I always pictured Italians as artists...AperioContra said:
And this man speaks the truth, stereotypes exist, and we associate people with stereotypes
Do other countries really think ALL americans are stupid?
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And this man speaks the truth, stereotypes exist, and we associate people with stereotypes
[/quote]oh. see, because i'm american, too, and i assumed you were british, instead of assuming you were assuming i'm british. well, that explains why i was so lost. also, i'm not implying texans are dumb, i'm just saying, one of the biggest things people like to say is that texans are gun happy idiots, when texas actually has the best state economy in all 50 and one of the best school systems[/quote]
IKR, I live in Plano which actually has the highest grades in all of texas, and we do have a manageing economy right now. Now that we're on each other's side, why dont we fight for our country, team up, and beat this British liberal fuck T.D.? He claims that universal healthcare, socialism, and taxing the rich are good things and believes americans are "12 year olds acting like big boys".
IKR, I live in Plano which actually has the highest grades in all of texas, and we do have a manageing economy right now. Now that we're on each other's side, why dont we fight for our country, team up, and beat this British liberal fuck T.D.? He claims that universal healthcare, socialism, and taxing the rich are good things and believes americans are "12 year olds acting like big boys".
And yes, the town I live in, plano, has the highest grades in Texas and ranks in the top 10 ISD's in the nation. This can be supported by the fact that we must take 3 years of foreign language, inn the same language, pre-calculas, health, communication applications, 4 years of english, 4 of science, and 4 of history/geography, 2.5 elective credits, a sport, and sometimes a finance class during high school alone. My brother is in private school and I am in public school, we are both in high school and our educations in comparison are nearly equal.Tubez said:
we don't have as much a say in it as we say we do. and the majority does not mean everybodySgtFoley said:
Ok, if you live in America than you should really know this, ISD stands for Independent School District. That means that every town, and some times more than one, are in a district of schools that all work together. Example: If it snows in Texas, as it does at least once a year, than all schools have to close if school were to stop in that district. I live in PISD, Plano Independent School District, Plano is a suberb next to Dallas in the DFW area. We have been awarded the Blue Ribbion Award about 5 years ago which means that we have the best ISD in Texas, a state known for its education eventhough the world and sometimes people in other states seem to think otherwise. And I know that last year we ranked 2nd in the nation, this was said by not only our teachers but also some of my brothers. Now dont think that because of our distance from Dallas we are riddled with crime, better homes and gardens ranked us at around 50th in the safest places to live. We also have the 2nd highest number of Highschool State Championships in football, 7, I mean American football not soccer. ESPN even did an episode of greatest highschool rivalires on our Senior Highschool, Plano Senior, against Plano East, another Senior Highschool. And while I'm at it, let me disprove some stereotypes about Texas that are present in foregin countries, we do not all have a southern accent, we do not ride horses or fight indians, eventhough I do own and ride a horse, not all of us are racist redneck hicks that kill everything they see, and we do not all wear cowboy hats. Oh and just because I own own a horse doesnt mean my family is rich, my brother payed for it from his bank account with money he earned and we both own it, him more than I, and we keep in a pasture next to a country house my dad purchased to rent out.Tubez said:
Well, you'd think that would be true, but in reality, after several centuries of "melting", the pot has pretty much homogenised by now. Particularly now that border control has tightened a lot, most residents of America have been living there for generations, and have pretty much forgotten the "old ways of the old country." They say 80,000,000 Americans claim Irish ancestry. Which is over a quarter of the country. But I doubt even a quarter of the Americans you meet could find Ireland on an unmarked map, let alone have in-depth knowledge of Irish culture.Therumancer said:
I think that's a bit presumptuous. Americans go on about living in "the land of the free", but in reality it's probably one of the most dystopian, oppressed first world countries there is. The CIA and FBI go around like cowboys doing whatever the hell they want, the NSA can spy on anyone and smear citizens who criticise the government, and the local police are more heavily armed than most country's military. And even ignoring stuff like Waco, Texas, the Red Scare, Japanese-American concentration camps, etc, which you could blame on the government, you've got a large amount of fundamentalist Christians who readily and openly oppress pretty much anything that doesn't line up with their antiquated beliefs. I think it'd be hell to live in a country where you have to worry about some redneck blowing your head off with his Desert Eagle because you took the Lord's name in vain.Therumancer said:
This paragraph makes no sense to me. Why are you bringing up an East vs West war all of a sudden? And why is it "increasingly inevitable"? And are you honestly referring to everyone outside the first world as "ignorant masses"? They're worried about armed rebels stealing their food and destroying oil wells which flood their village and kill their crops/fish, do you think they really care about or even know anything of our "attitudes"? If a war starts between East and West, it will be about the same thing that starts all wars: power. No amount of humility and gratefulness is going to affect world peace or convince a standing army not to invade.Therumancer said:
James Joseph Emerald said:
I didn't want to get into a huge political debate, and intended to say my piece and move on. however since the few responses I've received are fairly polite and days later I'm still getting responses I'll field one (and this is similar to other posts I've received on what I said).
