Do some gamers want to exclude others from gaming?

[cidbahamut]

Thought I'd pose a question that's bothering me.

All the talk of 'dumbing down for consoles' and dumbing down in general regardless of how well it's handled, and people whining about what's wrong with the industry relating to the kind of people that enjoy video games; it's making me wonder, do some people actually want to exclude others from this hobby, and why?

I'd like to hear some opinions.

Yes.

Fear of outsiders and the change to the culture that they inevitably bring.

 

[Phasmal]

Duh.
Gaming is full of people who want to exclude others because they were excluded.

Also, I think they worry if games become more accessible then no one will make the games they like any more.

Call me an elitist, but I really wish casuals would just leave gaming all together. Games started going downhill when gaming became (more) mainstream, so I wish it would really become a more specialized hobby again.

So you want 8 bit graphics (or less) and games that are 1/2 hour long?

We are in the golden age here. I have been gaming since I got a colecovision at the ripe old age of 8. Sure games have gotten easier. But they have also become a richer deeper experience. Lets take the biggest complaint against Dragon Age 2. OMG the dungeons were all recycled. That is how most games were back when gaming wasn't mainsteam. Zynga has been around for years. The Wii has been around for years. And in the last month Dishonored was released. Think about it

I'm not quite sure what you quoted me for, there.

 

[McMousey]

FUCK YOU

 

[squid5580]

Duh.
Gaming is full of people who want to exclude others because they were excluded.

Also, I think they worry if games become more accessible then no one will make the games they like any more.

Call me an elitist, but I really wish casuals would just leave gaming all together. Games started going downhill when gaming became (more) mainstream, so I wish it would really become a more specialized hobby again.

So you want 8 bit graphics (or less) and games that are 1/2 hour long?

We are in the golden age here. I have been gaming since I got a colecovision at the ripe old age of 8. Sure games have gotten easier. But they have also become a richer deeper experience. Lets take the biggest complaint against Dragon Age 2. OMG the dungeons were all recycled. That is how most games were back when gaming wasn't mainsteam. Zynga has been around for years. The Wii has been around for years. And in the last month Dishonored was released. Think about it

I'm not quite sure what you quoted me for, there.

I'm not quite sure how you got quoted in there either. But if it makes you feel any better my captcha for this is "it hurts"

 

[AnotherAvatar]

In other words: Fuck our fans, we want money!!!
A sentiment all too common from today's publishers and designers.

Heaven forbid that companies want to make a profit and be successful, right?

Sounds like you have a problem with capitalism, not gaming.

Can't it be both?

Success is such a touted feature in American society and it's always defined by how much money you have in your bank account.

I'd say just about everything in the world (in terms of experience, not possessions) is more important than money. I'd say creating an epic tale that lasts for ages is way more important than making millions of dollars on a minor update to last years biggest first person shooter that no one will remember in a decade.

Fuck Capitalism in it's greedy-gaping-goatsie-sized ass hole, it is in so many ways responsible for almost all of the worlds problems, anyone who can't see that is a blind fool.

 

[Kinguendo]

I dont think anyone should be excluded from gaming, however I do think people who play certain kinds of gamers shouldnt be considered Gamers. Zynga and the like, last time I checked people playing Monopoly and Chess werent considered Gamers.

They are. Unless Monopoly and Chess are somehow now no longer games as considered by the English language definition of it.

They arent. People whos lives revolve around Chess are called the Old and Chess Masters, the people whos lives revolve around Monopoly are called Greedy Capitalist Pigs... and children.

 

[Something Amyss]

Heaven forbid that companies want to make a profit and be successful, right?

You have a good point. After all, Resident Evil was a complete flop before COD: Zombie Ops.

I'm surprised they didn;t go bankrupt before that point. Same with Bioware. I mean, they weren't even trying to make a profit or be successful until DA2 and ME3.

I forgot that the only options for gaming companies were "charity" and "curb stop your fans for profit."

 

[Nieroshai]

Too much to ask, hoping half the posts wouldn't be misanthropic rants about how everyone sucks, or else justification of exclusivity bias. But meh, this is the Escapist. The reason console gaming is doing better than PC gaming is that, except for MMOs, console gaming has caught up to PC gaming in almost every way, but far more accessible. Sure there are super-cooled over-clocked powerhouses out there that can run Crysis at full, but is that necessary for a game to be good, to have the PC experience? If the biggest complaints are the controls and the lack of a graphics slider, PC gamers need to wake up. Those things barely matter. Do you really use more than 16 keys in most games? Not unless you're playing a MMO, and I'm not counting WASD movement, that's bound to a convenient sensitive analog stick. Graphics still an issue? Most gamers out there, even PC gamers, honestly don't care enough about the TINY boost in appearance to justify the need. You can only budge that slider up to your PC's optimal settings anyway, and consoles are already optimized, AND don't have to worry about background process crashing your game or literally anything short of a software bug grinding performance to a halt.

It's time that PC elitists understood that consoles are the mainstay of gaming. PC was an anomaly, it had a temporary boost because household PCs became commonplace and consoles favored volume over quality. Consoles aren't the mere electronic toys of the Sega era anymore, they've caught up in the tech arms race. They're independent, dedicated gaming PCs. All you're doing when you run a PC game is treating your computer like a console.

Errm where to start with this! this is going off topic a little but ill try not to stray too far.

The boost isn't just in visual fidelity, more power = more things on screen and overall larger scale (BF3 is a perfect example, not only were the graphics massively better also had the advantage of larger scale fights with more players).
The controls really do matter to some and for some games the removal of really sensitive aiming and custom hotkeys can completely change a game.

Imagine for an (unrealistic) example 343 studios decided to make HALO 4's main platform the wii. Making the the game amazing on the Wii graphically and control perfectly with the wiimote. Then porting the game to the xbox 360. When you played it you would realise the enemies moved slower to compensate for the imprecise aiming of the wiimote and the graphics seemed bland and lacking detail.

This would make people think that HALO had been dumbed down to cash in on the wii's success.
The same is true for the PC with the consoles. Im not saying the PC is better than consoles, but it is most certainly different, and to call PC gamers wrong is being elitist yourself.

As far as the OP's question goes, no I don't want to exclude anyone from gaming. However to do wish devs wouldn't try to cater to everyone all the time. Now and again it would be nice for them to say we are making this for the fans, we aren't going to make it more accessible, if people want to play it then they can still join the fans, learn and maybe find out why the fans like it the way it is in the first place.

The wii thus becomes a straw man. Your point would be valid if gaming consoles weren't just as powerful as regular computers, if not more so. You really do need to upgrade a PC to make it better than consoles now, and I can't think of a game lately that doesn't have sensitivity tuning on consoles. I've noticed also, that everyone's measuring stick for this kind of thing is multiplayer. Multiplayer isn't all of gaming. Hotkeys are unnecessary in single player, and in shooters they're called face buttons. Tell me the ps3 graphics are bland. Prove to me that games need more than 16 buttons outside MMOs. As for power, have you even looked at ps3 specs? They haven't designed anything for it yet that even uses half its processing power. Some PC gamers never customize hotkeys. Sometimes sensitivity either barely matters, or if you're SPECIFICALLY playing an FPS, the difference is minor and unimportant since everyone is using a controller too. Please list me games from the past 3 years for the PC that not only haven't, but can't be done on console. MMOs are a clear exception, but don't let them be your only standing argument. FPSs, unless you're talking competitive multiplayer, don't need or utilize any of what you deem important.

 

[Nieroshai]

In other words: Fuck our fans, we want money!!!
A sentiment all too common from today's publishers and designers.

Heaven forbid that companies want to make a profit and be successful, right?

Sounds like you have a problem with capitalism, not gaming.

Can't it be both?

Success is such a touted feature in American society and it's always defined by how much money you have in your bank account.

I'd say just about everything in the world (in terms of experience, not possessions) is more important than money. I'd say creating an epic tale that lasts for ages is way more important than making millions of dollars on a minor update to last years biggest first person shooter that no one will remember in a decade.

Fuck Capitalism in it's greedy-gaping-goatsie-sized ass hole, it is in so many ways responsible for almost all of the worlds problems, anyone who can't see that is a blind fool.

Try existing as a business without profit. The only way for businesses to stay open without making a profit, and the only way to grow without profit to grow with, is government ownership. Government ownership is monopoly. I think you should analyze how much of what you need, how many of your comforts you can't live without, would either not exist or not be affordable without capitalism. Think to yourself how much of your own precious system is moving towards capitalism to save itself from drowning because it's trying to live in the first world with second world government.

 

[Kukakkau]

Singleplayer gaming - I couldn't care who plays
Multiplayer - same thing I say for the internet, there should be an aptitude/behaviour test you have to take to see if you are allowed to use it

 

[AnotherAvatar]

In other words: Fuck our fans, we want money!!!
A sentiment all too common from today's publishers and designers.

Heaven forbid that companies want to make a profit and be successful, right?

Sounds like you have a problem with capitalism, not gaming.

Can't it be both?

Success is such a touted feature in American society and it's always defined by how much money you have in your bank account.

I'd say just about everything in the world (in terms of experience, not possessions) is more important than money. I'd say creating an epic tale that lasts for ages is way more important than making millions of dollars on a minor update to last years biggest first person shooter that no one will remember in a decade.

Fuck Capitalism in it's greedy-gaping-goatsie-sized ass hole, it is in so many ways responsible for almost all of the worlds problems, anyone who can't see that is a blind fool.

Try existing as a business without profit. The only way for businesses to stay open without making a profit, and the only way to grow without profit to grow with, is government ownership. Government ownership is monopoly. I think you should analyze how much of what you need, how many of your comforts you can't live without, would either not exist or not be affordable without capitalism. Think to yourself how much of your own precious system is moving towards capitalism to save itself from drowning because it's trying to live in the first world with second world government.

Capitalism isn't the only system that allows for thriving businesses, there aren't just two options, it's not Capitalism vs. Communism. What makes Capitalism disgusting is how it treats the corporations as more important than the people they serve and who work at them. I'm a huge fan of democracy, but that's not something you can have with capitalism as capitalism eats, with it's massive piles of money and it's mind-set of greed for everyone, every other system you might place it with.

Plus, I'd rather have a bunch of honest, government run businesses (if we could trust the government, which would be a lot easier without lobbyists not seeping out of their every orifice) than three money-hungry multinationals owning fucking everything and continuously asking for more because they are REQUIRED TO NO MATTER HOW SUCCESSFUL THEY ALREADY ARE.

Wanting more than you need is a mental disorder, therefore capitalism very basic nature is FUCKING INSANE by definition. And if you don't see the problem with it then maybe you too need to have your head examined.


Also... "Think to yourself how much of your own precious system is moving towards capitalism to save itself from drowning because it's trying to live in the first world with second world government." The fuck does this mean? I'm American... I wallow in the hell that is Capitalism every fucking day man, that's why I speak out against it so strongly.

 

[Nieroshai]

In other words: Fuck our fans, we want money!!!
A sentiment all too common from today's publishers and designers.

Heaven forbid that companies want to make a profit and be successful, right?

Sounds like you have a problem with capitalism, not gaming.

Can't it be both?

Success is such a touted feature in American society and it's always defined by how much money you have in your bank account.

I'd say just about everything in the world (in terms of experience, not possessions) is more important than money. I'd say creating an epic tale that lasts for ages is way more important than making millions of dollars on a minor update to last years biggest first person shooter that no one will remember in a decade.

Fuck Capitalism in it's greedy-gaping-goatsie-sized ass hole, it is in so many ways responsible for almost all of the worlds problems, anyone who can't see that is a blind fool.

