Do you cheer over patriotic works hostile to your nation?

Recommended Videos

Smygskytt

New member
May 18, 2015
80
0
0
I was listening to this, and it made me feel very conflicting inside:
The song is based on a traditional Faroeish ballad, itself based on an older Danish/Norwegian one from 1781, about a battle in 1612 where Norwegian farmers defeated a group of invading Scottish mercenaries under Swedish pay.

I am Swedish, so it did make me feel very weird. Particularly so since it is full of patriotism from a time when our nations where constantly at war with each other. But Tyr certainly made an awesome metal song that I can't stop myself from singing along to.

So do you have any situations like that? For example, what does Englishmen think of Mel Gibson's propaganda epics?




Edit:
Lord Sinclair crossed the salty sea,
to Norway his course was set;
among Gudbrand's cliffs he found his grave,
where a bloody brow awaited.

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -

By Romsdal's coast he came ashore,
declaring his enmity;
with fourteen hundred men behind,
all with evil intent.

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -

They pillaged and burned, wherever they came,
all rights they trampled,
the frailty of age, it moved them not,
they scorned the weeping widow.

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -

The soldier's away on the King's campaign,
We must ourselves our land defend;
Cursed be the worthless knave,
Who'd now his blood conserve!

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -

The farmers of Vage, Lessoe and Lom,
with sharpened axes shouldered,
At Bredebojg together came,
with the Scot, they would have words.

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -

Just under the hillside lies a path,
the people there call Kringen,
The company hastened past the place,
there in shall the enemy fall.

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -

With corpses now was Kringen strewn,
the ravens ate their fill;
the blood of youth, that here was spilled,
Scottish girls bewailed.

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -

Yet stands a column at that same place,
that Norway's foes would threaten.
Woe to any Norwegian unmoved,
each time his eyes behold it.

- Up before the break of day,
they're coming across the heath. -
 

omega 616

Elite Member
May 1, 2009
5,883
1
43
Nopers.

I'm not patriotic in the LEAST! It's crazy to me that you're all proud of where you're born, like being proud to have brown hair. I don't want to go all hippy and free love but we are just humans and we shouldn't be separating ourselves by where we live, saying that people are vary by location, much like accents ... the people around you, influence who you are, that's getting very off topic though.

I live in the UK and as far as I am concerned, people can say what they like about this little island! Our royal family is pretty much a joke, our government is run by a bunch of po faced, stuck up, posh, arrogant, smug little gits, we have bad food and worse weather, we have bad teeth (apparently), we needed the big bad USA to save us from Germany ... ok, now I'm just taking the piss.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
Not overly. I'm a red-blooded American and literally everything we've done has been the greatest and most dramatic version of that thing, so I know not to take criticism too seriously. All the others are just jelly after all.
Sarcasm mostly. Love my country, but fully willing to admit faults, missteps, fuck ups and down-right evil actions.

omega 616 said:
...ok, now I'm just taking the piss.
And you guys think 'pissed' means drunk, when we Americans clearly use it meaning angry!
 

omega 616

Elite Member
May 1, 2009
5,883
1
43
Silentpony said:
Not overly. I'm a red-blooded American and literally everything we've done has been the greatest and most dramatic version of that thing, so I know not to take criticism too seriously. All the others are just jelly after all.
Sarcasm mostly. Love my country, but fully willing to admit faults, missteps, fuck ups and down-right evil actions.

omega 616 said:
...ok, now I'm just taking the piss.
And you guys think 'pissed' means drunk, when we Americans clearly use it meaning angry!
Well no, if I'm pissed then I am drunk but if I am pissed off, then I am angry and you can piss off! As I always say, "it's better to be pissed off than pissed on but getting pissed on while you're pissed off, is just taking the piss ..."
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
16,755
0
0
Depends on the quality of the work. I doubt North Korea could make a compelling story about America being horrible. Mostly due to hilarious incompetence. However, I think Japan has done a few things like that.

I love my country and would not want to live anywhere else. But that doesn't mean we're always the best. And you can certainly criticize us. Just try not to be North Korea when you do.
 

TakerFoxx

Elite Member
Jan 27, 2011
1,125
0
41
Once went to a Rammstein concert. They played "Amerika." Nobody had any problem singing along.

Nope.
 

Hawki

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 4, 2014
9,651
2,179
118
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
There's a saying I'm fond of - "patriotism is for twats." Saying "I'm proud to be a (insert nationality here)" or "doing x is downright un-(insert nationality here)" has always vexed me. I'd rather pride be reserved for personal accomplishments, and judgements of character/action be based on general expectations of a member of society/as a human being rather than as a member of a nation-state.
 

chadachada123

New member
Jan 17, 2011
2,310
0
0
I don't get why some of you are saying you "aren't patriotic" as if that's relevant. Being patriotic doesn't suddenly mean that any work that's opposed to your country is suddenly not worthy of enjoyment. That would be closed-mindedness, which often overlaps with patriotism but shouldn't be equated.

That said, I'm not particularly patriotic. I feel quite lucky to have been born in the state and country I was, but that's not the same as feeling proud, since it was out of my control to begin with.

Honestly though, I can't think of many patriotic works that outright frame the US as the bad guys. I know I wouldn't much care so long as the work itself is good.
 

Catnip1024

New member
Jan 25, 2010
328
0
0
Depends. Braveheart was a laugh, but largely because it was framed less as "the Scots vs the English" and more "that peasant dude vs the nobility" (despite the actual William Wallace being a noble, and definitely not painting his face blue). Same reason I can buy into ANZAC day, etc, in Australia - it's not against the UK, it's against the particular elite that felt throwing peasants at machine guns was a viable tactic.

