Do Racism and Comic Books Go Hand in Hand?

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Funny, I didn't think "American" was a race.

I also didn't think the American race automatically was low in melanin either.

In fact, what I believe he is saying is that the general public buy more books about a specific subsection of humanity than others and that Heroes like Luke Cage and Black Panther don't sell as many as Spiderman.

What I don't see him saying, at any time, is that comic books are racist. He's rather saying that the buyers prefer their heroes to be of the same biological set-up as they are.

Oh, and given the X-Men (one of Marvel's most popular series) are Homo Superior they aren't the same race or even the same genus.

So, if Marvel Comics are racist, it's because they don't have enough Homo Sapiens, rather than any specific branch of melanine/ethnicity.

 

[Dale Cooper]

...Black Panther, Falcon, Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Bill Foster, Monica Rambeau...

 

[Loiterer]

The only black characters I can think of that haven't been mentioned are Luke Cage, Black Panther, and Bill Foster.

American comics are rather xenophobic now I come to think of it. A lot of non-American characters have their nationality as a defining attribute (e.g Shamrock, Union Jack), as if the fact they aren't American is to be emphasised for some reason. Still, I can't see it changing anytime soon, or even that there's a great need for change. As far as I can tell it isn't a huge issue.

Edit: Spoke too soon...

 

[fix-the-spade]

Agree with him entirely, but he's not really calling comic books racist as much that comic's audiences are too predictable to allow anything other than the norm. But then Marvel is about the most stagnant comics company possible. They've been clinging onto the Marvel Way about 3 decades too long.

Storm from the X-Men, I see what he means though, those are the only ones I can really think of.

Storm usually looks white except when being played by Halle Berry.

 

[AboveUp]

Agree with him entirely, but he's not really calling comic books racist as much that comic's audiences are too predictable to allow anything other than the norm. But then Marvel is about the most stagnant comics company possible. They've been clinging onto the Marvel Way about 3 decades too long.

You took the words right out of my mouth.
Not saying that DC or Dark Horse are incredibly great either, but they dare to experiment with the medium more than Marvel does.
You wouldn't see stuff like Sandman happen with Marvel.

Also, I think Storm was supposed to be darker skinned, but they toned it down at first because they were afraid the audience wouldn't like it. Then they gradually made her darker as time went on, sometimes skipping back to completely white every now and then.

 

[Torque669]

I think its because if you make a black main character you would then have to make a Black main Villian.

Now Villians are ment to steal and kill. Dont tell me no-one would complain saying that is Racist. (Especially that guy who said Left 4 Dead 2 was racist)

 

[Semitendon]

Most major comic book heros were created in 30's thru the 60's. ie Spiderman, Superman, Batman, Hulk, X-men, and so on. At that time, it was unacceptable to have anything other than white American's as superheros. But, the comic book industry bucked the system and shortly thereafter ( the 60's,70's, and 80s) started placing black characters in lead roles. The characters were attempts to reach an alternative audience. Most of them failed.

So, the concept that comics are inherently racist is false. The most popular heros are white, because they were made at a time when "white" was all there was. The majority of black comic book characters were failures. Why? Several reasons go into this, but the most glaringly obvious one is that black people didn't read the comics.

Sales and good buisness dictate that you must reach your audience. If your audience is young, white, males, then you must find a way to connect with your target. With comic books, this is accomplished by making the hero's white, usually giving their alter ego a bland normal personality. See Spiderman, ( one of the most popular Superheros on the face of the planet) for the best example of this marketing philosophy.

Comic book companies playing to their biggest audience ( white males) is NOT racist, it's good buisness.

Other examples in buisness technique are everywhere. But, for those of you who are blind, or simply think that racism is an exclusivly "white" concept. Watch B.E.T. for two hours. You should pay particular attention to the commercials, tell me how many of the commercials even have a single appearance of a white person? How many of the commercials feature black people? Do the math and figure out the ratio of black people to white people in just two hours of B.E.T. television. In spite of the overwhelming lack of white people, this is not racist, for the same reason that comics aren't racist. It is simply the company tring to appeal to their biggest audience.

 

[gilthanan]

People generally date and marry people of the same skin color, social status, etc. Is that racist? Or is it simply natural to be drawn towards people that look like you, and that it is natural that when people want to escape to a world where they can vicariously be a hero for a day they are drawn to people that closest represent who they are, and that the predominant number of comic book readers, as have been stated, are white?

 

[HardRockSamurai]

Sad but true. Still, it doesn't mean that I want to see these bastards become a superhero group:

Spoiler: WARNING: May cause vomiting

 

[Crops]

What Brevoort stated is pretty much the truth.

When writing a comic, book, game or film, one of the best ways to draw in and capture your audience is by creating a main character that they can relate to.
Spiderman is always praised for being the 'normal' guy he is, sure he's a superhero, but he's a flawed human being before all that.
The same goes for race, religion etc. It's much easier to relate to a character that 'could have been you'.

The majority of the audience for this type of media is the white male, so why go out of your way to create someone they can't relate to, just to be politically correct?
Children's books/shows/films usually revolve around children, because that's what children like. Teenagers watch shows about other teenagers, etc etc etc.

Calling comics or their writers racist because they write something you like is a little silly in my opinion. It's not like they just sit down for a brainstorming session, write "No blackies" on a sheet of paper and see where they can go from there.
A good writer writes about stuff that he knows about, so as soon as you start asking a white, christian male to create a muslim character, he'll just draw up a stereotypical bearded man worshipping Allah and probably ending up flying an airplane into a skyscraper sooner or later, because the writer simply doesn't know much about cultures outside his own.

