Do you buy used entertainment/media?

[spartan231490]

I was looking at CDs on Amazon and noticed how much cheaper pre-owned CDs are.It got me thinking about the whole used games debate, piracy and such. Usually in these kinds of discussions people that pirate things are called scum of the earth, skidmarks on the underwear of society etc. When buying used stuff the original creators/publisher/whatever usually don't see a penny of the money, which is essentially the same effect that piracy has.

actually no, it's a very different thing than piracy. When you sell a used product, one item was bought from the creator, and one person has said material. In piracy, there was 1 or even 0 items purchased from the creator that turn into and hundreds or thousands of people using the material. Piracy is not remotely similar to used sales. Used car sales don't kill the car industry.

the We can get caught up in the differences such as that the original media changes hands in used sales whereas with piracy it does not but at the end of the day the result is the same, the content creator loses potential revenue.

no he doesn't. If a person buys a used game, it is because they weren't willing to buy it for full price. In fact, used sales result in more sales for the creator, because it results in people who otherwise wouldn't have played the game doing so. Then, if they like the game, they're more likely to buy other games or sequels from that creator. There is no potential revenue being lost because those people weren't going to buy the game new anyway.

I'm curious as to whether people view used buyers in the same light as pirates.

Question 1: Do you buy used books, dvds, blu rays, games music etc?

Question 2: What are your feelings regarding the used media market?

Spoiler: My thoughts

OT: 1) yes.
2) Used media markets are good for content creators, it's extra publicity at no cost to them. They already sold that copy of the game, and it's a lot better for them if that game is played by someone else rather than sitting in someone's "completed games" pile.
I myself don't buy used because the only physical media that I buy are CDs and I just can't do without that "new cd smell". In a perfect world my buying new would directly support the artist but lets face it, chances are that artists get a nominal percentage of the sale and it goes directly to the record company. As a consumer the smart move would be to buy used and send money directly to the artist in a card but it's unlikely that The Who or Pink Floyd are going to need our twenty pounds. As for what I think about the used market and those that use it, I don't have an opinion it(call me a cop out)

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Only if there isn't a new version available such as game that are no longer available through retail except though the used market. There's just something about getting it brand new and untouched that I can't quite put my finger on.
I don't have a problem with the used market after all sometimes it's the only way to get your hands on old games/media. Besides the idea of reselling merchandise is perfectly acceptable in most other industries.

 

[DEAD34345]

I used to buy used games all the time, but now I mainly play games on the PC so it's less of an option. When possible though, it's cheaper and works the same, so why not?

Yes, it causes the original creator to receive less profit, but... so? I always laugh when people point this out as though it's some horrible thing that must be prevented at all costs, with regards to both buying used and piracy. Perhaps I'm just a horrible person, but ensuring one random corporation receives my money rather than some other random corporation is far, far lower on my list of priorities than ensuring I don't pay more for the same product. With Indie developers I'm slightly more sympathetic, but still not quite enough to genuinely give a damn.

 

[Alterego-X]

actually no, it's a very different thing than piracy. When you sell a used product, one item was bought from the creator, and one person has said material. In piracy, there was 1 or even 0 items purchased from the creator that turn into and hundreds or thousands of people using the material.

Though this only differentiates the scenario of everyone trying to pirate everything, from that of everyone trying to buy everything used.

You are right, in that the latter is not possible.

But it doesn't follow from this that an act of used buying one game is better for the industry an act of pirating the same game.

Consider this. You and I both have $60, and desire to buy three promising games.

You buy each of them used for $20 each. I pirate all three as they are released, then a week later buy the best one new for $60.

You haven't paid a cent to the industry, I paid $60. Not to mention, that compared to someone who waited for Steam price drops, I tested all three and paid for the best one only, thus incentivizing the creation of more like that one, and not rewarding the ones with deceptive hype.