For starters the US is not even remotely oppressive or dystopian, at least not in the way you suggest, indeed the very fact that people in a lot of other countries tend to think it is comes down to my points about ignorance, even in the first world. A good example of this kind of thing is things like the whole "Oil For Food" scandal where France pretty much didn't support "The War On Terror" because it was breaking embargos and using that program to trade for it's own profit without competition with Iraq. For all claims to be peace loving as their motivation, France was caught with it's hand in the cookie jar as a result of that invasion. It took months before the French people, despite their claims of freedom of the press, ever really started to catch on.
Better, and less ambigious, examples come from law enforcement like you mentioned. Oddly one of the reasons why people like me take a "lol@the rest of the world's criticism" approach is because on one hand we hear about how the US are hypocrits with insane police officers, and on the other we hear complaints about how we're a group of anarchists who allow high levels of personal armament and people to run crazy in the streets. Honestly we get more FAIR criticism for letting criminals go in cases where they would be convicted in any other nation, and a lot of those criminals are let go with a comparitive slap on the wrist. Our policies about free speech, search and seizure, chain of evidence, and the way we handle burden of proof and the need of the goverment to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt mean that a lot of obviously guilty people go free given that it simply being really likely someone did something is not enough in the US. Americans get criticized for feeling that these rights apply in other nations where there is more draconian law enforcement, hence the whole complaint about "Americans arrogantly assuming the US doesn't end with it's borders", you really can't have things both ways.
While it was well over a decade ago now when I took "Criminal Justice" one thing I did study was other first world law enforcement systems compared to the US, largely those of tight allies like Canada and The UK. This was not a deep area of study, but some key differances were pointed out. For example in the US our "cowboy" police actually wield less power than say those in Canada. In Canada the police have what amounts to a blank warrent and can suspend the civil liberties of citizens for purposes of searches and such. They can get in trouble if they are wrong and can't justify it, but the point is that they can do it (or could), in the US the police don't in general have that kind of authority, they always have to slow down and go through a third party.
The thing is that the "horrible and oppressive Patriot Act" which allows our goverment to use some of it's emergency powers without having to declare a full on national state o emergency, is only a big deal in comparison to the rights Americans expect. Most of the things that does are default powers of law enforcement in other countries. Overall the patriot-act armed Feds arguably still wield less power than say MI-5 or the Canadian police, it's just an unusual amount for the US. Going back decades (old news when I was in school) it should be noted these powers still aren't even close to what the Canadian Mounties used to have where they doubled as Canada's equivilent of the CIA/Secret Service as well as being a federal police force, at least as I remember reading it. Old school mounties probably being the closest thing to "Judge Dredd" the first world has ever actually seen.
It's also important to note that in the US the citizens aren't entirely at the mercy of law enforcement. One of the cornerstones of our country (for a reason) is the right to keep and bear arms. What this means is that law enforcement and the goverment always has to be careful about what it does. Handling one dude with a gun, or a small group with a gun, is fairly easy, but a popular revolt isn't (and arguements about the military cutting loose on a popular uprising are silly given that assuming the volunteers there did, the nation would be decimated. Driving tanks through and carpet bombing New York City to stop a mass uprising would level the city for example. The right to bear arms assumes a goverment that tries to take over won't wind up ruling a major nation and infrastructure even if it wins... which curtails a lot of ambition in that direction). What's more the police also have to weigh ridiculous laws in the sense of "well, is it worth trying to arrest someone for this knowing I might wind up having him shoot at me?". A surprising number of the US's odd laws are there because some politician passed them and then found the police basically saying "no, we are not going to enforce something so idiotic".
