Do the Devil May Cry fans have a right to complain about the new DMC?

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Jul 5, 2009
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To say Dante has no character or isnt fleshed out is false, but he is fairly cliched I will admit. I fell head over heals in love with Dante when i first played numbet one several years ago when it came out. Hell I even kinda liked two, it was just Dante further on down the line. But despite what this Dante looks like I'm going to give them the benifite of the doubt. If they are just changing Dante completly for lulz then fuck Ninja theory. But if they are exploring Dante's past and how he devloped his powers or this is an imposter in a much grander scheme then that should be interesting too.
 

Infernai

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Shark Wrangler said:
I think judging something before you play it makes you look retarded. Hate how nerds think they can write the story better than the people that created it, or are currently working on it. I can't stand it when people express their opinions like they are the absolute truth. I think it will probably be okay and we shouldn't worry right now.
Did i say i could write the story better at any point in the post? No...hell, i can't actually make that argument even if i wanted too as Ninja theory hasn't even revealed what the fucking story actually is about.

I can understand the rest of the post well enough, but..i just kind of felt i should point that out cause i never actually said anywhere at any point i could write the story better then they could.
 

Swifty1992

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Alright, straight off the bat let me say this is a well put together post and a cohesive set of arguments. I also want to point out that while I haven't played any of the Devil May Cry games, I've always thought Dante was a cool character, and I'm looking forward to the HD Collection.

Regardless, I felt I should weigh in on three of your points.

First of all, as someone has already pointed out, your mental attitude towards things changes as you mature and it's possible (likely even) that Dante may not be at a point where he's fully over what has happened. The change for me seems like the Dante you see in these short snippets are a Dante in the first stages of dealing with it. He's angry, and upset. He snaps because he's not in a good place. The Dante you see in the other games looks to me like he's worked past it. That's not to say he isn't affected by it, but he's sort of removed from it.

I prefer the type of marketing that Ninja Theory is trying with DMC. I prefer most story elements of games I play to be a surprise for me, because I want to consume that organically as I progress. Take for example Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Towards the very start of the game Adam Jensen is trying to protect a scientist when he's essentially brutalized to the point of death. Having already seen it in the marketing, when I came across it in the actual game it made more sense given the grounding of the world itself and the context, but it had lost the element of surprise that I knew would have really sold it. I realize that I might be an exception to the rule, but I'd rather be shown a lot of gameplay footage than key story moments.

The section on the developers being assholes is just plain poorly researched. You say the developers believe DMC fans are responsible for Enslaved sales as a fact, whereas it's an opinion piece by a third party that pulls no quotes from the developer. I should also point out that PR companies are not as closely affiliated with the developers as you assume. They're hired by the publishers, who want to get the word out about their product. In addition, you claim that NT threw fans to the ground and hurled insults at them at every chance whereas the only article you linked to that was the developers talking was them saying that they've been working closely with Capcom Japan to figure out the character designs. In fact, they even said that it's their job to make you feel like it belongs in the DMC series. That's not a developer that doesn't care. That's a developer that's going out on a limb (along with Capcom Japan, who you really need to include in your grievances) and who admits it. It may not look like much of a DMC game now, but wait until you play it they're effectively saying.

I guess to illustrate my example here, I want to bring up Wind Waker which had fans everywhere crying blue murder about what they were doing to Zelda. When the game actually came out, it was an extremely fun game that kept the essence of the franchise but moved it in an entirely different direction.

I feel that I've rambled for long enough now and my post seems to be getting less and less focused so I'll wrap it up now.
 

rogue_salty

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Aug 30, 2011
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Swifty1992 said:
Alright, straight off the bat let me say this is a well put together post and a cohesive set of arguments. I also want to point out that while I haven't played any of the Devil May Cry games, I've always thought Dante was a cool character, and I'm looking forward to the HD Collection.

Regardless, I felt I should weigh in on three of your points.

First of all, as someone has already pointed out, your mental attitude towards things changes as you mature and it's possible (likely even) that Dante may not be at a point where he's fully over what has happened. The change for me seems like the Dante you see in these short snippets are a Dante in the first stages of dealing with it. He's angry, and upset. He snaps because he's not in a good place. The Dante you see in the other games looks to me like he's worked past it. That's not to say he isn't affected by it, but he's sort of removed from it.

I prefer the type of marketing that Ninja Theory is trying with DMC. I prefer most story elements of games I play to be a surprise for me, because I want to consume that organically as I progress. Take for example Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Towards the very start of the game Adam Jensen is trying to protect a scientist when he's essentially brutalized to the point of death. Having already seen it in the marketing, when I came across it in the actual game it made more sense given the grounding of the world itself and the context, but it had lost the element of surprise that I knew would have really sold it. I realize that I might be an exception to the rule, but I'd rather be shown a lot of gameplay footage than key story moments.

