Do some gamers want to exclude others from gaming?

[Pink Gregory]

I don't want to exclude people. I do want companies to stop going after the CoD audience. It's happened with franchises from Mass Effect to Resident Evil, and it needs to stop. The majority of CoD players buy one game a year and it's CoD. They aren't interested in Mass Effect 3 and Resident Evil 6, so stop turning RPGs and survival horror into shooters.

I agree completely; if people recognise anything, it is brand, and CoD - independent of personal opinion - is a brand powerhouse. I doubt that Medal of Honor sold anywhere near as many as CoD, while basically being CoD; maybe it's not about the gameplay, but the brand.

It's kind of one of the problems of franchises; brands are expected to deliver consistency, and, well, that's pretty much the complaint about CoD, isn't it? It works as a brand, but that model doesn't really benefit the game.

 

[Frankster]

Only "some" gamers? I recalled the whole zynga participation in march madness and how downright zealous and petty a lot of the escapists where back then aswell as how they treated people who admitted to playing a zynga game.

Then theres the COD hate, the JRPG hate, Sports game hate and yeh it feels very cliquey at times.

And then you got the non sensical hatred of the "casuals", gamers are anything but a likeable bunch in my eyes.

 

[veloper]

In sofar a wider audience means old hands won't be catered to anymore, the casuals can go back to their tv soap operas.

But it's becoming less of an issue lately with tactical, turn-based RPGs having got their Kickstarter fundings many times over and even a pretty decent XCOM game that got released through a normal publisher.

Maybe the industry has finally got a little tired of competing to death over the lowest common denominator.

 

[Legion]

Thought I'd pose a question that's bothering me.

All the talk of 'dumbing down for consoles' and dumbing down in general regardless of how well it's handled, and people whining about what's wrong with the industry relating to the kind of people that enjoy video games; it's making me wonder, do some people actually want to exclude others from this hobby, and why?

I'd like to hear some opinions.

There are those amongst all kinds of cultures (I can speak about the Goth/Punk culture from experience with this one) who often feel that if too many people get into it, it will cease to be "special". That if it becomes too mainstream, they will no longer be unique, and stand out.

These kind of people quite like being the minority, they like standing out, and they like having things niche, rather than trying to cater to the lowest denominator.

While it is a somewhat immature stance, it is understandable to an extent. They want a strong sense of identity and do not like the idea of their culture being "diluted" to the extent that it is just another thing, and ceases to be of any importance.

That's one stance you frequently find among cultures. The term 'poser' gets thrown around a lot by these kind of people.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

I want to exclude PC gamers from having an opinion on anything that isn't PC exclusive. I know you can play Deus Ex at 60FPS, and I don't fucking care. I could too but I already have it for my XboX and I'm not buying it again! Christ, just shut up. Oh, what's that you can't run BF3 at the highest graphics with 60FPS? I can... How'd you like that?!

OT: Some gamers think people should be excluded but they are wrong...

 

[WoW Killer]

It is an issue of resources... people are afraid that the rise of other gaming (such as casual gaming) will shift larger companies to produce for that segment (instead of for their own segment of gaming).

The total resources are increasing year on year though. So even if a greater proportion of gamers are "casual" (if that is even a well defined thing), it doesn't necessarily mean the hardcore market has been reduced. It's like the number of FPS games being churned out feels like it's swamping the industry, but it's not actually reducing the number of RPGs being made. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are a lot more RPGs being made today than there ever have been; there's simply more games in general being made today than there were in previous years.

But I do agree that that is basically what people are afraid of.

 

[shrekfan246]

That's one stance you frequently find among cultures. The term 'poser' gets thrown around a lot by these kind of people.

I believe there's a term for people like that.


I've been gaming for my entire life, and I honestly think some of the best games I've ever played have been released in the last few years.

Do I wish that some of the more niche genres like Space-Combat Sims would return? Yes.

But the prevalence of Indie games, publisher-funded small titles like Journey, the return of Okami in HD, and even the over-abundance of shooters or action-adventure/action-RPG games is really just replacing the over-abundance of 2D-platformers, side-scrolling shooters or RTS games back in the 90's.