The point here is that it's again a situation with contridictory criticism, we can't be ulta-violent armed anarchists with guns, and victims of an orwellian society at the same time. The truth is actually somewhere in the middle. One problem with the US, and why the rest of the world fails in trying to guess what's going on here, is that there really isn't any kind of an analogy to use for the US and the way it works to make a prediction off of.
When it comes to the number of people in the US that are in prisons, understand that high levels of freedom amount to people pushing the envelope with some frequency. Ditto for the fact that our law enforcement system SEEMS kind of weak, so people feel less risk in trying to commit crimes, feeling "well nobody can prove this beyond a reasonable doubt" (only to see it happen). Relatively light sentences also contribute, our prison sentences being less of a deterrant than they probably should be. Someone gets a few decades in the US and it can be big news, when it's less noteworthy elsewhere. A big question in looking at how many people are in US jails, is how long most of those people are sentenced for. It's also noteworthy that the people in the US are less afraid of jail, than they are of other inmates, in part because we allow the inmates a relatively high degree of freedom... which leads to problems. It's funny, but as some people in the navy will point out, a prisoner on Death Row has MORE rights to living space and humane conditions than a Sailor does.
I could say more but this is getting long, and I'm hoping I made my point.
As far as being a melting pot, I think part of what the world misses is that the US takes the attitude that we melt down the rest of the world, keep what's best, and then toss out the rest. A lot of what irritates the rest of the world is when we run into something we kind of cast off, and treat it as being unworthy. Yes that *IS* kind of arrogant, but don't mistake not caring with not knowing.
It should also be noted that there is an attitude among the US that all humans have the right to the same basic freedoms as we possess, which leads to some of the conflicts. To be honest our attitudes are spreading here (we're doing more to conquer the world with TV, The Big Mac, and coffee houses than anyone has ever achieved with the military), and one of the reasons many otherwise civilized nations want to institute "national firewalls" for purposes of "cultural preservation"... and really that spread means that a lot of Americans sort of feel the need to kind of make a point internationall. Being powerful enough where our embassies can get US citizens out of most trouble contributes to this as well.
When it comes to other issues, it's important to also note that in the US we have so many problems with minority cultures and the like because of tolerance as opposed to the opposite. See, we'll allow anyone to get up on a soap box and say pretty much whatever they want compared to other nations. When we stop them it seems oppressive simply because of our comparitive policies, where in many other nations you wouldn't see the same kinds of things because it just wouldn't be tolerated and never built up to the same level. In the US a lot of the minority outcry is because we allow it, and actually encourage it, not because we're oppressive.
A lot of people might not like the above paragraph, and I'm sure many people from outside the US are looking back to civil rights issues and saying "ha, we've dealt with that, we just did it better", but really there is no comparison, the degree makes all the differance here. When you look at the UK problems with "Chavs" and such, which has only been at this level recently (though it's by no means new) it's noteworthy in comparison to how that society normally is. In the US on the other hand we've been dealing with it in some form as a fact of life pretty much forever. A lot of people compare Chavs to US Gangstas and White Gangsta wannabees, the analogy isn't perfect but fairly close (and I think the US version inspired the current UK version sadly), one important differant is that we've been dealing with it on a similar level for a long time.
In the UK riots are relatively infrequent because of the societal differances, greater control, and differant societal behaviors. In the US however we've dealt with things a bit more frequently. A good analogy to the current UK riot, would be the LA Riots here in the US over Rodney King, both of which involved some hardcore police action which might have been justified (but politics make it impossible to tell retroactively) that people used as an excuse to riot. People around the world made fun of the US when that "big riot" happened, in part because of the freedom that planted the seeds, right now I think as people around the world loosen up a bit, they are starting to see this can happen anywhere. A lot of people won't like this, but I see a lot of similarities between Rodney and the guy in the UK. Both were scumbags, both had a lot of bad information (in the US there was a partial video tape showing only the beating, where the police broke his limbs, not the part shown later with him shrugging off a taser and the inabillity to put him down any other way... in the UK someone started rumors that they cuffed the guy and then shot him in the back of the head execution-style which apparently didn't happen), both seemed to be used as vague excuses by subcultures that had been allowed to run rampant to riot.... as I said many will disagree, that's how I see things, not that it's directly relevent to the current conversation.
