Do you consider drug use or drug dealers morally and legally wrong?

[Particulate]

I don't consider recreational drug use morally wrong. It's your body, do what you want. Personally I have enjoyed cannabis. HOWEVER most drug dealers are the scum of the earth. They're literally making money by selling poison or naturally growing plants.

In my opinion the way around this is for everyone that intends to enjoy narcotics to simply control their own supply. Just in the same way that you'd plant some carrots in your back yard why not plant some marijuana or poppies? And if that's not an option setting up a small indoor hydroponics system with grow lamps really isn't that difficult.

Not that I would know about such things...

 

[Jeran Korak]

I know for a fact that certain drugs are harmless, or at least so weak that the long-term effects are no worse than having a caffeine habit or similar psychological dependency.

However, this is only in very small doses. The human body intakes a surprising number of psychogenic and euphoric substances by itself. They're just such incredibly tiny doses we don't even notice the effects. As I stated in a previous thread, cannabis has medicinal uses, but only in doses less than one eighth of a single recreational cannabis joint. So, I?ve no objection to properly synthesised drugs being used for medical benefits, but anything else is just abuse and destructive.

 

[Devil's Due]

Weed? Not really bad. Honestly if I had the choice to be on the road with someone who was stoned out of their mind or shit faced drunk I would choose the stoned person.

Above that, it's not really dangerous.

This is untrue, as I've taken the liberty to research through dozens of articles collected around the world by the DailyScience website (and a few other websites, such as ERSJOURNALS) that finds and links breakthroughs and research discoveries. Cannabis can be deadly and dangerous, depending on how it's used and mixed with what. Don't believe me? Read all of the facts.

Spoiler: Never trust the Government websites alone, never trust cannabis420lifepeoplez websites either. Trust independent, multiple studies by research teams across the globe. Click here to read.

Cannabis Use and Fatal Car Crashes - TRUE



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110623085953.htm

------------------------------------------------------
Cannabis Use and Cancer - TRUE: SMOKING. FALSE: INJESTING



(Cannabis Use and Risk of Lung Cancer)
http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280.full?sid=55ff48fe-ccaf-4469-b1dc-9ec4f86fc407

(Marijuana Damages DNA And May Cause Cancer, New Test Reveals)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090615095940.htm

(Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071217110328.htm

------------------------------------------------------
Cannabis and Physcotic Illnesses - TRUE



(Cannabis Could Increase Risk of Psychotic Illness by 40 Percent)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070731125526.htm

(Cannabis Damages Young Brains More Than Originally Thought, Study Finds)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217115834.htm

(Cannabis Use Precedes the Onset of Psychotic Symptoms in Young People, Study Finds)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110301184056.htm

(Marijuana Use Takes Toll On Adolescent Brain Function, Research Finds)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081014111156.htm

------------------------------------------------------
Cannabis Use and Sexual Dysfunction - CONFLICTED



(Cannabis Use May Worsen Sexual Dysfunction, Rat Study Suggests)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110222122212.htm

------------------------------------------------------
Cannabis Use and "Gateway Drug" - FALSE



(Risk of Marijuana's 'Gateway Effect' Overblown, New Research Shows)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100902073507.htm

------------------------------------------------------
Cannabis Useage Afffect's Multiple Sclerosis Users Negatively - TRUE



(Smoking Marijuana Impairs Cognitive Function In MS Patients, Study Shows)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080213160851.htm

(Marijuana Use May Hurt Intellectual Skills in Multiple Sclerosis Patients)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110328161840.htm

Anything that shows Conflicted I will be willing to budge on if presented with resources that are showing statistics, multiple studies, etc. The ones labeled True are because of all the studies (Any of the one's that have only one link is because I've lost the others. For both pro and con Cannabis studies). So what do we know for a fact about Cannabis? It is not a Gateway drug, that's the only fact shown so far in its favor. The rest is debated hotly, or proven that it's harmful.

As for the thread: Unfortunately, as much as I want to be understanding and caring, and I slowly have been, I refuse to be friends or even notice the person if they're a user. I'm sorry, but my morals prevent me from stumping low. If they're clean and against it and trying to teach others about the dangers, then I actually gain quite a lot of respect for them! But if they're still using, or encourage it, I'm sorry, but I feel nothing for you. Like I said, I can't conflict my morals, no wonder my ex gave me the nickname "Hawk" that I use now, since I fly high and never desire to go any lower than necessary.

EDIT:

Drugs are bad. Don't do drugs. Don't sell drugs. Don't make drugs. I can't really comment on how hard things were for you but drugs are still bad. Just take the easy way out. Get all A's and a scholarship like I'm currently on the path to doing.

Best response in this thread.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Of course it's "legally wrong" since most drugs we're talking about are illegal, which we may or may not agree with the status of.

As for morally wrong, it depends. Are you a mother who needs to raise her kids, but instead you're smoking crack? Are you some kid with his friends in a cabin smoking pot? Are you stealing from a house to pay off your dealer? Are you effecting anyone but yourself? The answers to questions like these will tell you, in my opinion.

