: When you eat your next cookie, think of that guy on the internet who agreed with you.
There's effectivly no way that Bronies as a whole would singlehandedly topple any and all stereotypes about masculinity in the eyes of the public. But the word is challenge, not change. Make sure you never confuse the two.
As far as any particular challenge goes, we're challenging it all right. It's a laughable challenge to be sure, but we're not exactly a political rights group. Our primary objective is not to achieve this change, so we don't actually apply any pressure to it. That's not what we want to do.
The very fact we exist at all is what applies the challenge. It isn't just the odd freak; that statistical outlier who proves the rule because you can point and say "normal people aren't like him".
We exist in consistent numbers. And some of us are actually normal dudes who happen to like the ponies. That's the point and the whole of the point: barring the topic at hand there is nothing to differentiate us from the rest of the population.
If we are not an insignificant statistical deviance, then we are officially evidence to the contrary. Small evidence, yes.
We're not the largest of fanbases. We may not change the stereotypes, nor do we even care enough to try, but the point is: we're there.
And if there is but one person in society who has previously accepted the stereotype separating "pretty pastel ponies" from "masculinity", who has changed their mind about this upon meeting a brony, then you can say it has been challenged.
Oh, and by the way: it's been challenged.
OP, you're right! Our perception of masculine and feminine ideals changes every few decades. I myself consider MLP the best thing that a man can enjoy.
When there are ton of pictures and a few videos of male fans cumming on MLP toys/doll and pictures...There's even a flash game where you can fuck raindow dash...I don't think so
When there are ton of pictures and a few videos of male fans cumming on MLP toys/doll and pictures...There's even a flash game where you can fuck raindow dash...I don't think so
Rule 34 exists for EVRYTHING. Ponies are by no means the weirdest thing for people to fantasize about.mad825 said:OP, you're right! Our perception of masculine and feminine ideals changes every few decades. I myself consider MLP the best thing that a man can enjoy.
When there are ton of pictures and a few videos of male fans cumming on MLP toys/doll and pictures...There's even a flash game where you can fuck raindow dash...I don't think so
Spare me from that rule 34 jargon. There are people who actually fancy them sexually explicitly as characters not the fact they might have a pair of tits and a hole drawn on.kailus13 said:Rule 34 exists for EVRYTHING. Ponies are by no means the weirdest thing for people to fantasize about.mad825 said:OP, you're right! Our perception of masculine and feminine ideals changes every few decades. I myself consider MLP the best thing that a man can enjoy.
When there are ton of pictures and a few videos of male fans cumming on MLP toys/doll and pictures...There's even a flash game where you can fuck raindow dash...I don't think so