Do many Westerners really dislike Japanese games for such shallow reasons as "anime"?

[Zhukov]

I certainly would start calling them shallow for it.

I take it you don't have a much negative view of being shallow, given that you're doing the exact same thing for anime.

I'm a little bit confused by your wording in general, though.

Sorry, that was a typo.

That was meant to say "I certainly wouldn't call them shallow for it."

 

[LilithSlave]

You seem to find gameplay extremely important

Some of my actual beliefs are an enigma to me sometimes. There's a hidden element of things that lead to my positions I espouse on things many times. And I've sometimes changed my opinion on something very quickly after losing an internet argument and being ridiculed(and refuted) by an entire community of people. If just to see how it holds up. I'm not like how a lot of people stereotype people in internet arguments, I do change and revise my opinions and beliefs if they are shaken up enough. Or that by the end of the argument, I don't feel that they hold up to a community of people well enough.

I'm a bit Socratic in that I do doubt myself and change my mind and hold my own opinions and beliefs to heavy scrutiny. If you looked into me enough, you might find that that I've held very different positions on things like the importance of gameplay or what's "shallow" in games. And someone might call me a hypocrite. But I'm not, I'm changing. As of currently, I'm in the formation of a new opinion.

More than anything, I don't like the fact that people think that Westerners do not want to play anime games, assert that Japan needs to drop the anime aesthetic when attempting to give criticisms of Japan's current video game industry, and so forth.

And then a lot of those same people turn around and call people shallow for playing games with the anime aesthetic. A user here called people who like cute stuff instead of steroidy power fantasies "shallow", along with poor people and all minorities. I told them that they were being bigoted about their opinions, and I was warned.

And that's just really the tip of the iceburg. I have thousands of experiences just like it.

 

[Dandark]

I love anime, I watch a lot of it and it's one of my favorite things. Even though I do like it, I have to admit that a lot it will probably come of as really silly to a lot of people.

I like what I like and let other people like what they like. Im pretty sure plenty people didn't like many things about Asura's wrath but I greatly enjoyed that game. I don't like many things about Cod or Bulletstorm but many people enjoy those games.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Plenty of anime games with guys that aren't macho hunks of muscle have sold plenty well. And to be honest, that seems like a fairly shallow thing to say about Japanese games. That the characters look to gay and anime. I can understand degrees of personal preference, but saying that they should chance, because the West, as a whole, will not tolerate effeminate male characters or manga characters in general, seems ridiculous.

You could say that it's an indication of how far our visual aesthetic has fallen that people will freak the fuck out when they are presented with a reasonably-proportioned human being. (This [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Cloud_Strife_art.jpg/200px-Cloud_Strife_art.jpg] is a lot closer to the body proportions an athletic male would actually have than this [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dc/Gears_of_War_3_box_artwork.png/250px-Gears_of_War_3_box_artwork.png].) His head is larger than his biceps! He looks like a woman! Somehow this is a bad thing!

 

[TheCaptain]

You could say that it's an indication of how far our visual aesthetic has fallen that people will freak the fuck out when they are presented with a reasonably-proportioned human being. (This [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Cloud_Strife_art.jpg/200px-Cloud_Strife_art.jpg] is a lot closer to the body proportions an athletic male would actually have than this [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dc/Gears_of_War_3_box_artwork.png/250px-Gears_of_War_3_box_artwork.png].) His head is larger than his biceps! He looks like a woman! Somehow this is a bad thing!

It's just so very hard to look past the spiky hair and the huge sword... It's little things like that that keep bothering me. I'm probably too sensitive about that; I remember when they introduced these kind of hairstyles into World of Warcraft with Blood Elves and Varian Wrynn, it was almost impossible for me not to notice them all the time.

 

[VargRaev]

Well, games with anime looks tend to be of specific genres (like 2d fighters or JRPGs). maybe some people just arent into those genres and the aesthetics is just what seals the deal for them? I'm just guessing here, though.
Personally , i have a habit of buying games simply because they HAVE that anime look ^^

 

[LilithSlave]

Not only is the art style shitty

Woah, calm your opinions down.

However if someone actually calls something straight up BAD for being "too anime" then he is just a massive idiot.

I can't disagree with that.

I think that a lot of people aren't quite getting this thread, by the way.

 

[LilithSlave]

If im one of those people, please tell me and i will see what i can do.

Ah, not really, no. Even if we disagree.

I'm referring to the folks wondering where some of this stuff came from when I said in the OP that my post is in response to this thread. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.367896-The-reason-why-Japaneses-games-are-floundering-in-the-west?page=1]

It's industry related instead of just personally related.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

A lot of the time this happens based on the player's mood. We being individuals have different tastes and such (I can hear 'No Duh' reverbing in my ears already) and while its true they change with time, they can also change with the moment.