Thanks for reading this far, even if you (and other readers) disagree. In short the basic point here is that I don't think the American stereotype is accurate, nor do I think many people believe it is. I think it's mostly a reaction to the love-hate relationship with the US and it's culture, and international ignorance/pride more than a matter of US ignorance/pride. I also personally think that it was created wholecloth to an extent in reaction to US stereotypical (and sometimes bitingly accurate in a negative way) portrayals of people in other countries and cultures like China, Ireland, The UK, etc... and it's more a way of firing back without quite the same basis. There being less basis because the US tends to make fun of itself a lot less than other nations, or at least not in a the same style that other nations do (our self-depreciating humor being more internal). The British making fun of themselves is pretty much the basis for an entire style of humor. Ditto for Irishmen and the whole "drunken brawler" thing, a stereotype that is both mocked and worshipped almost simultaneously. The US generally doesn't do that, and the exceptions are not usually about the US as a whole as we're a lot differant than other nations, but about people from specific parts of the US. An example of the whole mocked/worshipped thing would be the whole rural Hillbilly/Redneck stereotype, portrayed as being both ridiculous and oddly awesome at the same time. That's not something people elsewhere can really point to and say "that's what we can laugh at America about" because it's regional, and the punchline is typically how the rest of the US isn't like that. Honestly I think the redneck jokes and stuff have formed the basis of what people are trying to globally build a mock-worthy US stereotype out of, and that's also why it doesn't work quite the same way. Our lack of self-depreciating stereotypes of the sort most nations project for humorous purposes (sometimes) also contributes to our reputation for arrogance.
Americans are getting what's coming to them as far as spite and peer judgement. I would understand the confusion if a few unrelated accidents had caused an entire culture to garner a less than favorable opinion in the international community, but that is not the case with America. Recently America has over and over again proved itself greedy, malevolent and corrupt. It's people have proved themselves over and over again extraordinarily ignorant of global events, global history and global culture, as well as the individual cultures that make it up.
And this is coming from someone born and raised in Massachusetts. I may feel absolutely alienated and mis-interpreted as a person when I travel to other countries, but I do not deny the logic behind believing the worst about Americans. I do.
Of course there are good, smart people in this country and blanket statements should never be made about any people. But, never has there ever been a better reason to do so.
We now have a duty to begin to cultivate a sort of culture that doesn't beg animosity and hatred from others. We will get love once we give it.
And this is coming from someone born and raised in Massachusetts. I may feel absolutely alienated and mis-interpreted as a person when I travel to other countries, but I do not deny the logic behind believing the worst about Americans. I do.
Of course there are good, smart people in this country and blanket statements should never be made about any people. But, never has there ever been a better reason to do so.
We now have a duty to begin to cultivate a sort of culture that doesn't beg animosity and hatred from others. We will get love once we give it.
C'mon, how are we greedy, we went to Vietnam to keep their goverment from being oppresive, we went to Korea to do the same thing, and if we didn't go to Korea the North would be double the size it is now. It would be terrible. And just a while ago we went to Iraq to kill a dictator, and even now we are supporting the Libyan rebels. We helped in Hati, Indonesia, and Kuwait. We beilve in helping the innocent, not stealing from them and lashing them down. We're the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave, and we try to extend those rights to others. I'm betting your a socialist, traitor.Craazhy said:
I can't speak for all of Sweden, but I can with absolute certainty prove that not all people in Sweden think all Americans are stupid.
I live in Sweden, and I'm absolutely convinced a majority of Americans are far from stupid.
I live in Sweden, and I'm absolutely convinced a majority of Americans are far from stupid.
No, I actually know Americans that are quite intelligent.
I do think that America as a culture has a hideous amount of double-standards and tend to embrace excess at the expense of others.
As for my Swedish countrymen I guess there is a mixed opinion.
I do think that America as a culture has a hideous amount of double-standards and tend to embrace excess at the expense of others.
As for my Swedish countrymen I guess there is a mixed opinion.