The section on the developers being assholes is just plain poorly researched. You say the developers believe DMC fans are responsible for Enslaved sales as a fact, whereas it's an opinion piece by a third party that pulls no quotes from the developer. I should also point out that PR companies are not as closely affiliated with the developers as you assume. They're hired by the publishers, who want to get the word out about their product. In addition, you claim that NT threw fans to the ground and hurled insults at them at every chance whereas the only article you linked to that was the developers talking was them saying that they've been working closely with Capcom Japan to figure out the character designs. In fact, they even said that it's their job to make you feel like it belongs in the DMC series. That's not a developer that doesn't care. That's a developer that's going out on a limb (along with Capcom Japan, who you really need to include in your grievances) and who admits it. It may not look like much of a DMC game now, but wait until you play it they're effectively saying.

I guess to illustrate my example here, I want to bring up Wind Waker which had fans everywhere crying blue murder about what they were doing to Zelda. When the game actually came out, it was an extremely fun game that kept the essence of the franchise but moved it in an entirely different direction.

I feel that I've rambled for long enough now and my post seems to be getting less and less focused so I'll wrap it up now.
ppl are failing to see the point ITS NOT DMC ANY MORE they changed dantes looks and personalty and attitude(not dante any more) and the hole back story half angel half demon thing(the dumbest thing i'v ever heard i mean how the hell could that give birth to a human looking punk) the environment and the enemies the demons what ever u want to call them and the hole alternative realty thing, and the demons secretly running the world thing(i guess no sparda because he defeated the demons and closed hells gate).
so tell me wheres devil may cry in all that,dont know if its going to suck or not(it looks like its going to suck based on what i saw and NT record)the point is this is not devil may cry and if ur going to argue that this is reboot and hes still half demon on that logic i can call lots of things devil may cry like super natural and sam is dante because of the demon blood, a reboot is fix some aspects not changing the whole thing.
so dont try to convince ur self that this game is devil may cry,and the lead developer is a dick he looks like a dick talks like a dick look at his hair for for gods sake, thers no way in hell im going to listen to him talking about what cool is i dont want to know that kind of cool and capcom says there involved but i cant see any of capcom in this game nothing at all what do u think
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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I'm afraid it's not a matter of rights. It's more a case of "Can you stop them?", and your answer is basically a flat-out NO.
 

Swifty1992

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Dec 12, 2008
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rogue_salty said:
the lead developer is a dick he looks like a dick talks like a dick look at his hair for for gods sake
This right here is why I've disregarded your opinion. You're obviously trolling.
 

rogue_salty

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Aug 30, 2011
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Swifty1992 said:
rogue_salty said:
the lead developer is a dick he looks like a dick talks like a dick look at his hair for for gods sake
This right here is why I've disregarded your opinion. You're obviously trolling.
first of all if u mean i shouldn't judge ppl by there appearance in most cases ur right,but hes the lead designer and designers tend to show some of there identity and personalty and taste in there work, so yes what he looks like matters.second what the hell is "trolling".
 

Denariax

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Nov 3, 2010
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You have a right to complain, but the complaints are invalid by a single reason.

People hate change.

Personally I think people hate it because its a 'cool to hate' thing, because thats what I heard a few times. Me? I've played each DMC, beaten each, and had fun with each; And when I say each I mean I have DMC 1, 2, and 3, plus SE, and have 4 on all available consoles; including PC and iPhone. I'll have fun.
 

Sgt. Dante

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Yopaz said:
I hope you're aware of that the newest Legend of Zelda game is almost 6 years old, then there's a 4 year gap before the one before then 3 years for a Zelda game that can't be compared to anything else.

OT: I don't want the game any less because of they way it looks. When a developer actually tries to renew things I always think that's a good thing. Even in the case of the Sonic games. Sure, they might not do good things, but they don't repeat themselves completely for every game. I think this could be a good game, but hey only time will show.
Sir, I think that you'll find that you're talking out your ass.



I love DMC, have since the first, and the other 2 in the series were great (weird how they never made DMC2) but the big problem that I have with this is that it's not Dante.

This would be like, in the above example, taking the Zelda franchise and making a game that has basically the same gameplay and story elements then revelaing this to be your main character,


This character is basically an elf which means that he could be hylian, put him in a green tunic and he could be link right? But we'll give him a tattoo and a katana to make him appeal to a wider audience. Kids love tattoos and katanas, makes them look badass.