The actual business of the whole thing, drug dealing, doesn't really help the social or economic stability anywhere it goes, just simply because any business beyond the scope of the law involves filthy people from the get-go. I would say the same about Pornography or violent video games if they suddenly became illegal or unregulated.

 

[Ham_authority95]

I'm talking soft and hard drugs and just to make this thread more interesting I'll tell you a story from my younger days of dealing in cocaine and crack. It was 1990 and crack-cocaine epidemic finally started to calm down, this is when I first got into the horrible game of buying large quantities of coke and cooking it into crack. Then selling it on the street everyday for 3 years.


Now this may sound very evil hearted but you must know that its hard to make a living in the state that I was in and I never got someone hooked, I just sold to people who were already worthless and addicted. So usually I could get a kilo of coke for 20k and then cut it then cook it, making it worth around 40k, now it was really shitty crack but crackheads don't care the just want their fix. Now it would take awhile to sell 40k worth of crack because edventually my consumers would run out of money after pawning ever last thing they had and new costumers would show up. On average it would take around a month to sell all the shit but damn I was making at least 2k a day, which is small time for most dealers.

But anyways let me cut this story short, 3 years later I got raided and got caught with 3 kilos of cocaine and spent 7 years in prison. So what are you opinions on drugs?

Also, good job that you've come so clean about this. Normally people with a past like yours wouldn't dare speak of it for fear of being hated by everyone.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Weed? Not really bad. Honestly if I had the choice to be on the road with someone who was stoned out of their mind or shit faced drunk I would choose the stoned person.

Above that, it's not really dangerous.

This is untrue, as I've taken the liberty to research through dozens of articles collected around the world by the DailyScience website (and a few other websites, such as ERSJOURNALS) that finds and links breakthroughs and research discoveries. Cannabis can be deadly and dangerous, depending on how it's used and mixed with what. Don't believe me? Read all of the facts.

Well, obviously if you're taking something that slows your reflexes you are going to be dangerous on the road. But between being drunk on the road and stoned on the road, Being drunk is far more dangerous.

Most of these links are rather misleading because of the sheer ridiculous things you have to do to achieve these affects. Let me first start by enlightening the ones that are semi-true.

Can you become addicted to it? Yes. I have a friend who is addicted to it. But due to his life situations and the amount he smokes, it's no small wonder. He's a rather simple fellow who lives in a pretty abusive house, and weed is his only outlet that's affordable.

But you have a better chance of becoming addicted to things like gaming and porn, so saying something like "Weed is addictive" is rather redundant, and it's not a chemical addiction as something like Heroin or Nicotine is.

As for Weed causing cancer? Inhaling smoke is dangerous. We don't need science to tell us that. This is because of the high amount of Tar in Marijuana which makes cancer a little bit more prevalent than smoking cigarettes.

But that is not the only way to infest marijuana. You can make Weed extract by cooking it in one way or another, and that completely gets rid of the risks of cancer by smoke inhalation.
(just noticed that you said injesting is not addictive after I typed this, so I'll just leave it in)

As for the Sexual one? I can tell you first hand that that is 100% not true. In fact some might argue the opposite. I can honestly find no links refuting that (unless you want me to bring up the post I had with another Escapists about masturbation while under the influence of marijuana), because this is one of the most ludacris things I've heard in terms of attacking it.

Now the one that I found the most problem with was the one about damaging young people's brains.

Look at the sentence in the first paragraph

The new study, published in Neurobiology of Disease, suggests that daily consumption of cannabis in teens can cause depression and anxiety, and have an irreversible long-term effect on the brain.

Daily Consumption? That is the point where you have gone far past addiction. This is dependency. Not to mention the price of being able to smoke every single day, but this is the same thing as saying if you eat McDonald's everyday you will get fat. It's a study that in order for it to be true requires someone to dedicate their life to it. You'll be hard pressed to find someone who consumes it daily.

As for the thread: Unfortunately, as much as I want to be understanding and caring, and I slowly have been, I refuse to be friends or even notice the person if they're a user. I'm sorry, but my morals prevent me from stumping low. If they're clean and against it and trying to teach others about the dangers, then I actually gain quite a lot of respect for them! But if they're still using, or encourage it, I'm sorry, but I feel nothing for you. Like I said, I can't conflict my morals, no wonder my ex gave me the nickname "Hawk" that I use now, since I fly high and never desire to go any lower than necessary.

Honestly, this doesn't say anything good about you. Judging a person based on his personal activities? Considering them something less than you just for smoking a bit of grass?

I'm not going to be the kind of person that says "Don't knock it till you've tried it", But I will say you have a rather skewed view on life in general if you think that something like social drinking (I say alcohol here because it's much worse of a habit than smoking) somehow makes you less of a person.

You have the same mindset as people who are determined to demonize gaming for extremely similar reasons.

 

[Devil's Due]

Honestly, this doesn't say anything good about you. Judging a person based on his personal activities? Considering them something less than you just for smoking a bit of grass?