I just honest to god dont want to type all this crap, I know your not gonna change your opinion, and I wont change mine, we're both patriots. Yes I spoke a little brashly earlier when I said know what your talking about, my bad. Also of course knife violence would be the problem, its the next step down from knives, that was kind of a given. Yes we can produce all necessary goods, although our standard of living would be severly lowered. We dont because maybe we might have to shut off our borders one day and then we'll have nothing. We can get our petroleum goods from the oil we produce at places like Spindle top and Anchorage. We can also get our metals from places like Arizona and Pittsburg. Dont critize our goverment if yours is bad right now, and competition does help the betterment of man. Canada might have dropped there form of NHS, IDK i got that one from my bro rather than a credible source. Our school system is up to par as I know that some place such as Germany divide their children into groups at the 5th grade, one is college bound, one techincal school, and one lower careers. And I've actually met a german exchange student who was at the 2nd level, she was a 11th grader by german standards but 10th by american. By being an exchange student she was actually hindered rather than rewarded. In america we reward our exchange students. I do have a good understanding of other cultures and I cringe when I see a fast food joint or a diner in foregin countries, but that is not our fault. I actually know that countries such as Japan and Chile modify their McDonald's menus with tings like teryaki chicken sandwiches. They arent served in america. I have visited foregin countries and speak spainish and german, I know conversational portugese as my mother is a portugese immagrant. Universal healthcare ultimately leads to the downfall of private practice, and guns are great.T.D. said:
Hell no. My girlfriend's american. I go to the American College of Norway and i'm moving to the US next year. Would be odd for me to think all americans are stupid.
I do think some people are stupid though and they probably see me the same way. I try not to generalize too much though 'cause i know i hate to be painted the same colour as everybody else.
I do think some people are stupid though and they probably see me the same way. I try not to generalize too much though 'cause i know i hate to be painted the same colour as everybody else.
Probably depends on the country, but from what I've seen, individuals from English-speaking countries other than America tend to paint foreigners with less of a broad brush than Americans tend to.
That's not to say they don't have stereotypes about us yanks, or that those stereotypes aren't justified by someone's personal experience, just that they tend to be more careful about applying those stereotypes to the entire country as a whole. At least in casual conversation.
TL;DR: No, they phrase their prejudices better than that.
That's not to say they don't have stereotypes about us yanks, or that those stereotypes aren't justified by someone's personal experience, just that they tend to be more careful about applying those stereotypes to the entire country as a whole. At least in casual conversation.
TL;DR: No, they phrase their prejudices better than that.
I just believe that everyone on this planet(including me) is a moron to some extent. Being Canadian, I don't know any people from the USA, besides the rudeness. In my opinion, the dumbest nation is the one I understand the most: Canada.
Same here. The very reason I love the US is the reason people like them exist. The problem is they're taking over it seems... And that's all most people see when they look at us as a nation.Nieroshai said:
Kind of reviving a thread, its been nearly three weeks, I thought we had finished.Nikluz said:
Yeah the discussion did get a bit heated earlier.
I would say knife violence was better than gun violence.
Resources aren't everything, you need the man power to work with those resources. Because of the minimum wage a large amount of the crafting/resource gathering etc. is done overseas so that the companies can make more profit (its cheaper to do it there and then pay transport and taxes), its called unfair trade
. In the event of America closing its borders most of the companies would move elsewhere so they can keep that unfair trade going. But on the plus it would deal with a large amount of unemployment.Maybe if you want to continue this discussion you should make another thread as this is getting a bit off topic.
Just because i'm from England doesn't mean I like to be affiliated with the government, I think the government make loads of rubbish decisions.
I'm just pointing out the things I disagree with from your country, and add what I agree with from other countries. I point out this one maybe more so only because I can be more confident about the situation here than elsewhere. Plus I don't agree with the argument "Do you have a better plan/idea?". Sometimes no plan is better than a rubbish plan.
I don't know enough about either german or american education systems to comment, either negatively or positively. The only thing I will say is that the pledge of allegiance is the weirdest thing I've heard that the schools do. I don't how well it is enforced, but I just consider the idea exceptionally disturbing just like I think praying in schools is (e.g. mass prayer before lunch break) as both are just forms of indoctrination at that early stage.
If I implied it was I'm sorry. I don't blame america for that, it is closer to the problems of capitalism and society.
The reason for the change in menu's is that the point of fast food places like McDonalds etc. is to produce cheap, quick familiar/"normal" foods. It makes sense in Japan and Chile as their sense of "normal" foods are different from ours. It wouldn't make sense in America or in the UK, because who would order it if they went? You want a Japanese style meal you go to a Japanese style restaurant or some such.
Privatised Health Care (alone) leads to huge debts for something you can't usually control, and guns are for the people who have jobs in killing (army and hunters).