If a person buys a used game, it is because they weren't willing to buy it for full price. In fact, used sales result in more sales for the creator, because it results in people who otherwise wouldn't have played the game doing so. Then, if they like the game, they're more likely to buy other games or sequels from that creator. There is no potential revenue being lost because those people weren't going to buy the game new anyway.

All of these can be true for pirates, but with the added benefit of not having thrown money at the redundant institution of used game stores, they can still send that to the creators too.

 

[The_Great_Galendo]

I buy used often enough, when the price compares favorably to the quality of the item. I don't buy used when the difference between the new and used prices is minimal (say, less that 15%), because it's worth it to me to spend a little bit extra and have a new copy.

I rarely buy digital, except with video games, where the prices are (sometimes) much cheaper than new or used, and the convenience is similar, since I don't have any used game stores nearby.

Buying used doesn't bother me at all from a "giving money to the creator" standpoint. The way I look at it, buying used does give money to the creator, just indirectly. When people buy used, the average price of other used items on the market goes up, which makes buying new more attractive. Other people will then be more inclined to buy new than to buy used, so some fraction of the money they spend that goes to the creator is because of my used purchase raising the price of used items. So I'm effectively giving a fraction of my used purchase to the creator, just not the whole thing.

That, and I figure that most content creators have enough money already; the few cents they miss out on from my purchase doesn't nearly justify me spending several dollars more on an item. Author's royalties are usually something like 3-5%, if I recall correctly, which is maybe about a dollar on a new hardbound book. I imagine the other entertainment industries are similar. Hardly enough to lose any sleep over.

 

[Batou667]

1) Absolutely. I buy lots of games and books preowned.

2) I have no feelings. Should I? I've never been one to subscribe to simplistic notions of piracy literally and directly taking food out of the dev's children's mouths. Whatever form of media you care to look at is a big, big system with plenty of grey areas already. If my purchasing habits differ slightly from the mainstream, meh, the system is big enough and resilient enough to lumber on and continue making money.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

Years and years ago before I had a job I would buy some used CDs that my friends didn't want anymore. There used to be a huge book fair in the next city over that had thousands upon thousands of used books that were dirt cheap. I remember walking out with like 12 books for about $20, and it was awesome.

Nowadays I really don't buy used media much anymore. I've only bought two used games ever and that's only because I wasn't sure if I'd like them and I didn't want to be screwed out of $60 for a shit game.

 

[WindKnight]

Yes. To be blunt, I don't have a lot of spare money, and I need to make what I have go a long way. I tend to rely a lot on sales, second hand and bargain bins at the moment.

 

[soren7550]

Hell yeah I buy used. I'm a poor ass, so most often I can't afford something when new. Heck, in my neighborhood, people often just leave their stuff out when they don't want it anymore, which is how I've gotten a bunch of my books, clothes, and etc., so I feel even less inclined to buy stuff new.

The only thing I'll pretty much always buy new (entertainment/media wise anyway) is hardware, since I'm not certain about how well its been treated/refurbished/etc.

I don't see why I should spend $18 on a new book when I can just get a used copy for $1.

As for the whole used goods market, let it ring. It's your property, sell it if you want to. Companies/corporations can piss and moan all they want, but that fact stands.

 

[spartan231490]

actually no, it's a very different thing than piracy. When you sell a used product, one item was bought from the creator, and one person has said material. In piracy, there was 1 or even 0 items purchased from the creator that turn into and hundreds or thousands of people using the material.

Though this only differentiates the scenario of everyone trying to pirate everything, from that of everyone trying to buy everything used.

You are right, in that the latter is not possible.

the latter happens all the time. I'm saying that one person gets a copy of the game and it gets copied to hundreds or thousands of pirated copies. On the other hand, a used game is only going to be bought(used) once or at most twice.

But it doesn't follow from this that an act of used buying one game is better for the industry an act of pirating the same game.

Consider this. You and I both have $60, and desire to buy three promising games.

You buy each of them used for $20 each. I pirate all three as they are released, then a week later buy the best one new for $60.

