Do you think i'm being selfish?

[werepossum]

Saskwach, I was thinking we should just, you know, IMPORT those guys from third world countries over here. Solves all problems, and we can pick and choose the best people to bring over. Besides, humanity isn't even close to being in danger, it doesn't matter.

As for werepossum- I don't see myself ever valuing someone more just because we have some of the same genes, and if I ever do, I won't be the same person; so I don't mind screwing him over by getting a vasectomy. Adoption or nothing for me I think.

But how can you choose the best people? We need more engineers and scientists and not more convenience store clerks - but are engineers and scientists necessarily the best people? Perhaps the newly immigrated convenience store clerk is an incredible person who brightens everyone's day, whilst the newly immigrated engineer is a talentless hack who will drift from job to job contributing nothing worthwhile. Selecting the best people is a noble goal, but it involves a great deal of quantifying qualities which are inherently nonlinear. The deadbeat Haitian welfare mom may squeeze out the next George Washington Carver - people are inherently chaotic and non-linear.

As for adoption, certainly you'll love your adopted child every bit as much as a child of your blood. I don't think I've ever met anyone who adopted and later regretted it, and rescuing orphans from grinding poverty is certainly a blessed action. My points were simply that you may later change your mind and that genetic hearing loss isn't necessarily a disqualification from being a parent.

 

[Auron555]

If you don't think you are up to the task, that's good enough reason. It's not like, say, riding a rollercoaster where if you do or you don't everything's okay; this is a child, so no, I don't think you are selfish.

 

[Saskwach]

Saskwach, I was thinking we should just, you know, IMPORT those guys from third world countries over here. Solves all problems, and we can pick and choose the best people to bring over. Besides, humanity isn't even close to being in danger, it doesn't matter.

As for werepossum- I don't see myself ever valuing someone more just because we have some of the same genes, and if I ever do, I won't be the same person; so I don't mind screwing him over by getting a vasectomy. Adoption or nothing for me I think.

That's basically what Western countries are doing. However, as werepossum has stated, the "best" people are impossible to discover. Even if we could get them, we'd be sapping the talent out of the Third World, thus keeping it the Third World.

You boss may be a nice lady and all, but her level of thought-policing here is just absurd. Everyone is sort of giving her the benefit of the doubt as maybe having actual reasons for saying what she said, but quite frankly, I think what makes you "selfish" in her eyes is simply refusing to agree with her and validate her life-choices.

Selfishness is prioritizing your needs over the needs of the people around you (implied: to an unreasonable degree.) Not wanting kids is not selfish. Demanding that other people uniformly express the wish to mate and reproduce in an appropriate fashion in order to prop up one's own certainty in the rightness of one's worldview - that's selfish.

Sadly, I think this was exactly WC's boss's reasoning. I hate when people get all high and mighty about their personal lifestyle choices.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

My boss has 3 children(2 boys and a girl)and they all work where i work, well 1 of them works at a different branch of where i work. I'm good friends with all three of them. One of them doesn't want kids just like me and we'll always be talking about it, he can't stand kids just like me and can't see himself having them because of his hatred of them and i agree with that. I don't want to have kids and then grow up slowly hating them for ruining my life because i didn't want them in the first place. I agree with Angel.Slayer, i'm only 19 myself i still have a long way to go yet and my views may change, but then again they may not, right now though i don't want kids.

 

[Girlysprite]

Hell, just imagine what kind of reactions a girl gets when she says she doesn't want children. Some people see them as freaks.

By the way, the world population and all is a nice argument on paper, but doesn't even matter the smallest bit. Let's be honest, how many people do you know that decided on having children or not based on the world population?

 

[Khedive Rex]

You're not being selfish. Children are a huge responsibility and its easy enough to do it wrong.

Those tiny impressionable brains ... I know if I ever had a kid the temptation would always be there to die his hair blue and teach him to enjoy scaring tourists on beaches while wearing buddhist monk robes and shouting in tounges.

... or something ...

 

[bmgibben]

I hate it how people demonize being selfish. Being selfish is the only way to stay alive. Every breath you take robs some microorganism of the O2 they needed to go on living. Killing it, and its genetic line which could have evolved into a super species the likes of which will never be seen.

There is no such thing as being self-less. Everyone has a motive, or they have gone insane and wish death. Altruism is giving now to gain favor for later. It may seem simple and crass, but that's how life works.

Now, for children, I think they are highly overrated. A child is a "potential" person. A living, breathing, consuming, hoarding organism that one day, "may" do some good for your species. Or it could be genetically predisposed or raised to be a huge hindrance to our race or all life on this planet. I hate how children are put on a pedestal far above every other adult. They have contributed nothing, and may never still, yet they are regarded higher and with more respect than most adults who have contributed much to others' happiness. While children should deserve the same respect as adults as being a living being, I think they are overrated.

Now, as to the point of having children. People should do whatever it is they want. If you are like me, and at 22 years old think that children are more of a burden and will only dampen your own personal life goals, then you should definitely not try to have or raise one. Yet someday I may feel like trying to pass on my ideals and values and add to the future of society. So that may change. But don't let anyone guilt you into doing something because it is "selfish". Do whatever it is YOU want to do in life and surround yourself with people who respect your choices. It is your only way to be happy.

 

[Easykill]

Hell, just imagine what kind of reactions a girl gets when she says she doesn't want children. Some people see them as freaks.

By the way, the world population and all is a nice argument on paper, but doesn't even matter the smallest bit. Let's be honest, how many people do you know that decided on having children or not based on the world population?

Me....

And I was just referring to high IQ and talented people, but what you say makes sense. Both of you. And my counter point was that I wouldn't care if I changed my mind, werepossum.