Largely though, it's a case of "yeah, we were dicks at various points through history, but so were the other side"...

omega 616 said:
I'm not patriotic in the LEAST! It's crazy to me that you're all proud of where you're born, like being proud to have brown hair. I don't want to go all hippy and free love but we are just humans and we shouldn't be separating ourselves by where we live, saying that people are vary by location, much like accents ... the people around you, influence who you are, that's getting very off topic though.

I live in the UK and as far as I am concerned, people can say what they like about this little island! Our royal family is pretty much a joke, our government is run by a bunch of po faced, stuck up, posh, arrogant, smug little gits, we have bad food and worse weather, we have bad teeth (apparently), we needed the big bad USA to save us from Germany ... ok, now I'm just taking the piss.
You need to separate the people from the institution. I used to be a massive fan of the British people, on the whole attitude to life, especially when you compare to the likes of the French (rioting and striking every other week) or the Germans (far too law-abiding). Less so now, with the media's constant drive to Americanise us and get us to go crazy over every little thing.

As for being proud of where you are born? I used to think my hometown was terrible, and one of the worst places in the country. If it was on the news, it was there for a bad reason. But you go away for a bit, you appreciate what was awesome about it - the scenery was amazing, the community spirit was far better than you get in the south, the beer was cheap, the people don't whine and complain as much. There were no issues with limescale (seriously - you can send a man into space, but you can't deliver me water which doesn't clog up showerheads and kill washing machines?).

Then again, if you aren't from Yorkshire, I can appreciate that your hometown probably is terrible...

Oh, and to be picky, it's not one island, it is many islands.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
Legacy
Jul 15, 2013
4,953
6
13
Nope, well, technically a yes I guess, can't find any logic in being proud of the enclosed rock you were born on. And while growing up, i've seen what patriotism does to people. Not ever going to be a part of that. It is used as a tool by the ruling classes to rally the less free thinking types into endeavoured agendas instead of having to convey any relatable goals to gain loyalty. It only serves to seperate people, not bring them together and is seriously holding far too many of us back. This rock is responsible for many a bad decision, especially presently.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
3,676
0
0
Smygskytt said:
So do you have any situations like that? For example, what does Englishmen think of Mel Gibson's propaganda epics?
I would say most English people's response to "Fuck the English!" is usually agreement.
We usually deserve it anyway. =P

I get suspicious of people who are proud to be British. Being proud to be British is very Un-British.

So, no, I don't particularly mind if people don't like my country.
 

balladbird

Master of Lancer
Legacy
Jan 25, 2012
972
2
13
Country
United States
Gender
male
I'd be lying to say I'd been exposed to too many works hostile to my nation that I would define as "patriotic"... so I can't say for sure how close the answer I give is to reality.

Having said that, I'm an American, and reasonably happy to be one. I wouldn't use the word "proud", because as someone above said, having pride in something one was born into seems silly, but I definitely like my country, warts and all.

While I did say I've never seen an intentionally patriotic work that decried my country, I do enjoy seeing various depictions of American characters in non-american content. I tend to gravitate toward enjoy those characters, whether they're heroic or villainous, stereotyped and shallow or deep and complex. It's helpful to be able to see one's self in other's eyes, and all that, and if you can't laugh at yourself, you kinda forfeit the right to laugh at others.

So, in short: I don't "cheer" about it, but I enjoy seeing Americans through the lens of other cultures, regardless where they fall on the "David Eage to Bryan Hawk" spectrum.
 

mardocOz

The Doc is in...
Oct 22, 2014
64
0
0
I've never understood why someone should be proud over their parent's decision on where to conceive and give birth.

I'd rather people be proud of their achievements. Their morals. Their actions. Things that people have an element of control over, rather than a decision that was made for them in their absence.

Am I lucky to have been born where I was? Sure. But by being proud of being born where I was it implies I am proud of my dumb luck. And luck is nothing to be proud of. What's important is that I make the most of the opportunities that are given to me. I want my actions to define who I am, not my nationalities (I'm a dual national; English by birth, Australian by choice).
 

Sceadu

New member
Jul 16, 2016
10
0
0
Do you cheer a lot in general? Seriously, and not to undermine the OP, but... the whole idea of "cheering" for a movie or tv show or song is weird to me.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
3,647
0
0
Yes, because Australia continues to do incredibly shitty things and the small, but vocal minority of pie-eyed nationalist retards deserve a punch in the face. But given that violence rarely helps change opinions without total destruction of the enemy, propagating arguments that undermine the nationalist tone is more than beneficial.

Australia doesn't need more nationalism. It never needed more nationalism. Though I would happily accept nationalism to evangelical god worship from politicians and people on the street. About the only thing we should be proud of on a national level in recent history? No Prime Minister has served a full term in office since Howard.

It at least shows that public sentiments do still topple leaders well before new elections and that Australians are not so quickly going to confuse nationalism with populist politicians. Who are seemingly all hated by the public ... at least I would say that if Queenlanders could fight the propensity NOT to elect homophobes and xenophobes every fucking election.

It's like Queenslanders purposefully do this shit so that people have to pay them attention each and everytime we might form minority government. Literally everyother state has marriage equality support espoused by politicians at state and federal levels. Queensland. Sole state opposed at both the state and federal levels.
 

Dragonlayer

Aka Corporal Yakob
Dec 5, 2013
971
0
0
The Patriot is one of my guilty pleasure films, even though it turns my countrymen into the Das Reich division: I find that the nationalist hostility of films gets a pass depending on how competent it portrays the demonized nation, which is why I hate so much Hollywood WW2 garbage.
 

Queen Michael

has read 4,010 manga books
Jun 9, 2009
10,400
0
0
Not patriotic in the least, so I can enjoy songs like that as much as I want to. Like this song, made for the Olympics four years ago: