Do members of the military get too much respect? What profession do you respect the most?

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dyre

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Fagotto said:
dyre said:
Fagotto said:
I wouldn't say education should factor much into how much you respect someone's profession. Utility gained for society is the much bigger factor of the two you mentioned. I'd take a bachelor's degree civil rights activist over a master's degree stock broker any day.

Regarding your point about the military's helpfulness to our country, keep in mind that the purpose of a standing army isn't just to destabilize the Middle East, even if that's what they're being used for right now. It's also to have troops available if we ever really need them. I'd say the ideological value of being there if your country needs you warrants some respect, though the current exploitation of our military power by politicians doesn't.
I can respect achievement, regardless of how useful it is. I value how useful it is, but that is a separate category for me.

The fact that they were used in that manner is a good reason for me to lack respect. They put themselves in a position to be used for purposes that may not be any good.

They provide some usefulness by being there. But just being there in and of itself isn't exactly a spectacular achievement.
And when you need them? If, say, the soldiers who enlisted in 2001 ended up fighting a defensive war against Russia/China/insert country here instead of Iraq? It's the fact that they'll be there when we really need them that warrants respect.

As for your respect for achievement, you realize that higher education depends greatly on socioeconomic conditions, right? For example, in my town, everyone in my graduating class went to college, except one guy who enlisted in the IDF or something. Because their parents were rich and valued education. It's a completely different story in an inner city.
 

Trenten Meyer

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Fagotto said:
Trenten Meyer said:
Fagotto said:
StarCecil said:
Fagotto said:
thaluikhain said:
Fagotto said:
Military? Not much education required in and of itself. Certain positions, but the respect people give doesn't seem to depend on that. How much good it does? Right now I'm not seeing much at all. Might help a bit, but the helping seems to be mostly fixing things that they broke in the first place.
Do you know the proper way of constructing a foxhole in stage? Best procedure for surviving a nuclear blast? Look up all the US field manuals they have online, there's quite a bit of information there.

Likewise, I don't know about the US military so much, but what about the military's role in East Timor? The Solomon Islands? Disaster relief in Haiti?
Why the hell would I need to know that? I'm not talking about that kind of education.

What about those? Some minor things. What, are you trying to paint that as the majority of what the military does? And for things like disaster relief there are organizations that help. I do not see people falling down to lick their boots.
What you don't seem to understand is that every, every position in the military requires some degree of education. I'm a buck private and I do the same work that a white-collar office worker does every day. There are other servicemen of similar rank performing the duties of legal interns (to say nothing of the officer cadre of both MOS'). Even the combat arms have significant education in technical skills. It's a huge fallacy to think that soldiers are uneducated.

And are you suggesting that because one job might be blue collar or because a person in that occupation has no conventional education (for whatever reason) that they are therefore deserving of less respect than a person who does have an education, regardless of the utility of that education?
I am referring to the kind of education as in getting a degree. Not just any old office work.

The profession is deserving of less respect.
Why, the only things youve cited is
1 theyre not educated
2 they may die, but it doesnt do any good

lets start with one, shall we? they do not deserve respect because theyre not educated, but the education they do have you dismiss because you dont respect them. I doubt you see the problem though, well, let me educate you. you are basing an argument on itself with nothing else to base that argument.
Actually, if you spent some time actually reading my post you might notice that I wasn't talking about being educated in how to build fox holes. This should be obvious. If I accepted that shitty argument I'd be accepting that cashiers learn how to operate a cash register and are therefore 'educated'.

