Do we give some devs/games a little too much forgiveness on certain problems?

[Doclector]

I just had another little falling out with skyrim. After a lengthy session of inventory management and quite a bit of travelling, I got killed and had about an hour of progress stolen from me. Yes, it could be my fault that I didn't save, but I didn't want to. I don't like having too many saves for one character, and the less far back my saves go, the higher a chance I have of running into a glitch that I can't undo.

So I decided to take a break from skyrim. I'm not DONE with it, to be sure, but I was done coping with its issues for the time being. Still, I said to myself "I shouldn't get too angry. Glitchiness and coping with said glitchiness is par for the course with bethesda games".

And that got me thinking. Do we just let some companies get away with far too much?

We let bethesda get away with buggy releases that would cause a shitstorm for other companies, but we let it slide because of the impressive scope and ambition of their games. So far, I'd say yes, it is worth coping with, but do we give them too much of a free pass?

We probably do it with other games, hell, we probably all have our own little excuses set up with some of our favourite games companies.

Personally, I think that sometimes, one element of the game being really good can excuse other elements failing in ways that would doom other games...to a point. I mean, there's state of decay, for example. It has great ideas, a feeling of an apocalyptic setting in which you are woefully outnumbered by the undead, encouraging players to use stealth when scavenging rather than going in all guns blazing, but...jesus christ, the game is so buggy that I'm actually afraid to play it. There's been all sorts of stuff reported, some things which forced people to start all over again. I'm left sitting here hoping I'll eventually be able to play it again without being afraid that it'll all fall to pieces the moment I touch it. I'm sorry undead labs, you seem like great guys and god knows, what little I played of state of decay I loved, but this just isn't acceptable.

 

[Lilani]

And that got me thinking. Do we just let some companies get away with far too much?

Looking at the way the entire gaming community is happy to dogpile on EA the moment it's rumored they stepped on an ant, I think in general the answer is no. When people like a company and what it makes they're more forgiving of its flaws. Skyrim could have probably used a timed autosave system, that saves every 10 or 15 or 20 minutes, or even a timer you can set yourself (and have it shut off during big boss fights so you can't use it to cheat).

But, TES fans love Bethesda and for the most part they loved Skyrim. So naturally flaws are going to get overlooked and forgiven, because even with those flaws their experience is a net positive. While it is important to look at things objectively and not ignore flaws, it's also important to factor in the whole experience to keep things in perspective. Because a game is a complete experience, not just a handful of features. There have always been games with flaws and glitches, and there always will be. If we allow ourselves to take these out of context and beat devs in the face every time they appear, then all we're doing is telling them everything we don't want and nothing that we DO want, which can be just as damaging to how they approach to future projects.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I think Valve is given just a bit too much slack when it comes to "Valve Time." There's taking your time, and then there's just...okay, I've had enough.

Completely agree with you about Bethesda getting a get-out-of-jail-semi-free card in terms of bugs in their games, but at least they try to fix them as fast as they possibly can. Well, in terms of the PC and 360 anyway. Still, they did finally get around to the PS3...

Can't really think of other game companies that get away with stuff that they shouldn't, or that we should at least be calling them out on more often. I can think of TONS of stuff that people need to lay off of companies for though.

 

[Zhukov]

No... not really?

At least I can't think of any examples off the top of me head.

Hell, I think I'm more likely to try extra hard to find fault with a game I am predisposed to dislike rather than the other way around.

On that note, I suspect you're going to get more than a few people using this thread to grind their personal axes. "Ohh yes! Dev X gets forgiven for Problem Y all the time, but they actually suck. Totally overrated!"

Also, while I'm no fan of the game, my Skyrim experience was actually almost entirely bug-free. I remember getting stuck on the geometry a couple of times and the AI's pathfinding was a bit flimsy, but that was about the extent of it. Maybe I was just lucky.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I think that's a tough question to answer. The gamung community loves to insta-hate on some things, but I do feel that there is definitely a corresponding unexplainable insta-love that exists as well. Companies like Bethesda do get away with releasing content in far worse shape than they should be. And companies like Valve get a free pass on almost anything they do. There's even individual games like BioShock Infinite that fail on many levels but get a free pass because they do one thing right.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

In the case of Bethesda and Skyrim in particular, I'd say so. I understand that some bugs cannot be avoided in such an open world setting, but when the main quest is broken for most people when the game is released (PC version, at least), something is wrong. It really seems like they release a somewhat working game, and expect the fans to mod the bugs out.