This would not be a Zelda game,it would be a game that would invariably be compared to zelda and said to have ripped-off zelda but zelda it isn't. The problem with putting what is essentially a new character into an established franchise is that fans like what they know and if they DID make this exact same game but called it anything but DMC then fans probably wouldn't have cared all that much. The only reason this is a DMC game is to leech off the popularity of that franchise because NEW LP's are risky, publishers try to stick with games till they have almost double digits becuase familiarity brings sales.

And that is MY problem with this, it's not DMC, it's a new LP looking to use the DMC name to boost it's sales.
 

Zantos

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Jan 5, 2011
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I agree, although apparently I can't talk considering I thought Dante looked better in DMC4 than previous games. But the person saying that was a certified bellend.

I think the game has great potential and does look really good, but they just seem to be tacking it on to an existing popular franchise for no real reason. I'm slightly reminded of what they're doing now with Bioshock, it looks like a great game in itself but you could name it something completely different and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.
 

teqrevisited

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Mar 17, 2010
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Yes. The post has said it all. That and the co-founder of Ninja Theory is a narcissist, made plain for all to see in the "reimagining" of what they are describing as Dante.
 

SageRuffin

M-f-ing Jedi Master
Dec 19, 2009
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I'm one of those weird people that's gonna reserve judgement until I'm able to personally demo the game myself, but it's looking less appealing with every news feed and trailer I watch. The gameplay looks clunky, "Ultimate Dante" is... well, I think everyone has harped on him enough so I won't say anything, and the project lead comes off as a colossal jackass.

So my expectations aren't but so high (which may be a good thing in the grand scheme of things, but who know?).

Astounding post, by the way. Very nice use of current events and such. :)
 

targren

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May 13, 2009
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b3nn3tt said:
Well, actually, I suppose, yes, there is absolutely nothing to prevent fans from complaining about it. But at the end of the day, developers don't make games for the fans. They make games the way they want to make them, as is their prerogative. If people don't like it, there is nothing forcing them to play the new game.
Wow. You're the same sort of delusional that the GRRM fans are when they say that the fans' opinions are irrelevant. Protip: Games are commercial ventures, which means they're made to make money, no matter what the developers want. If the fans don't like it, they don't make money, and they have failed.

That's why for every Psychonauts or Catherine, we get 45 Medal of Duty and Honor chest-high wall fests, and why no one can apparently make more than 1 JRPG before reverting to populating their game entirely with androgynous waifs (I'm looking at you, Mistwalker!).
 

phantasmalWordsmith

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Oct 5, 2010
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Well of course we have a right to complain. Whether it's justified or not is a different matter

I myself am not sure what to think since this will be my first DMC game but I've read about the usual DMC. I know people like darker and edgier but I liked DMC because while the setting was kinda dark and edgy, the hero was quite lively and bright. I liked Ivory, Ebony and Rebellion. Ivory and Ebony looked to me like a direct reflection on Dante. And I liked Rebellion for one reason alone; I really like skulls and skeletal themes.

Also, I agree completely on the half angel/half demon/all marty stu from a terrible fan-fiction. But it could be worse. He could be a demon/angel/dragon/vampire/wolf/blah blah whatever
 

b3nn3tt

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May 11, 2010
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targren said:
b3nn3tt said:
Well, actually, I suppose, yes, there is absolutely nothing to prevent fans from complaining about it. But at the end of the day, developers don't make games for the fans. They make games the way they want to make them, as is their prerogative. If people don't like it, there is nothing forcing them to play the new game.
Wow. You're the same sort of delusional that the GRRM fans are when they say that the fans' opinions are irrelevant. Protip: Games are commercial ventures, which means they're made to make money, no matter what the developers want. If the fans don't like it, they don't make money, and they have failed.

That's why for every Psychonauts or Catherine, we get 45 Medal of Duty and Honor chest-high wall fests, and why no one can apparently make more than 1 JRPG before reverting to populating their game entirely with androgynous waifs (I'm looking at you, Mistwalker!).
I don't actually know what GRRM is.

Regardless of whether or not the existing DMC fans like the look of the new game, Capcom obviously believe that it can make money, hence why they are making it. No game is made if people don't think money can be made from it. But to take that further and expand on what I originally said, fans have no claim of ownership towards games. It's the same towards films, music, basically any entertainment industry. At the end of the day, the decisions lie with the people making the product in question. If they want to listen to fans, they obviously have every right, but if they choose to completely disregard them then that is also their prerogative. If the game (to keep this on a single topic) changes drastically, then it is likely to gain a lot of new fans, who will replace (financially) the fans of how the game used to be.

So yes, fans have every right to complain, but they shouldn't be too surprised if their complaints go unheeded.