Also, "dumbed down" is such a worthless buzz-word. Complexity =/= Depth, and the sooner people realize that the better off we'll all be.

 

[Bostur]

^ Personally, that seems to me like a strange viewpoint (not that you shouldn't have it, s'just as relevant as mine), that you would purchase a game not expecting to see all the content therein.

Until recently I thought it was a strange point of view to expect to see it all. To me that would mean the game was too easy or too short. It makes sense in a game with heavy focus on story, if it's a good story we want to see the ending obviously.

I think some of this is caused by a shift of focus from games heavy on gameplay to games heavy on storytelling. The latter requires that most people are able to finish them causing simplification and easier gameplay.

Personally I prefer to be bad at a game. If I'm bad at it there's room for improvement and reaching the ending will feel like a reward.

 

[lord.jeff]

People fear change and they wanted an enemy to plaster that fear onto.

 

[themind]

There will always be fanboys who insist that the platform they are playing is superior. I always found that to be peculiar. The fanboy never chooses the *wrong* console/PC, and they are always right in their choice.

Avoiding the fanboys alone, some older gamers who remember Atari, NES, MegaDrive, etc have seen the explosion of the video game market as something of a bane. Personally I don't put myself in that category, but I know quite a few friends who ***** about the direction of games today. Personally I think they are just nostalgic fools. Wishing for the NES or SNES days seems like someone watching a BluRay movie to wish they had a VHS copy. Hoping for an 8-Track instead of digital music quality.

The main issue with the explosion of games is that, as other psoters have alluded to, it has led to the watering down of games. The niche market has all but disappeared, except the occasional brave developper. If you want off-the-wall unique games you almost need a PC so you can explore the indy market. I think this is partly why the PC-lovers give the console fans such a hard time. The console fans are forced to play what the publishers offer you, it's either apples, apple pie, or apple tarts. The PC players can try some coconut or some peaches.

The mashing of genres to be a catch-all game (like Resident Evil 6) angers hardcore and long-time gamers. Resident Evil should be a survival horror, not an action game. Fans of the series want to puke in their soup rather than see the sacrilege of a favourite franchise get pissed on. This is happening more and more to game franchises, and it creates a basklash type of reaction against the casual or new gamer that will gobble up Halo or CoD as if it is the epitome of gaming. The majority gamer has become less smart, and far more prone to fall for the catch-all game that "real" gamers see through.

The size of the industry and the obscene amount of money publishers are spending on games has all but killed the niche market and truly unique experiences in the gaming world. I see the exclusionary gamers as being reactionary to the flow of the industry. I think it's bad for games, but that opinion is lost in the sea of "CoD RULZ!", and that is a damn shame.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I don't know about everyone, but the only time I really get annoyed about "dumbing down" is when it's done to a franchise I like, and removing features I like for the purpose of streamlining. An example of this that annoyed me was the removal of the third dialogue option in Mass Effect 3. It irritated me how it made it so you might as well just choose which dialogue path you'd take at the beginning of the game since they're such polar opposites that it just bottlenecked you into being a paragon or renegade, leaving little room for anything between. It might seem like a small issue, but I felt like my character had a personality from the first two games and the more limited dialogue didn't allow for it to be expressed in game

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Not so much dumbing down as getting rid of the crap. These are pc people that like pressing 20 keys just to start a plane engine. lol. Ok, that was the space shuttle game on a pc years ago but you get my point. Games should be fun and enjoyable, not putting up with boring crap, and yes some gamers love that and they also should be catered for. Every ones tastes should be catered for. But nor should you insult someone just cos they enjoy FPS games instead of rpgs, just comes across that your insecure.

As for gaming....everyone should game, i would let everyone game. But, not if it means addiction to playing WOW for 18 hours a day. Should be a part of your life, not your whole life.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

There are those amongst all kinds of cultures (I can speak about the Goth/Punk culture from experience with this one) who often feel that if too many people get into it, it will cease to be "special". That if it becomes too mainstream, they will no longer be unique, and stand out.