As for your save problem, isn't there an option to auto save when in a menu for too long?

 

[J Tyran]

As for your save problem, isn't there an option to auto save when in a menu for too long?

Skyrim should autosave when you open the menu every once every 15 mins, so if you open it a hundred times in 15 mins it would only save once.

As for the OP I am getting a whiff of exaggeration here, traveling for an hour? You can very nearly get from one end of Skyrim to the other in that time, so you didn't open the UI (favourites too) once or go inside anywhere yet you had to travel the equivalent distance from Markarth to say Windhelm?

 

[Bruno Aste]

bethesda is actually a top notch developer, even if there's the occasional glitch that's to be expected in a game that spans the size of a whole country, which is what they have been doing since Daggerfall in the 90s.

they're out of everyone's league.



on the other hand there's people defending Piranha games Inc for the travesty known as mechwarrior online that will inevitably kill the mechwarrior franchise in the following months.



so in the case of bethesda cut them some slack.

in the case of piranha games, they should go to jail.
seriously, their business practices are so shady Bryan Eckman should be in jail by now, i urge anyone who's spent money on MWO and is canadian to file a complaint to the proper authorities, because it is justified and necesary.

and it isn't like the developers of "the War Z" where they actually apologized for their bait and switch and refunds were made.
(i hope those guys at least paid a fine though)

 

[omega 616]

No!

In fact It think a lot of the time the gaming community is far too harsh, my biggest example is the "mass effect 2 is the far superior mass effect" thread in which (unless I am misunderstanding) a couple of people said the whole franchise is ruined 'cos 3 was so bad. They are literally saying Mass effect 2 is bad 'cos mass effect 3 is bad.

"EA is the worst company in America" really? Banks have put you trillions of debt but high up bankers get paid thousands, sometimes even millions in bonuses (not only getting paid dizzying amounts, they get about $122,000 extra. The average income in America is $50,000) there are probably other really bad companies but EA is the worst for some minor infractions against gamers?

Jennifer Hepler was mailed death threats on her family over bad writing, sounds like something FOX news would accuse the middle east of doing.

 

[Hero of Lime]

Not really, it seems like these days, gamers are ready to pounce on developers in a heart beat. Even for things that have little to do with the actual game, like all the controversies that have come out recently. I think developers need to be challenged sometimes, I think we have the right to call them out on stupid decisions. However we have to understand they aren't mind readers who can satisfy everyone and make nothing but perfect games.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

I wish people complaining about bugs in games need to realize you can't make a game glitch/bug free, and the bigger it is the more bugs will pop up. Try to make a game for yourself, and see how easy it can be. Bad choices are one thing because you made those choices to put in your game, but trying to iron out every bug is almost impossible because most products are tested in a vacuum and will never have to usefulness as real world testing.

 

[Doclector]

As for your save problem, isn't there an option to auto save when in a menu for too long?

Skyrim should autosave when you open the menu every once every 15 mins, so if you open it a hundred times in 15 mins it would only save once.

As for the OP I am getting a whiff of exaggeration here, traveling for an hour? You can very nearly get from one end of Skyrim to the other in that time, so you didn't open the UI (favourites too) once or go inside anywhere yet you had to travel the equivalent distance from Markarth to say Windhelm?

Well...I DO think it's your fault for not saving. You don't need to make separate save files for everything, just have a main save, an autosave and one quicksave.

Well, I heard that a problem can occur with autosaves becoming corrupt and causing freezing issues. So, on multiple recommendations made on the bethesda forums, I disabled them. I have ten manual saves for this one character alone. Truth be told, it wouldn't usually be this bad, but I had one really long, difficult quest beforehand. Over half of my saves were already taken up by that. Oh, and there was an awful lot of inventory management and combat. Encumberance creep, man. All those little things like potions, soul gems and stuff, all teaming up to just eat your inventory space. And being the paranoid type, I hate to be caught without a potion that I might have needed.

Honestly, the story isn't that important. It's just how I got to thinking on this topic.