Personally, I couldn't care less what race superheroes are, I don't read comics to be informed about different ethnic groups that inhabit our planet. All I'd say, is that if you're offended by the races depicted in media, you're probably more of a racist than whoever created the content. If you can't even pick up a comic book without thinking "hey let's count black people" you're either really bored, or you're less tolerant toward others than you think you might be.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Storm's usually white except when being played by Halle Berry.

Err, no, no she isn't. She's a black African.

Which, of course, is why Marvel married her off to Black Panther, who is their only other major black superhero, ignoring the personal histories of both characters and the fact that they had barely been hinted to know each other well...

(Black Panther himself is a bit of a cock too, he's basically Doom but with no sense of moral responsibility, so he pulls shit like retaining a cure for AIDS in Wakanda whilst letting 33% of the rest of Africa die of it.)

 

[Takoto]

None of the comics I have anything racist in them... Even some of the more... questionable comics I have don't.

 

[Treblaine]

Marvel aren't racist. Unscrupulous and stupid maybe, but the racist component here is the AUDIENCE who won't buy enough comics about characters they can't identify with racially.

BTW, wasn't Blade a Marvel comic? He is the only black comic-book hero I can even think of.

Also doesn't this happen in every entertainment industry? I mean Ethan Hunt in the original Mission Impossible TV series was black and it was kind-of a big deal back then. But when Ethan Hunt was depicted in the big budget Hollywood re-imagining of Mission Impossible he was now played by a short white guy (Tom Cruise).

While we are at it. For the 1994 Mission Impossible movie, if you were committed to having a black actor portray Ethan Hunt, who would you think would be best for the part?

 

[The_Deleted]

You could argue the same with books, film and game to be fair. If it's a predominantly Caucasian country, chances are the media will reflect that. What we need to do is get away from the idea that the black guy is either a thug or the President. There doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground when it come to representing ethnic groups in white media.

 

[Semitendon]

Agree with him entirely, but he's not really calling comic books racist as much that comic's audiences are too predictable to allow anything other than the norm. But then Marvel is about the most stagnant comics company possible. They've been clinging onto the Marvel Way about 3 decades too long.

Storm from the X-Men, I see what he means though, those are the only ones I can really think of.

Storm's usually white except when being played by Halle Berry.

Storm has always been black. I have personally held the first comic with her appearance in my hands. You have no clue what you are talking about.

In fact, of the comic book characters that have made it into the movies, only two ( that I can think of) have had their race changed. The first was Kingpin in the movie Daredevil. However, I suspect that the reason for the change, was that the best actor for the part was a black man.

The second was Nick Fury in his cameo appearences in the recent marvel flicks. That character was changed because they had Samuel L Jackson in mind when the role was created.


A good guy and a bad guy, both changed from white to black. My GOD !!!! they are RACIST!!!! they are slowly getting rid of all the white people!!!! Bastards.

 

[The_Deleted]

While we are at it. For the 1994 Mission Impossible movie, if you were committed to having a black actor portray Ethan Hunt, who would you think would be best for the part?

There can be only one:


Samuel L muthafuckin' Jackson.

 

[Kiytan]

Most major comic book heros were created in 30's thru the 60's. ie Spiderman, Superman, Batman, Hulk, X-men, and so on. At that time, it was unacceptable to have anything other than white American's as superheros. But, the comic book industry bucked the system and shortly thereafter ( the 60's,70's, and 80s) started placing black characters in lead roles. The characters were attempts to reach an alternative audience. Most of them failed.

So, the concept that comics are inherently racist is false. The most popular heros are white, because they were made at a time when "white" was all there was. The majority of black comic book characters were failures. Why? Several reasons go into this, but the most glaringly obvious one is that black people didn't read the comics.

Sales and good buisness dictate that you must reach your audience. If your audience is young, white, males, then you must find a way to connect with your target. With comic books, this is accomplished by making the hero's white, usually giving their alter ego a bland normal personality. See Spiderman, ( one of the most popular Superheros on the face of the planet) for the best example of this marketing philosophy.

Comic book companies playing to their biggest audience ( white males) is NOT racist, it's good buisness.

Other examples in buisness technique are everywhere. But, for those of you who are blind, or simply think that racism is an exclusivly "white" concept. Watch B.E.T. for two hours. You should pay particular attention to the commercials, tell me how many of the commercials even have a single appearance of a white person? How many of the commercials feature black people? Do the math and figure out the ratio of black people to white people in just two hours of B.E.T. television. In spite of the overwhelming lack of white people, this is not racist, for the same reason that comics aren't racist. It is simply the company tring to appeal to their biggest audience.

Very well said.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Storm's usually white except when being played by Halle Berry.

Ororo Munroe is African. Being a Wind Goddess.

BTW, Nicholas Fisk aka The Kingpin:

Spoiler: Spot The Difference

 

[ADDLibrarian]

Egad? Racism? In Marvel?

Correction: Egad? Racisim? In AMERICA?


Addition: Wiki lists black superheroes for every comic company- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes#Marvel_Comics

 

[Treblaine]

While we are at it. For the 1994 Mission Impossible movie, if you were committed to having a black actor portray Ethan Hunt, who would you think would be best for the part?

There can be only one:


Samuel L muthafuckin' Jackson.

But Sam might just be TOO cool for the one-plucky-agent-who-survives-and-must-prove-his-innocence.


I'm thinking someone a bit more of a chancer, a rouge. Remember, this is a hunted man, forced to go undercover and steal from his own country to prove his innocence and root out a mole!

How about Harold Perrineau who played Michael "WALT" Dawson from Lost? Maybe not.

While we are at it, anyone who says Will Smith deserves to be shot. He is just WAY too nice, his tough guy roles just come off as forced and IMHO he was top of his form in Men In Black that was just the right combination of comedy, cool and action.