These kind of people quite like being the minority, they like standing out, and they like having things niche, rather than trying to cater to the lowest denominator.

While it is a somewhat immature stance, it is understandable to an extent. They want a strong sense of identity and do not like the idea of their culture being "diluted" to the extent that it is just another thing, and ceases to be of any importance.

That's one stance you frequently find among cultures. The term 'poser' gets thrown around a lot by these kind of people.

Will there ever be an age where what we like subjectively will cease to be a dick waving match of how obscure/difficult/complicated/old our preferred media is and start being about the appreciation of that thing? I know im guilty of it to a degree. But im usually fairly accepting of new players in MOABS and the like, i definitely detest the attitude that new people deserve scorn. In music as well "new fans" are usually treated with derision.

Its the same attitude that every generation takes in regards to every other generation:

"The generation before me was too strict and pointless, the generation beneath mine is horrifically rude and impolite! My generation is about 50/50 but obviously im one of the ultra special good ones"

Like this quote:

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint... As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." - Cerca 1278

People love to think the way they do things is the best. That their interests are the most special. That all groups they belong to are special just because they are in them. If that means making sure people dont taint your group and shaming other groups then thats what people do. Im starting to make the horrible realization that 99% of human existence is the pursuit of perceived elitism over your fellow man thats totally unfounded. But obviously im one of the ultra special good ones

The fun thing is some hobbies separate their elitism in different ways:

Elite for just participating for X amount of time per day (in and out groups): "Real" gaming, emo culture and such

Elite for liking the right things within that hobby because the hobby is SO ingrained into society as mainstream: Movies, books, TV things that everyone does always

You would never hear someone say "Youre not a real movie goer", people try and shame others for liking the wrong things and its generally viewed as very snooty. Movies and books have shrugged their elitism off after becoming so common. We all do it so who cares? When games become a mainstream media it will stop. Its already most of the way there.

 

[Erana]

Video games suffer from many people holding the narrow-minded view that a medium or media format can only encompass what it is known for at the time. And while this, of course, leads to some non-gamers insisting that video games are only murder simulators or what have you, this is also a significant problem within video game enthusiasts, manifesting in part with the "games have to be like "x.""

Girls can't play fighting games, because it has always been me and my bros down at the arcade. Moms aren't real gamers because they don't even know the names of all the angry birds. Only the first 151 are real pokemon.
And all of that comes down to the fear of change. If there are any changes, it won't be exactly like it was! But that's all dumb; in today's fast, digital age, you gotta adapt or improve, or else the best you can hope for is to have TresCom for a fanbase.

Even with the Escapist, I was really begrudging about the transformations the community had gone through over the past few years, (different kinds of posts, different mods and moderator styles, more people, losing the tight-knit community feel, etc) but then I realized that, without them, we would have been Warcry.
I'm nearing half a decade of membership here (and already past my fifth anniversary of partaking in the site's content) and I'm thankful for it.

With games, change is good, and unless what we like fails, it is coming. All this exclusivity and elitism is just the darkside of humanity seeping into our high scores and hat collecting.

 

[PinkiePyro]

I think kids under 7-8 years old have no business near consoles
if you want your kid to play educational stuff like math blaster or give them a leap pad console fine

second if it requires or has some sort of live chat (COD,TF2, erc) and your kid is under 15 at the very least supervise them, so we can cut down on all the cursing and derogatory statements

 

[beyondbrainmatter]

Thought I'd pose a question that's bothering me.

All the talk of 'dumbing down for consoles' and dumbing down in general regardless of how well it's handled, and people whining about what's wrong with the industry relating to the kind of people that enjoy video games; it's making me wonder, do some people actually want to exclude others from this hobby, and why?

I'd like to hear some opinions.

It's a psychological thing. When people find something to whine about together, it helps them bond, you know, form meaningful relationships etc. Whining is an inherently social activity.

 

[Defenestra]

Yes, I want to exclude people.

Well, one person.

Ned, you aren't allowed to play anymore. Jerk.

Everyone else, go ahead.