Try existing as a business without profit. The only way for businesses to stay open without making a profit, and the only way to grow without profit to grow with, is government ownership. Government ownership is monopoly. I think you should analyze how much of what you need, how many of your comforts you can't live without, would either not exist or not be affordable without capitalism. Think to yourself how much of your own precious system is moving towards capitalism to save itself from drowning because it's trying to live in the first world with second world government.

Capitalism isn't the only system that allows for thriving businesses, there aren't just two options, it's not Capitalism vs. Communism. What makes Capitalism disgusting is how it treats the corporations as more important than the people they serve and who work at them. I'm a huge fan of democracy, but that's not something you can have with capitalism as capitalism eats, with it's massive piles of money and it's mind-set of greed for everyone, every other system you might place it with.

Plus, I'd rather have a bunch of honest, government run businesses (if we could trust the government, which would be a lot easier without lobbyists not seeping out of their every orifice) than three money-hungry multinationals owning fucking everything and continuously asking for more because they are REQUIRED TO NO MATTER HOW SUCCESSFUL THEY ALREADY ARE.

Wanting more than you need is a mental disorder, therefore capitalism very basic nature is FUCKING INSANE by definition. And if you don't see the problem with it then maybe you too need to have your head examined.


Also... "Think to yourself how much of your own precious system is moving towards capitalism to save itself from drowning because it's trying to live in the first world with second world government." The fuck does this mean? I'm American... I wallow in the hell that is Capitalism every fucking day man, that's why I speak out against it so strongly.

Interesting. I didn't know we had an ascetic in our midst. I respect a man who lives off the land, walks to work, and only owns what's necessary to survival. I also respect that you posted in this forum from a public library. I wonder, though, why you're posting on an entertainment site. You don't need entertainment, and you can always make your own.

 

[krazykidd]

Which means that my prefered genre is becoming niche , while dozens of shooters are gettig made .

Were you playing games in the pre-PS1 era?

Before FFVII, JRPGs were niche titles. They were critically acclaimed, but still niche.
They were expensive (FFVI was $99 in Canada) and the supplies were limited (if they were published at all). So many didn't leave Japan or the English port was released 1 to 2 years later...

Then Cloud fought Sephiroth and JRPGs went mainstream. Suddenly, there were affordable JRPGs of all shapes and sizes and there were plentiful copies of each. More were imported than ever before. They were released to the world very soon after hitting Japan. Good times. The PS2 continued this craze largely uncontested.

Then something happened. I hesitate to point fingers, but let's just say Microsoft's strategy early this gen, was to purchase the exclusive rights for big JRPG releases in order to increase its own exposure in Asia. The Xbox fanboys in the West lorded it over PS3 owners as this was pretty big. But, Microsoft's plan for Asia actually failed miserably. Not long after, JRPGs became hugely unpopular in the West...

The only difference between the 8 and 16 bit eras and this one, there are now more gamers (for lack of a better word - the casual market), there is a Western hardware developer in the market and the Western critics now pan most JRPGs.

Don't let it detract you though. Things tend to be cyclical.

What you say is true , thing is my "main" gaming years was in the ps1 + era , seeing as i'm 23 now . I did play games before that , i was introduced the jrpgs ( or videogames in general) at the age of 3 by my father with final fantasy, and have been a fan ever since ( which makes Square's fall from grace quite painful to watch , but that's another topic ). So when i started being able to play more jrpgs and understand them better and buy some with pocket money i was in the time when jrpgs were plentiful and had 50+ hours of gameplay , a shit ton of extras . So going from long lists of jrpgs to scarcely any hurts the jrpg fan in me .

But i wholehartedly agree with your post , like i said , i'm a tad bit bitter .

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Nobody should be excluded from gaming but games shouldn't have to de-fang to appeal to an audience they're not meant for. On the flip side I think there are games that could have been edited in such a way to appeal to more people (like Fable: take away condoms and you have a T rated game).

Personally though I don't care who plays video games: I play offline and, single player almost exclusively so I'm almost completely unaffected by fan bases and stupid people.