You're missing a few points. For one, most people who pirate games to "try them" don't every buy the games. For two, yes I bought all three games used, but someone had to buy all of them new. This is not necessarily true in piracy, with hacking and leaked games. Not to mention the whole dilution factor, where there is only ever one copy of a used game, and that game was paid for at some point. On the other hand, piracy creates hundreds or thousands of copies that were never paid for. These are completely incomparable.

You haven't paid a cent to the industry, I paid $60.

I paid nothing, but my games generated $180 for the industry.

Not to mention, that compared to someone who waited for Steam price drops, I tested all three and paid for the best one only, thus incentivizing the creation of more like that one, and not rewarding the ones with deceptive hype.

As I mentioned, used sales do the same thing but incentivise the creator, not just that one game.

If a person buys a used game, it is because they weren't willing to buy it for full price. In fact, used sales result in more sales for the creator, because it results in people who otherwise wouldn't have played the game doing so. Then, if they like the game, they're more likely to buy other games or sequels from that creator. There is no potential revenue being lost because those people weren't going to buy the game new anyway.

All of these can be true for pirates, but with the added benefit of not having thrown money at the redundant institution of used game stores, they can still send that to the creators too.

Except that most pirates pirate the majority or all of their games. On the other hand, most used game buyers also buy many new games. You're also ignoring the problem of dilution, which is the most dangerous. Every used game was once paid for new, this isn't even remarkably close to what happens with piracy. Do you want to go look up how many downloads the average pirated file has?

 

[Randoman01]

I used to buy old DVDs from a store a while back when I couldn't buy them at dull price. This was me wanting to buy the Simpsons.

 

[Alterego-X]

snip

You keep conflating two issues:

1. Is the common existence of used sales more constructive for the industry than the existence of piracy?

2. Is the act of buying a used game, more constructive for the industry than the act of pirating one?

It's entirely possible, that the answer is yes for the first question, and no to the second.

All other things being equal, both actions involve playing a game without paying it's creators. That the used game was once bought, only means that you are freeloading on the back of a specific person rather than the Internet. You are not "generating $180" by buying three used games, because the $180 was already spent before you bought them, you just benefit from this fact afterwards.

And that's all that an act of piracy involves as well. Yes, a digital file can be replicated thousands of times. But a pirate is only making one copy, just as the used buyer is accessing one extraneous copy.

In terms of taking personal responsibility, both individuals are freeloading on the industry, with vague expectations of long term benefit through word of mouth, etc. The only difference is that the buyer is doing it stupidly, giving money to a random third party even though an extraneous copy could be created as easily as taken from an ex-player.

Now, if you want to talk about how as a whole, piracy is a greater threat to the industry, that's n entirely different matter. Pirates and used buyers are both freeloaders, but by it's nature piracy can be more common, like you just keep pointing out.

But this is like jumpling into a debate about whether a Mexican could beat up an American, just to tell that Mexico couldn't beat up the USA in a war. True, but it doesn't really decide the discussion about the individuals' ability.

Likewise, whether an individual pirate is necessarily more immoral than an individual used game buyer, can't be decided by the overall size of piracy compared to used sales.

most pirates pirate the majority or all of their games. On the other hand, most used game buyers also buy many new games.

First of all, these statements don't even oppose each other. I definitely believe that used game buyers buy "many new games", but I think it's likely that they still buy most of their games used. And vice versa, I believe that pirates pirate "most of their games", but beyond that, I'm sure that on average they buy many new games as well.

Assuming that you have meant to say that used game buyers buy more new games than pirates: can you provide a source for that, please?

 

[Diddy_Mao]

I'll usually buy my movies new, only buying used if it's an older film that I can't find new at the same store.
Games I usually buy at launch so it's rare that I buy used. However, if I'm making a curiosity purchase of an older title I'll grab it used if I can.

CDs (Hah...look at the old man still using optical media!) are almost exclusively used. Mainly because my taste in music is becoming harder to meet.