At the moment, I'm plaing Mass Effect 2, because I wanna play my space opera with the bisexual blue chicks, biped velociraptor and space gypsy elf and some other guys out to stop a race of sentient robot squid monsters from destroying the galaxy.

A few weeks ago, I was on a kick with Bayonetta because then I wanted to play a game about a 7 foot tall gunslinging witch moonlighting as a British fetish model who kills angels and can't speak a complete paragraph without inuendo. It is because of Bayonetta's absurdities that I enjoy the game. The same is true for the genuine emotional and earnest feelings put forward in Mass Effect.

Japanese games also tend to move ever so closer to the absurd or abstract in terms of design and gameplay but without a whole hearted effort to embrace this insanity and camp, something feels off. I don't think Call of Duty would be as entertaining as it is without the characters wholeheartedly believing that they are the worlds only hope against a global conspiracy that comprises of every wet dream Tom Clancy wishes he'd had.

Also with asthetics, its important to understand that while gameplay is the solid chassis and powerful engine upon which the experiance is built, our first experiance is with the eyes.

An example:

The Volvo S80. A four door sedan; reliable and safe. Also about as visually interesting as a cheese sandwich.

Noble M600. A two door sports; sleek, precise and not for beginners. Sexy as all hell to look at too.

If I walked into a car yard, my eyes would go to the Noble in an instant; the lines and curves are designed to catch your eye, draw you in. Indeed I chose these two to make this point because they have the same 4.4L V8 engine, though the Noble has a twin turbo added.

So too it is with games, the cover art must catch your eye in some way. Then the designs of the characters and level on the back must further draw you in. Some people will never love the anime-esque art style, that is a fact of life. Just as it shits them off for all its 'clown suits', 'androdgynous teens' and 'overly dramatic acting' or whatever, it shits me to no end that Marcus Fenix exists at all. I can't play Gears of War because the setting is over-compensating and the characters are all obnoxious fucks, but I also cannot play Final Fantasy because even though I love the art style, the colourful pallette and characters who while as one note as Marcus and co, at least play different notes instead of the same one, the combat shits me to tears and makes me want to eat my Playstation.

Different strokes Lillith, once you make peace with that when it comes to games, you'll probably have more energy to direct to other things you love or feel passionate about

 

[Rawne1980]

Snipped for space saving

So in short, what you mean is "stop disliking what I like".

Heaven forbid people have a different view to you, we wouldn't want that now would we.

People play games for their own enjoyment. If they don't like "anime" style games then that is their own damn prerogative. If it's not something they enjoy then it's not something they will buy is it?

I've noticed you a lot on these forums bashing certain things and certain kinds of people. I thought it was quirky at first and it amused me, I have to apologise, i've not been able to take you seriously at all.

But when you start looking down on people for not liking what you like it gets a bit much.

Some people just aren't that interested in anime style games ... at all.

People aren't telling Japanese developers to change what they make. What they develop is entirely up to them. The "market" for those kind of games isn't that big though. If they want a slice of the western market, and anime games aren't doing it, then they have 2 choices .... change or stick with the Asian market.

If you pay attention to the intrawebz, the market for those kind of games has dropped a hell of a lot over recent years. So much so that developers in Japan are asking why.

So it isn't limited to this forum, there are quite literally millions who do not like that style.

But they should all hang their heads in shame because random person on the net thinks it's "shallow" to dislike what she likes.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Not only is the art style shitty, a lot of Japanese games also have shitty gameplay and usually a shitty story.
Can I go back to Skyrim now?

I see what you did there.

 

[TheCaptain]

It's industry related instead of just personally related.

Ah, but that's kinda the point, isn't it? Whatever effect people's personal taste has on the industry - the big picture, if you want - usually only matters to people who have a particular interest in the genre at hand. As in, for you it's important that the japanese game industry gets the incentive and the ressources to make lots of high-quality anime style video games, while I don't care much either way. I won't be disappointed if Japanese developers quit making mange/anime style games, but I'm also not opposed to them making twelve of those a year...

Not only is the art style shitty, a lot of Japanese games also have shitty gameplay and usually a shitty story.
Can I go back to Skyrim now?

I see what you did there.

I think I saw a mudcrab the other day.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Honestly, I don't blame people for not wanting to play games with an anime style. Because the very fact that anime has become "a style" constitutes how stagnant anime has become.

And I like anime, or at least I used to like it when it wasn't the shallow, teenage-pandering, fanservice-y drivel it is now.

I like tons of Japanese game designs:

- Metal Gear Solid
- Resident Evil
- Street Fighter
- The Team Ico games
- Silent Hill
- Zelda (particularly Wind Waker)
- Demon's Souls/Dark Souls
- Final Fantasy 9

But games that just seem the scream, "Look, look how anime we are" just aren't up my alley. The only reason Valkyria Chronicles gets a pass is because the gameplay is pretty good.