You just assume my reason for dismissing it. I explicitly stated a different reason. You can bash your head against a wall all you want and try to lie about the reason I dismissed it, but you have no honest excuse for doing so.

on to two, you use the oft quoted "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" but if you take that to its logical extreme, then, why bother, right. I mean youre not certain it will work, so theres no point. of course that leads to just doing either nothing, or terrible things, which leads to hell faster.
Lol? That's not the logical conclusion. The only conclusion is that good intentions aren't enough. How much certainty required is never stated. You're foolish to assume I expect absolute certainty. Try again, this time with more actual logic.
How bout this, I wasn't talking about fox hole either. I wastalking about the things he cited, for example high level managing, high level computer operations, being able to build strucurally sound buildings, sending up satellites. And how bout an example, my college dropout, former marine father, was fully, and I do mean fully qualified to pretty much do anything with computers. He still has the books from the nineties too. He could, when his education was current, build, fix, diagnose, install any computer system out there.
Also, I was taking what you presented about people going to die on the off chance that it may help some one. You said, with out certainty, it's not worth it. Here is a completly different argument, what qualifies you to decide who much their life is worth compared to the probable gain risking it entails. What make you a better judge of what there life is worth than they themselves are
 

electric method

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Wow, just wow. Thought number 1, if anyone thinks the military gets to much respect go do what is required to even qualify to wear the uniform. Then go through all the aditional training to become proficient in any MOS. Thought number 2; Look up the oath that all service members take upon entry into the service.

When I enlisted in the USMC it wasn't to go off to war, it was because I choose to serve a country whose ideals are those of freedom for all. Protecting that freedom and ensuring a way of life for many people I would never meet was, and still is, a joy and an honor I would never trade. That people have the freedom to voice their opinions, dissenting or not, is something I am glad to have contributed to.

The part about those in the military getting paid squat is entirely true. In the early 90's I made exactly $880.00 a month.

What many people have missed in the topic is this; a service persons life is one of sacrifice and hardship. Not just for themselves, but for their families as well. They sacrifice their freedom to choose, the ability to have a normal life all so that others can enjoy their own normal lives without interuption. Often service members will go 12-18 months without seeing their families, living in conditions that most would find appalling. Under constant and severe stress, going for days without things many take for granted like, hot meals, showers, clean clothes. For those in combat arms is the added knowledge of; mistakes will kill people. Either their friends or someone else.

I won't even go into how terribly veterans in the US are treated when they come home by they very government they served. Nor will I mention the quality of medical care they get. So, do vets get enough respect, absolutely not. But, if you ask a vet or any active duty personal if they did/do it for respect they are prolly going to look at you strangely. Then they'll tell you no.
 

mrhateful

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Apr 8, 2010
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Spartan448 said:
The U.S. army used to be something to respect, but it has now turned into the government's own private hit squad. There is NOTHING respectful about being in the army anymore. Now if you want a profession that doesn't get respect, try teachers. Without 'em, we'd still be sitting around banging rocks together.
The reason people became teachers was because they weren't good enough for the real thing. Teachers are only the messengers of the great minds. That is why they aren't respected.
 

dyre

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Mar 30, 2011
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Fagotto said:
dyre said:
Fagotto said:
dyre said:
Fagotto said:
I wouldn't say education should factor much into how much you respect someone's profession. Utility gained for society is the much bigger factor of the two you mentioned. I'd take a bachelor's degree civil rights activist over a master's degree stock broker any day.

Regarding your point about the military's helpfulness to our country, keep in mind that the purpose of a standing army isn't just to destabilize the Middle East, even if that's what they're being used for right now. It's also to have troops available if we ever really need them. I'd say the ideological value of being there if your country needs you warrants some respect, though the current exploitation of our military power by politicians doesn't.
I can respect achievement, regardless of how useful it is. I value how useful it is, but that is a separate category for me.

The fact that they were used in that manner is a good reason for me to lack respect. They put themselves in a position to be used for purposes that may not be any good.

They provide some usefulness by being there. But just being there in and of itself isn't exactly a spectacular achievement.
And when you need them? If, say, the soldiers who enlisted in 2001 ended up fighting a defensive war against Russia/China/insert country here instead of Iraq? It's the fact that they'll be there when we really need them that warrants respect.

As for your respect for achievement, you realize that higher education depends greatly on socioeconomic conditions, right? For example, in my town, everyone in my graduating class went to college, except one guy who enlisted in the IDF or something. Because their parents were rich and valued education. It's a completely different story in an inner city.
Not to me because they put themselves in a position to be used. If they joined up at the start of some kind of defensive war, that might deserve respect. Before? They're letting themselves be used.