I'm not going to be the kind of person that says "Don't knock it till you've tried it", But I will say you have a rather skewed view on life in general if you think that something like social drinking (I say alcohol here because it's much worse of a habit than smoking) somehow makes you less of a person.

It does not matter what you view about me, as I am the one who makes informed decisions and knows that doing something stupid is something that I take pains to avoid. Does it happen? Of course! But why would I go out of my way to do something that I know for a fact is bad for your health, your future careers, and social view just because... people on the internet told me it's good? I'm sorry, JoesshittyOs, but I look at facts before I do these things. All of your responses to my facts were simply your or your friends' experiences. You gave me no facts, sources, anything to back up your claims that my argument is wrong.

(I will be honest, however, and say that I don't have a clue about the sexual dysfunction case, as I've never heard of it before, but I've been giving conflicting studies that make it still possible to be true. But just because some users don't experience it does not mean that it doesn't happen. If more studies and reports are given that prove it wrong than of studies that suggest it's right, then I'll agree with it.)

You have the same mindset as people who are determined to demonize gaming for extremely similar reasons.

They fear the unknown, anything new to society. Cannabis, however, is not new and has documented facts, hundreds of thousands of willing patients in studies over decades across the world to prove that it is harmful. I do not see how you could possibly consider me the same mindset. I look for the facts, and all I'm seeing is a product that people are so little informed about and consume weekly, trying to force others to take it with them.

Look, I have to give you credit for sticking to your guns here and using logic, but if you want to convince people, you need reliable evidence. Reliable facts. Reliable statistics. You have given me nothing to go on here. If you cannot give documented evidence by facts, statistics, whatnot from independent research universities across the globe to counter my argument, then we cannot have a proper discussion. First person accounts of friends or families on their view from usage does not hold up that well against studies with hundreds, or even thousands, that prove otherwise.

Give me straight, reliable info, then you'll get that proper argument. However, if not, then we could both move on and avoid a pointless bickering over drugs on the internet. Whichever choice you pick, I'll look forward to.

 

[Riccan]

Legally wrong? I would be arrested if I was caught, so yes. Morally wrong? That is moving into subjectivity and thus would be skewed horribly. I wouldn't do it because I would feel pathetic for doing it. Does that make me think others are weak for doing it? I think that they are weakened by there choice, but I'm not going to treat them differently from any other person.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Honestly, this doesn't say anything good about you. Judging a person based on his personal activities? Considering them something less than you just for smoking a bit of grass?

I'm not going to be the kind of person that says "Don't knock it till you've tried it", But I will say you have a rather skewed view on life in general if you think that something like social drinking (I say alcohol here because it's much worse of a habit than smoking) somehow makes you less of a person.

It does not matter what you view about me, as I am the one who makes informed decisions and knows that doing something stupid is something that I take pains to avoid. Does it happen? Of course! But why would I go out of my way to do something that I know for a fact is bad for your health, your future careers, and social view just because... people on the internet told me it's good? I'm sorry, JoesshittyOs, but I look at facts before I do these things. All of your responses to my facts were simply your or your friends' experiences. You gave me no facts, sources, anything to back up your claims that my argument is wrong.

Because there was nothing to dispute.

You seem like a smart person, so you should know that people can find a way to stretch facts. I was just pointing out that some of these studies go through un-realistic obstacles to achieve the results they were looking for. Yes, smoking daily is a bad idea. For something that alters your state of mind significantly, doing it every day replaces your reality.

They fear the unknown, anything new to society. Cannabis, however, is not new and has documented facts, hundreds of thousands of willing patients in studies over decades across the world to prove that it is harmful. I do not see how you could possibly consider me the same mindset. I look for the facts, and all I'm seeing is a product that people are so little informed about and consume weekly, trying to force others to take it with them.

Yet they go through the same cases we go through. Have you not seen the multiple studies of gaming negatively affecting kids?

My Dad used to be in the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency). He's given me the same facts that you have given me, and is very much against drug use. But in terms of things like Heroin and Cocaine, Marijuana is much less like these two in cases where the user is the one who can dictate how he uses the substance. It's the person who is determining how he controls the drug(in most cases), as opposed to the drug controlling the person.

Look, I have to give you credit for sticking to your guns here and using logic, but if you want to convince people, you need reliable evidence. Reliable facts. Reliable statistics. You have given me nothing to go on here. If you cannot give documented evidence by facts, statistics, whatnot from independent research universities across the globe to counter my argument, then we cannot have a proper discussion. First person accounts of friends or families on their view from usage does not hold up that well against studies with hundreds, or even thousands, that prove otherwise.

I think I've covered that there really isn't much to dispute from your facts. Yes, I was giving first hand accounts to the things that were still being disputed because I really doubt I'd be able to find counter arguments from trustworthy sources.

Give me straight, reliable info, then you'll get that proper argument. However, if not, then we could both move on and avoid a pointless bickering over drugs on the internet. Whichever choice you pick, I'll look forward to.

You have a point.

Honestly, I have nothing except to say that in terms of how Marijuana has been demonized over the past few decades, it's really not been bad.