You try finding a new copies of old 2-tone and Lookout records albums.

 

[spartan231490]

snip

You keep conflating two issues:

1. Is the common existence of used sales more constructive for the industry than the existence of piracy?

2. Is the act of buying a used game, more constructive for the industry than the act of pirating one?

It's entirely possible, that the answer is yes for the first question, and no to the second.

All other things being equal, both actions involve playing a game without paying it's creators. That the used game was once bought, only means that you are freeloading on the back of a specific person rather than the Internet. You are not "generating $180" by buying three used games, because the $180 was already spent before you bought them, you just benefit from this fact afterwards.

And that's all that an act of piracy involves as well. Yes, a digital file can be replicated thousands of times. But a pirate is only making one copy, just as the used buyer is accessing one extraneous copy.

In terms of taking personal responsibility, both individuals are freeloading on the industry, with vague expectations of long term benefit through word of mouth, etc. The only difference is that the buyer is doing it stupidly, giving money to a random third party even though an extraneous copy could be created as easily as taken from an ex-player.

Now, if you want to talk about how as a whole, piracy is a greater threat to the industry, that's n entirely different matter. Pirates and used buyers are both freeloaders, but by it's nature piracy can be more common, like you just keep pointing out.

But this is like jumpling into a debate about whether a Mexican could beat up an American, just to tell that Mexico couldn't beat up the USA in a war. True, but it doesn't really decide the discussion about the individuals' ability.

Likewise, whether an individual pirate is necessarily more immoral than an individual used game buyer, can't be decided by the overall size of piracy compared to used sales.

most pirates pirate the majority or all of their games. On the other hand, most used game buyers also buy many new games.

First of all, these statements don't even oppose each other. I definitely believe that used game buyers buy "many new games", but I think it's likely that they still buy most of their games used. And vice versa, I believe that pirates pirate "most of their games", but beyond that, I'm sure that on average they buy many new games as well.

Assuming that you have meant to say that used game buyers buy more new games than pirates: can you provide a source for that, please?

You can continue to ignore my main points if you want, but it doesn't make you right. You can ignore the facts to make your point more arguable all you want, you're still wrong. I have lost interest in discussing anything with you, thanks to your willful disregard of the facts. Believe what you want, but piracy is not comparable to used games sales, no matter how much you want to justify your illegal activity

 

[Elfgore]

A good majority of my CD and book purchases on Amazon are used . They tend to be cheaper and not a single one has been delivered to me damaged, the books have sometimes arrived well-read, but I always knew what I was getting in to. When I shopped at Gamestop, I always preferred used to new games. With the membership I got more points and a larger discount. Other than that, new. I don't very much care about the "legitimacy" of the used sales business.

 

[FPLOON]

Books: Yes (especially if I want a specific cover for said book... *looks at All You Need Is Kill*)
DVDs: Maybe (I mean, they mostly now either come from Blu-Ray Combo packs[footnote]can't get more used than that while still technically being new...[footnote]failed "inside" joke is fail...[/footnote][/footnote] and/or complete series box sets...)
Blu-rays: Never tried (Will not be surprised if I did buy some used in my future...)
Games: Uh... Let's just say "I blame GameStop" and just go from there... >.>
Music: Now, I do... (Close to 60 bucks for an apparently "rare" CD? I'll just buy it used, for crying out loud...)

Overall, I'm fine with buying used entertainment/media from a physical perspective... Digitally, I only call it "used" if it either came from a mix CD or something like that, in terms of music... Other than that, I will say that most of the things I do buy new are inadvertently done to support the creators in question... like the two times I bought SkullGirls, if you don't include the complimentary copy of SG Encore I got for PS3...

 

[Guffe]

Yes I do.
Books, CDs, Movies and Games are all things I look in different stores to compare prices and then I usually go onto the internet, Ebay and Huuto for a look.
So small things like those.

Then entertainment stuff like TVs, BluRay players and consoles to name a few, those I have yet to buy used.