Do you think the Gaming Industries attitudes toward Gender issues are Top down or bottom up

[Silvanus]

You repeat "generalization" over and over again in order to marginalize my position without actually refuting it, but then you say because I used to the word Marxist my ideas must be summarily dismissed. Is generalization only bad when I do it? Is the weather nice up there on your high horse?

To be honest, if you genuinely believe that Marxism is having a significant impact on western video game media, then that's pretty absurd, and should indeed be easily dismissed.

I don't think there is a SJW conspiracy, only a SJW cult. You can't apply the slippery slope argument to condemnations of SJW ideology and compare it to racism because SJW is not a race. SJW is a self-applied label these people use to promote a specific worldview so yes, I can use their own labels to describe them and no, criticizing their ideology does not make me a bigot.

It's far, far more often not self-applied. It is far more often used as a pejorative than a self-descriptor.

The example of Alex Lifshitz is useful not as proof of any kind of conspiracy but merely as an example of the SJW mentality. You say he's a random nutbar and his attitude is not common, but I don't see any indication that is true. You spend any amount of time on tumblr and Alex seems pretty tame in comparison. I don't buy the "it's a few bad apples" excuse because the SJW community seems to specifically attract nutbars while actively policing and excluding anyone who is sane or rational.

The burden of proof rests on you to provide evidence of this. A single example is just that; it does not indicate anything widespread, anything meaningful, in itself. If your claim is that such an example is representative, the onus is on you to support that position.

Its highly disingenuous for these people to come into the gaming world, start pointing fingers and handing out moral condemnations, and then have the temerity to claim victimhood and oppression when gamers tell them to get lost.

Many gamers themselves have attracted the label of "SJW". More, I would estimate, than people from outside the hobby. The notion that it is outsiders damaging the hobby is far too convenient, far too baseless.

 

[IndieForever]

Somewhat amusingly I was in the pub with someone from Rockstar North a couple of days ago. I made him buy me a lot drinks and cough up for the basket of chips because they have more money than us. I wondered if I was dining out on the tears of abandoned, victimised non-comformists and then I thought... nah, nice chips.

"So... this social justice thing. You guys paying any attention to it?", I ventured.
"What? Oh, yeah, that. Definitely. We'll find a way to take the piss out of it in GTA 6."
"Hmm. By 2035 everyone will have forgotten about it though."
He pauses. "Good point."
"And.. you could have been put out of business by more forward thinking, inclusive studios."
At this point I think his mouthful of red wine and chips was in danger of becoming visible once more.
"Who? EA? Ubi?"
"Hah! Us," I said.
"But.. you don't have.. you know.. people in your games."
"We're working on a spaceship that self-identifies as a lesbian owl," I offered.

Whilst I am paraphrasing, that was the gist of it. We're too old to really get excited about 'causes' these days and we just want to make good games. I don't want to alienate or annoy potential customers and neither does R* (unless you're famous for just being famous and then the gloves are off I understand).

Perhaps we're dinosaurs but this whole thing is just a non-event to the people in the industry I know. Although... I don't know Phil Fish, which made up for the fact that the Cabernet Savignon was not a particularly good choice offering an overly acidic aftertaste and was far too rich in tanin flavours for my liking.

Snip..

As an aside, I have to say if I must read about this, I much prefer a 'real world' argument which you offer, rather than a Cambridge Speakers-esque series of line-by-line quotes analysed in excruciating detail for Debating Club brownie points and gold stars. Even if I don't agree with everything you say, it is a well-expressed set of opinions and not an absurd exercise in reductionism.

More humour and fewer Latin words are the order of the day

 

[spartan231490]

Dude, it's a real-life issue about something as complicated as gender. Do you really think you can say anything meaningful about it in two words? It's neither top down nor bottom up, and at the same time, it's both. Saying anything meaningful about this would require an essay.

 

[Sithmorack]

Dude, it's a real-life issue about something as complicated as gender. Do you really think you can say anything meaningful about it in two words? It's neither top down nor bottom up, and at the same time, it's both. Saying anything meaningful about this would require an essay.

Have you seen how much info is on here now? You could make an essay from this.

 

[veloper]

No money, no big games. The MONEY is coming bottom UP. There's the answer for the OP.