 

[werepossum]

Hell, just imagine what kind of reactions a girl gets when she says she doesn't want children. Some people see them as freaks.

I guess it doesn't seem that odd to me because I have an aunt who never wanted to have children and never changed her mind. She's now in her early sixties and never regretted her decision, to my knowledge. Most teenagers with that feeling do change their mind later, but not all.

And she doesn't hate kids, she spoiled me. She just never wanted her own.

I also have a male cousin who refused to have children because of a supposedly genetic heart condition that killed his older brother's oldest child at eighteen. All his nieces and nephews are healthy and beautiful, though. I guess you never know.

 

[Girlysprite]

I also have a male cousin who refused to have children because of a supposedly genetic heart condition that killed his older brother's oldest child at eighteen. All his nieces and nephews are healthy and beautiful, though. I guess you never know.

I can relate to that actually. My family (father side mainly) has a rich tradition of depression related mental problems. It actually makes me consider if I *really* want children or not. I got off lightly in the depression department, but I have seen what it can do in families.
Maybe I'll adopt.

Yeah and some people will think I'm a bit crazy for that reasoning, but what if my family had a heart disease of which my kids would have 20-50% to get, which can be fatal and can not be traced?

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Yeah and some people will think I'm a bit crazy for that reasoning, but what if my family had a heart disease of which my kids would have 20-50% to get, which can be fatal and can not be traced?

well it could be traced if it's that high of a percentage. it's just they don't know what they're looking for

also with genetic disorders they have a good chance to skip generations and have a lot to do with what the child's grandparents went thru and where they get the trait from, a mark on your x chromosome from your mother gives you a different disease than the same mark given by your father.

 

[kelnadine]

I don't think it's selfish at all, actually...not by your reasoning.

I went through the same problem. All my friends love babies and want to be mothers. I don't. Not at all. I don't like kids much these days, and quite frankly, I -am- too selfish to be a parent. I am not willing to give up being my own person for eighteen years (and probably longer) and have my life revolve around a kid. On the flip side, maybe that makes me a little less selfish, because I'm aware that I wouldn't be a good parent and am saving a kid from having to grow up with me.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

I don't think it's selfish at all, actually...not by your reasoning.

I went through the same problem. All my friends love babies and want to be mothers. I don't. Not at all. I don't like kids much these days, and quite frankly, I -am- too selfish to be a parent. I am not willing to give up being my own person for eighteen years (and probably longer) and have my life revolve around a kid. On the flip side, maybe that makes me a little less selfish, because I'm aware that I wouldn't be a good parent and am saving a kid from having to grow up with me.

Thats how i feel as well tbh, and todays world isn't exactly the greatest place to be bringing up a child. There's peer pressure, exams, alcohol, drugs, falling in with the wrong crowd, just alot of outside influences that are alot more stronger than anything i could teach my kids, and i'm not willing to sacrifice 18 or so years of my life either and then they might not turn out as good as i had brought them up, in the end it would have been all for nothing.
Sometimes you have to be "selfish" to be unselfish really. I maybe be depriving a child of a life because of my "selfish" needs but then if i were to have a child and bring them up badly then i would be equally as "selfish", its a lose-lose situation.

 

[werepossum]

Sometimes you have to be "selfish" to be unselfish really. I maybe be depriving a child of a life because of my "selfish" needs but then if i were to have a child and bring them up badly then i would be equally as "selfish", its a lose-lose situation.

You can't be depriving a child of life just by not having her. There can be an argument on abortion, but if there is no pregnancy there is nothing but two unrelated gametes that pass (or don't) in the night. Metaphysically no one really knows what's going on, but I think it's safe to say that if a child's soul exists before conception, that soul is G-d's responsibility and not yours.

You don't seem like you'd be a bad parent, but if you don't want children for heaven's sake don't have them. All the "go forth and multiply" stuff is great, but the actual need for that is pretty much over.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

Trust me i've had loads of people pressure me over little things before and i haven't relented, i wouldn't ever relent to having a child just because its the "right" thing or for someone else, i will stay true to what i believe in and i will uphold my morals and views on the subject, no one elses, not that i'm not grateful for everything all you guys have said though, i'm more than grateful to know that(mainly)i'm not acting "selfish".

 

[kelnadine]

I've had people guilt me into thinking I -should- have kids. Namely, my own parents who want a grandchild. I'm my mother's only biological kid, so if I don't have children, she gets no grandchildren. That does make me feel incredibly guilty and I've yet to find a way to deal with that, but I've been told that having kids just for that reason is a very bad idea.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I don't think you're being selfish, but I feel the same way about kids. Babies don't like me, I'm still too immature to take care of myself effectively (pshaw, I don't need new clothes, there are videogames to buy!) and I'm TERRIFIED of how any kid raised by me may turn out.

 

[Girlysprite]

I've had people guilt me into thinking I -should- have kids. Namely, my own parents who want a grandchild. I'm my mother's only biological kid, so if I don't have children, she gets no grandchildren. That does make me feel incredibly guilty and I've yet to find a way to deal with that, but I've been told that having kids just for that reason is a very bad idea.

I know what it is like. At this moment I'm the only kid that is sane enough, has a house, a stable relationship and enough money (security) to get a kid. My mom isn't so bad, but I see that hopeful glitter in my dads eyes every time...

 

[sideburnsid]

no your not selfish there are so many good things you can do in your life that dont involve having children. what would be selfish is having children when you dont really want them as you will never be able to fully comit to being a good parent to your children. i myself never want to have children as i doubt i will ever be able to be a good father and it would be selfish of me to then have them.