Yes, and? I'm not talking about individuals here, I am talking about professions.
Err, so you'd prefer we had a standing army of zero troops if someone chose to invade us? We'd have to defend our shores with citizen mobs.

So, it doesn't matter to you if most people in said profession are just there because they came from privileged backgrounds?
 

captaincabbage

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Apr 8, 2010
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I actually just had a conversation about this the other day.

Essentially, no, they do not get too much respect. If anything, they get too little. These are the people willing to literally lay down their lives for our countries, so that everyone else who lives here can live their life in safely and security.
disrespecting the service-men and women who put themselves back for the good of everyone else is just disgraceful, on every concievable level. You don't have to support, agree with or even respect the reasons for war, but you'd damn well better respect the people out there doing that job.

And for the record, no, I'm not American, I'm not from a military family, I'm not a gun-nut and no I don't think any reason short of life-threatening invasion is reason enough to go to war.
 

superstringz

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Things to remember about warfare vs Emergency Services:
Military | Emergency Services
Food sucks (except Navy) | Eat at local Diners on the job(Paramedics)
Lucky to have internet on a six month deployment | Almost always connected
Have to trust people you might hate with your life | Can quit any time
Make slightly more than minimum wage (E-4+ is decent, though)| Starting salaries around 30K/yr
Can receive the death penalty for being drunk at work | Firemen are not shot at dawn by firing squad. Ever.


This is not to belittle emergency services, I was an EMT before I was a sailor. But really, there is no civilian job that quite compares. I'd say the status quo is just fine.

Also, an important historical note: The Romans treated their soldiers like crap before the dictatorships. They had a bunch of alienated people who were blood brothers with each other, and trained to kill. A disillusioned military sows the seeds for a military coup. Is saying "thanks for your service" really too high a price?
 

Trenten Meyer

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Oct 20, 2011
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I will, to you.
Anybody other than fagotto want to discuss when people are allowed the "pleasure" of so bodies respect? Or perhaps, that really all you need really is self-respect, and a positive mind set?
 

jinx811

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Feb 4, 2011
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I'm a Retired Vet as well and I believe ALL VETS deserve some respect. If you're willing to lay your life on the line for idiots (like the one that brought up this subject), that you have never met, so they can say what they wanna say. Then yes, you should get a whole lot of respect. Firefighters as well. Especially the volunteer ones. They're not getting paid to run into your house when it's on fire. They do it b/c it's the right thing to do. Now cops on the other hand. What a joke. 90% of Law Enforc. Officers break more laws then I ever have. They harrass to many good citizens. And the majority of then are only in Law enforcement b/c the couldn't hack it in th Military. Or just couldn't get in the service b/c they were to scared to serve a high and greater cause. My hats off to all my brothers and sisters in arms.
 

Trenten Meyer

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Oct 20, 2011
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jinx811 said:
I'm a Retired Vet as well and I believe ALL VETS deserve some respect. If you're willing to lay your life on the line for idiots (like the one that brought up this subject), that you have never met, so they can say what they wanna say. Then yes, you should get a whole lot of respect. Firefighters as well. Especially the volunteer ones. They're not getting paid to run into your house when it's on fire. They do it b/c it's the right thing to do. Now cops on the other hand. What a joke. 90% of Law Enforc. Officers break more laws then I ever have. They harrass to many good citizens. And the majority of then are only in Law enforcement b/c the couldn't hack it in th Military. Or just couldn't get in the service b/c they were to scared to serve a high and greater cause. My hats off to all my brothers and sisters in arms.
Oh, and the police arent required by law to actually do anything
 

lockeslylcrit

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Dec 28, 2008
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Doctors and teachers aren't really respected the same way deployed military personnel are, simply for the fact that they don't have to risk their lives every single day. Yes, there are other professions that deserve utmost respect, but it's not really the same as those people who volunteered to fight and potentially die.